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#2896423 - 01/10/19 01:12 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 11315
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
A lot of people have degrees and don’t get paid much

Go to any university town and observe all of the poor adjuncts with PHDs

Only in govt do you get automatic raises for things like this


You don't get an automatic raise for having an advanced degree. You may come in at a higher pay level if you have an advanced degree but that is negotiated. Isn't that true in the private sector as well? People with advanced degrees are in a better position to negotiate a higher wage. People with advanced degrees make more money no matter in what sector.

Is the problem that the government provides a pension and healthcare or is it that the private sector doesn't? I can't see every small business being able to afford this but many large companies certainly could. Provide healthcare for life for your career workers or buy back your stock? Give your CEO a 10 million dollar bonus? If the government can afford trillions and trillions of dollars in foreign wars certainly it can afford to take care of its public servants? (I'm not talking about politicians)



I’m not really sure what we’re arguing about

I’m saying many people who work in govt make more than their private sector counterparts, especially when adjusted for risk, but some don’t, especially higher level people in elite fields

I don’t blame individuals for taking a good deal that is available to them

But I also think people should admit when they have a good deal

If working in govt was not a good deal, I think you would see there being difficulties in filling govt positions, which seems pretty rare

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#2896425 - 01/10/19 01:19 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1716
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
A lot of people have degrees and don’t get paid much

Go to any university town and observe all of the poor adjuncts with PHDs

Only in govt do you get automatic raises for things like this


You don't get an automatic raise for having an advanced degree. You may come in at a higher pay level if you have an advanced degree but that is negotiated. Isn't that true in the private sector as well? People with advanced degrees are in a better position to negotiate a higher wage. People with advanced degrees make more money no matter in what sector.

Is the problem that the government provides a pension and healthcare or is it that the private sector doesn't? I can't see every small business being able to afford this but many large companies certainly could. Provide healthcare for life for your career workers or buy back your stock? Give your CEO a 10 million dollar bonus? If the government can afford trillions and trillions of dollars in foreign wars certainly it can afford to take care of its public servants? (I'm not talking about politicians)



I’m not really sure what we’re arguing about

I’m saying many people who work in govt make more than their private sector counterparts, especially when adjusted for risk, but some don’t, especially higher level people in elite fields

I don’t blame individuals for taking a good deal that is available to them

But I also think people should admit when they have a good deal

If working in govt was not a good deal, I think you would see there being difficulties in filling govt positions, which seems pretty rare


I agree with you for the most part. I don't see a lot of government workers claiming they have a bad deal. They know what they signed up for. The reason I stepped into the conversation was to provide some insight against the knee jerk right wing standard that government employees are lazy and waste of taxpayer money.

In a down economy there usually isn't a hard time filling government positions. In this economy there is actually has been difficulty for the federal government to find well qualified applicants. That is because again, they can make more money in the private sector.

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#2896430 - 01/10/19 01:35 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: the janitor]
the janitor Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 9495
Loc: north of the bridge
Originally Posted By: the janitor
The VA is a very difficult agency to deal with. The standards of care vary a lot depending upon location and in general I think it is both dramatically underfunded/understaffed and undermanaged. The scandals that keep emerging are a shameful catalog of our treatment of Vets when the cameras aren't on.


I neglected the "how to fix it" portion of the event:

1. Require Congress to adequately fund the VA very shortly after we enter into new military engagements. RIght now it seems like we are relatively nimble at sending troops wherever needed - which is good - but horrible at doing the downstream math to figure out how many new patients the VA will need to care for and with what types of injuries.

2. Leadership and administrative accountability (ie firing some people). There need to be serious consequences for the crap some of these folks get away with. There are great people at the VA, but there are also a bunch of lemons in management roles that need to be expunged.

3. Increase the voucher system for private care. Depending upon location, the services Vets may need might not be available - or at least not any time soon. This is BS and amounts to severely rationed or non-existent care

4. Fcuking fund hard core research on TBIs. The amount we don't know in this realm is huge and the amount of Vets suffering from the serious consequences are large.

5. Destigmatize seeking help for PTSD - which needs to start in the military.

6. Crack some fcuking skulls when it comes to MST in the military and adequately fund treatment for this at the VA.

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#2896431 - 01/10/19 01:36 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: sizzld1]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 17368
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Ok. Show us a link to where starting salaries for school teachers are $80k in your municipality. Good luck.


Just hit the link I shared and looked at my children's district. The site doesn't give if the person is full time, an aid or how many years served.

The lowest person listed is $30.00 ???
The Mid point of all (over 200) employees listed is $91,756.00
The High that isn't a Principal or administrator is $113,000
Lower school Principals are $125,000
The BA: $152,000
High School Principal: $157,000
Superintendent: $157,500


Sizz, I believe you're in NJ too. Do the same for your district. You can search by district on the right. Then you can sort by salary.

Again, I'm not complaining that they make this much..........just saying, don't complain that they're not making enough. They sure as hell have better benefits than I or most of you do, have summers and breaks off too.

Edit. Just noticed if you click a teachers name you can get all the particulars on that individual to boot.
_________________________
“This is a bad day for the news media. Let’s not kid ourselves,” Toobin said on CNN. “The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and they’re willing to lie to do it.”

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#2896433 - 01/10/19 01:39 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 54350
Loc: HB, CA
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Something something Autoprax frames


Huh?

