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#2890681 - 12/23/18 05:07 PM Paddle ability
surferx Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 471
Trying to design or buy a new board for Bigger east coast days. Post storm, strong offshore well OH hollow steep
Beach breaks with lots of water moving. Heavy full wetsuit. Daily board for lighter wetsuit and under head high is like 32 liters 5'11, 19.5x 2.44. Not cutting it on these bigger days. Current step up is too thin and has a narrow nose. Looking for something that above all, paddles and let's you into waves as early as possible before "air drops" or super late become necessary.
Torn between something short and thicker/wider for steep drops or something longer for trying to "get in early".
So what really makes a board an easier board to paddle? Length? Width? Or thickness? Will a shorter wider thicker board paddle better or as well as something longer and narrower? Or is length always needed for paddle ability?

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#2890717 - 12/23/18 08:11 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
Duffy Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 04/27/16
Posts: 5374
Loc: Your moms house
The may sound a bit out there but Ive found that quads and twin fins catch waves easier than thrusters or single fins....

Also I think shape, rocker, foil, bottom contours are at least as important as volume.

And distribution of volume is also important.

I have a 29 liter 58 that catches waves better than the 33 liter 68 I just sold.
_________________________
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp

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#2890729 - 12/23/18 09:10 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
Maz Offline
Nep status
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Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 950
Loc: Innzid
Sounds like a Ghost or PigDog to me. Get more volume than you think you need.

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#2890731 - 12/23/18 09:13 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
retodd Offline
Duke status
***

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 15552
Depends on your body type too
Are you tall and thin?
Stocky?

Rusty slayer and dhd sweet spot are 2 that come to mind for what u need

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#2890732 - 12/23/18 09:16 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: Maz]
ciscojaws Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 2063
Loc: Beast Coast
Originally Posted By: Maz
Sounds like a Ghost or PigDog to me. Get more volume than you think you need.

What he said.
_________________________
We'll take the road that leads down to the waterside.

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#2890733 - 12/23/18 09:16 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
Oceanslide Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 8690
Loc: Oceanside, CA
IMO, just adding volume doesn't solve your problem, although it definitely helps.
I ordered a board recently with a similar outcome in mind...slightly longer than some of
my stubbies, but not much, width/thickness to ensure more volume than most but
with foiled out rails, and a widened and snubbed nose as I don't love hpsb narrow anything.
We'll see how it goes, but that was my approach.
_________________________
"Surfing reminds us of how good life is."
Oceansliding

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#2890747 - 12/23/18 10:50 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
Oeste858 Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
*

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 153
Loc: San Diego, CA
Who did you order yours from? I've been looking for something similar. The last couple years, I have been riding mostly short & wide alt boards (Mandala, Tomo, keel fish). I'm 6', 180lbs, and most of my boards are 5'5"-5'9". But after a trip through the spin cycle trying to get back out under a 10-wave set during last week's massive swell, I really need a legit step-up for real waves like that. Since we only get a handful of days each year in SoCal, I've been looking out for something on CL... maybe something like the Rusty Slayer as I like the idea of a longer effective rail line for getting in early enough, but with a shorter length (than a traditional step up) for maneuverability. Anyone ridden one on bigger days and would recommend it? Or I may opt for more length with a 6'8" R. Blackbird model as I've heard these catch everything nice & early and nothing but positive reviews.

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#2890754 - 12/23/18 11:05 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: Oeste858]
Duffy Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 04/27/16
Posts: 5374
Loc: Your moms house
Originally Posted By: Oeste858
Who did you order yours from? I've been looking for something similar. The last couple years, I have been riding mostly short & wide alt boards (Mandala, Tomo, keel fish). I'm 6', 180lbs, and most of my boards are 5'5"-5'9". But after a trip through the spin cycle trying to get back out under a 10-wave set during last week's massive swell, I really need a legit step-up for real waves like that. Since we only get a handful of days each year in SoCal, I've been looking out for something on CL... maybe something like the Rusty Slayer as I like the idea of a longer effective rail line for getting in early enough, but with a shorter length (than a traditional step up) for maneuverability. Anyone ridden one on bigger days and would recommend it? Or I may opt for more length with a 6'8" R. Blackbird model as I've heard these catch everything nice & early and nothing but positive reviews.


Give the FCD F-Rocket a look....
_________________________
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp

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#2890756 - 12/23/18 11:10 PM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
Oeste858 Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
*

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 153
Loc: San Diego, CA
surferx-
Like Duffy said, distribution of volume is key: I've found that my more retro board shapes with volume (width x thickness) under the chest (aka wide point forward) really help in paddling power. I think rocker is a factor too, but I'll defer to others on how significant. Low entry rocker seems to paddle better to me. Length (or at least a longer rail line) will paddle more efficiently than short & wide, catch waves early, and ideally avoid the need for late drops. Many of my more "rectangular" boards have plenty of volume, but are not great paddlers. Take a look at those prone paddle boards (not SUP) used to race between Oahu to Molokai. They are all long (10ft.+) and fairly skinny.
I'm thinking 6'8"-10" would make me feel more comfortable paddling when it's bigger and there's a lot of water moving around. Plus, turns get drawn out when it's OH- double OH.
Would be curious to hear what you decide on. Keep us posted.