Your view of government and government workers is polluted by the the fact that your mother was one of the good ones and are projecting her to the rest of the government.
_________________________
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

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#2896434 - 01/10/19 01:41 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 17368
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Hows this one. Girl's gym teacher in my kids district: $113,260 One of the most highly paid people in the entire district.


Salary
$113,260


Experience District
29


Experience New Jersey
30

Primary Job
Health & Physical Education

Experience Total
30

FTE
1.00

Subcategory
General ed

Certificate
Standard certificate

Highly Qualified
Doesn't need to be highly qualified

Teaching Route
Traditional
_________________________
“This is a bad day for the news media. Let’s not kid ourselves,” Toobin said on CNN. “The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and they’re willing to lie to do it.”

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#2896435 - 01/10/19 01:43 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
**

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 13033
Loc: in the bathroom
Is that starting salary?
_________________________
Road To Nowhere


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#2896437 - 01/10/19 01:44 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: manbearpig]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 17368
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Is that starting salary?


See prior post for all the stats for my district.
_________________________
“This is a bad day for the news media. Let’s not kid ourselves,” Toobin said on CNN. “The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and they’re willing to lie to do it.”

Top
#2896438 - 01/10/19 01:45 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: ifallalot]
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
**

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 13033
Loc: in the bathroom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Something something Autoprax frames


Huh?

Your view of government and government workers is polluted by the the fact that your mother was one of the good ones and are projecting her to the rest of the government.

Or maybe he has more experience with individuals in government jobs than you because of that, but keep framing things to be convenient for your views/bias shrug
_________________________
Road To Nowhere


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#2896439 - 01/10/19 01:47 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: manbearpig]
GWS Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 42607
Loc: done
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit


Californian government workers get priced out of neighborhood in California by people who picked more lucrative career track:

WAAAAAH. WAAAAAH. SUMBUDDY CALL WAMBALAMPS.

SAKWAMENTO TAKSEZ ME

CALL WAMBALAMPS!!11111!!!!!!!




dancing

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#2896440 - 01/10/19 01:47 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
**

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 13649
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Ok. Show us a link to where starting salaries for school teachers are $80k in your municipality. Good luck.


Just hit the link I shared and looked at my children's district. The site doesn't give if the person is full time, an aid or how many years served.

The lowest person listed is $30.00 ???
The Mid point of all (over 200) employees listed is $91,756.00
The High that isn't a Principal or administrator is $113,000
Lower school Principals are $125,000
The BA: $152,000
High School Principal: $157,000
Superintendent: $157,500


Sizz, I believe you're in NJ too. Do the same for your district. You can search by district on the right. Then you can sort by salary.

Again, I'm not complaining that they make this much..........just saying, don't complain that they're not making enough. They sure as hell have better benefits than I or most of you do, have summers and breaks off too.

Edit. Just noticed if you click a teachers name you can get all the particulars on that individual to boot.


Link?

In CA, they tend to share compensation figures that include benefits.
_________________________
Bock you

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#2896444 - 01/10/19 01:55 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: ifallalot]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1716
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Something something Autoprax frames


Huh?

Your view of government and government workers is polluted by the the fact that your mother was one of the good ones and are projecting her to the rest of the government.


That would be true if I said all government workers were great and there is no waste in the government. That's not what I'm saying. I'm providing evidence that the government is not all bad. Also my mother isn't the only government worker I know and I know a lot of people in the private sector too. I have perspective and experience not bias.

I'm trying to provide an accurate picture based on fact not one based on right wing dogma.

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#2896445 - 01/10/19 01:58 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
**

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 13033
Loc: in the bathroom
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Is that starting salary?


See prior post for all the stats for my district.

Your link is no good and rest is unclear.

Are those starting salaries or are they not? It’s a simple question. From the looks of things they are not starting salaries and you’re trying to compare apples to oranges.
_________________________
Road To Nowhere


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#2896448 - 01/10/19 01:59 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GWS]
Sharkbiscuit Online   content
Phil Edwards status
**

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 6574
Loc: Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit


Californian government workers get priced out of neighborhood in California by people who picked more lucrative career track:

WAAAAAH. WAAAAAH. SUMBUDDY CALL WAMBALAMPS.

SAKWAMENTO TAKSEZ ME

CALL WAMBALAMPS!!11111!!!!!!!




dancing


cheers

110% on point and relevant, and part of the government expense cycle no doubt. Been happening for ages in New York as well. You need your vest and shotgun to get from your squalor cell to squad car in Staten Island or the Bronx, and technically live in the city, or if you have a kid and want that child to not grow up with Mike Tyson or 50 Cent or the Wu Tang Clan, are providing special services to someone in one of the boroughs for a mailing address and living out in Rockland County or someplace halfway between Buffalo and Montreal.

Do you want to pay less in taxes, or take a property value hit by having affordable housing for public sector employees?

Unless you live in Bayleiwa Headolua or Spring-a-Lago New Jersey, both of which break just like Boxdoor, and the mailman is making seven figures.

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#2896451 - 01/10/19 02:02 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1716
Loc: cold
I'm also trying to dispel old myths. Like government workers have such amazing retirement packages (not true anymore at least for fed employees), promotion isn't based on merit, they can't get fired, and on and on. Those are all the things right wing media tells you to create an enemy. They are trying to divert your attention from what the real cost drivers of our debt are.

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