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#2890767 - 12/24/18 12:07 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
dirtandrib Offline
Grom
*

Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 106
Loc: NC
I have ridden two boards in those conditions for the same application. Lynn Shell shaped version of a Super Pig Dog (61x19.75x2.5)glassed strong by Gale Force Glassing and a Stretch 2x4 with heavier glass and thicker (2x19x2.5). Both have close to same volume. Wide point forward on Shell Shaped PigDog and at midpoint on 2x4. More overall rocker in 2x4.

The Shell Shape paddled well in the conditions you described. Slightly better than 2x4. Not at all as agile and quick as the 2x4. The Shell shape offered slightly more glide. Rails were slightly less foiled and so engaged into the face better than the width might suggest. 2x4 is like a much better paddling shortboard but not like a needly chip step up.

I would say the Shell Shape PigDog is designed for paddling in and making the drop with the ability to knife the rail if necessary but also with the help to get int with the offshores. The rocker and tail outline seems to very gunny where you are holding your line in the fast, intense nature of our post frontal days.

The 2x4 has more rocker though relatively lower entry rocker. Again more agile.

I think both designs are applicable to our post frontal days your describe. It depends on how much shortboard feel and capacities you want.

There is a good bit of design work going on with local guys for these niche designs. Lynn has a new take on it with wide point not as forward. Others (josh Peterson) have designs that more more toward the quad egg outline. I saw in Redbull video of the guys in Ireland riding these style of designs in their slabs that looked even to have more width upfront and low entry. As you know these days are pretty slabby with a difficult wind that leaves your dropping in almost blind sometimes so it seems Ireland would have similar challenges to address. Made me curious.

I also think how quick and nimble you are plays a significant role. Brett Barley is very quick and spry so short Pig dogs are his call. If you are slower and not so agile with your feet and body mechanics I think taking some elements from revisions of this forward wide point and foam thickness would be sensible. At least for me the board needs to fit my abilities and play to my strengths while minimizing my weaknesses not only apply to the conditions.

Trying some local East Coast Shapers in the Outer Banks might be a good way to go. I think there will be some more of these designs for just the conditions you describe by local shapers who are supplying the most local chargers of different ages and approaches.

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#2890795 - 12/24/18 06:29 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
ciscojaws Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 2063
Loc: Beast Coast
Check out the Portal Gun by Jordan Brazie.
https://valaricsurfboards.com/portalgun
_________________________
We'll take the road that leads down to the waterside.

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#2890797 - 12/24/18 07:38 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
nightfly Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 2721
I'm looking at a Pig Dog for these conditions. My go to board is a 5'6 and I'm looking at about a 5'10 Pig Dog for winter Noreaster kind of waves.

I've also got a 6'8 Aloha that's probably 20 years old that I keep around for really big days. It's a typical circa 2000 shortboard step up, 18 3/4 wide and about a 2 1/4 thick but the volume goes to the rail and it feels like the 2 3/8 thick boards I typically ride. This was before they wrote volumes on boards so I have no idea how much it is. I'd guess 30-32 liters compared to my usual 28.

Gets ridden once every few years and the glide is refreshing but the thinner, narrower nose and excess nose rocker seem kind of insane after riding short/wide boards for so long. I'm often tempted to cut 6 or 8 inches off the nose. But when it's bombing, it does the job and doesn't cost me anything to keep around. Gets in easy, feels very controlled on big bombing waves but doesn't fit tight curves so well. Better for big rolling waves than short punchy ones hence the desire for something like a Pig Dog.

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#2890803 - 12/24/18 08:02 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
VaB Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 2483
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA


Edited by VaB (12/24/18 08:07 AM)

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#2890805 - 12/24/18 08:19 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
acnjusa Offline
Michael Peterson status
*

Registered: 11/10/15
Posts: 2374
i was watching the ever competent locals surf their 5/4's and 5/6's while wearing a 5Mil wetsuit complete w/gloves
and boots and they all got the same ride. caught the wave, turned, turned again, flopped and fell.

they dont get that the extra suit and water within and its resultant weight MUST be compensated for.

Volume is good.

i'd tell them....if they even said hello....but they dont and are not interested in discussing what i have learned
in over 50yrs of shortboarding......so.....I use the issue to procur more waves.

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#2890808 - 12/24/18 08:29 AM Re: Paddle ability [Re: surferx]
rts265 Offline
Miki Dora status
***

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 3596
Ive been riding fish and alternative shapes. Like someone said, get my ass kicked when real swell hits. Tried a bunch of boards from shapers of my fish and whatnot. I finally just got a hold of a local shaper that surfs the area told him what boards I surf and that I need a winter board.

Contact your local shaper is what Im saying

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