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#2896384 - 01/10/19 12:06 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
Just anecdotes but I’ve seen coworkers come in and out of Fed govt

Fed govt pays less for people in my line of work but provides advantages in other ways (job security, better hrs, more time off, better benefits)

For some the trade off is worth it, others not

Seems like there is no much problem in filling most govt positions so I don’t think the deal is too bad

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#2896387 - 01/10/19 12:08 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: heelnipstr]
GWS Offline
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Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 42582
Loc: Ilklandia
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.

https://www.sokanu.com/careers/elementary-school-teacher/salary/new-jersey/#by-seniority


That's fairly dismal. But in addition to that number, don't they get full medical, dental as well as retirement benefits?


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#2896388 - 01/10/19 12:08 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: FecalFace]
BillyOcean Offline
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
There’s no consequence for failure


Ethics.

Put in charge people who know what that means.

Not people who hate government and Trumptards.


Ethics are great but being able to be fired is a strong motivator

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#2896389 - 01/10/19 12:08 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Here is a link for NJ Teachers. You can look up any teacher you want in any district you want: https://php.app.com/agent/educationstaff/search


There are a lot of salaries under 80k in there. I thought starting was 80? Do you feel teachers should be paid less?

Dear old mom doesn't feel there is any "plight." I just personally feel that her contribution to society was worth a lot more than 50k a year. Forget society even, how about what she did for the economy, working to get people off benefits and into meaningful jobs? My example was to illustrate that if you don't know a hard working underpaid public employee it is easy to point the finger. I have friends in the private sector and it seems they are on Facebook all day. How is that?

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#2896391 - 01/10/19 12:10 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
There’s no consequence for failure


Ethics.

Put in charge people who know what that means.

Not people who hate government and Trumptards.


Ethics are great but being able to be fired is a strong motivator


Another myth: public sector employees can't get fired. Dude, this isn't 1980.

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#2896392 - 01/10/19 12:13 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GWS]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.

https://www.sokanu.com/careers/elementary-school-teacher/salary/new-jersey/#by-seniority


That's fairly dismal. But doesn't that include full medical, dental as well as retirement benefits?


What’s the present value of a 20 yr + retirement with 80% pension and top health care benefits?

That said, I don’t really have a problem with paying teachers well

They provide a very important service and it is a hard job

I have more of an issue with back office govt clerks claiming they have it rough

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#2896393 - 01/10/19 12:13 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: StuAzole]
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
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Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 6305
Loc: Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.


If teachers started at $80k, more people would want to be teachers.



$80k to be Rowan County Clerk. $80k goes a looooooooooooooooooong way halfway between Lexington, KY and Huntington, WV. I would have the sickest property with deer to drop all over the place on that.



Other than the year of "general office experience" and "driver's license", I had these qualifications after my Sophomore year of High School. Can't drive and didn't have a credit card when I was 15.

Based on the accounting classes I took in 10th and 11th grade, I think the average 16 year old in a high school accounting class in Rowan County could do this job.

It's 2019. Touch-typing and MS Office as requirements....right up there with opposable thumbs and ability to respirate orally and nasally.

https://www.betterteam.com/county-clerk-job-description

Quote:
County Clerk Requirements:
High School Diploma or GED.
One year work experience as a municipal or County Clerk, or one year general office experience.
Proficient computer and typing skills.
Basic accounting skills.
Proficient with MS Office Word, Outlook and Excel, and familiar with data entry.
Excellent verbal and written communication skills.
Strong people skills.
Valid driver’s license.
Completion of online application.
Ability to maintain confidentiality and security of information.
Bondable to handle money.

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#2896395 - 01/10/19 12:18 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Here is a link for NJ Teachers. You can look up any teacher you want in any district you want: https://php.app.com/agent/educationstaff/search


Marven Atlantic Atlantic City Sovereign Avenue School Mathematics Grades 5 - 8 $101,307

I bet Marven has more than just a B.A. I bet most of the educators on that list have more than a B.A. If Marven has a wife and one child and student loans do you think he is living the high life? On that salary with student loans could he save 20% to buy a house in your town? Is he even middle class? You think this is a real waste of your tax dollars?

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#2896397 - 01/10/19 12:19 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Here is a link for NJ Teachers. You can look up any teacher you want in any district you want: https://php.app.com/agent/educationstaff/search


There are a lot of salaries under 80k in there. I thought starting was 80? Do you feel teachers should be paid less?

Dear old mom doesn't feel there is any "plight." I just personally feel that her contribution to society was worth a lot more than 50k a year. Forget society even, how about what she did for the economy, working to get people off benefits and into meaningful jobs? My example was to illustrate that if you don't know a hard working underpaid public employee it is easy to point the finger. I have friends in the private sector and it seems they are on Facebook all day. How is that?



I agree with you generally on this

The world is not a fair place

Pay does not always reflect value to society

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#2896403 - 01/10/19 12:36 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
A lot of people have degrees and don’t get paid much

Go to any university town and observe all of the poor adjuncts with PHDs

Only in govt do you get automatic raises for things like this

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#2896409 - 01/10/19 12:48 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: heelnipstr]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16073
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.

https://www.sokanu.com/careers/elementary-school-teacher/salary/new-jersey/#by-seniority


Its municipality by municipality.
_________________________
“This is a bad day for the news media. Let’s not kid ourselves,” Toobin said on CNN. “The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and they’re willing to lie to do it.”

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#2896411 - 01/10/19 12:48 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GWS]
heelnipstr Online   content
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 4455
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.

https://www.sokanu.com/careers/elementary-school-teacher/salary/new-jersey/#by-seniority


That's fairly dismal. But in addition to that number, don't they get full medical, dental as well as retirement benefits?



That's $4K more than the national average. I don't know about NJ but I did get dental(wisdom teeth finally removed) and my medical was taken out of my salary(not that much I think). Even starting w/ a MEd my salary was much less than $50k 20 something years ago in the great state of CA. bawling
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If you see a Buddha in the road, ask which gender pronouns they prefer and then kill them.

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#2896413 - 01/10/19 12:51 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
sizzld1 Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 5125
Loc: Here
Ok. Show us a link to where starting salaries for school teachers are $80k in your municipality. Good luck.
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#2896416 - 01/10/19 12:55 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
A lot of people have degrees and don’t get paid much

Go to any university town and observe all of the poor adjuncts with PHDs

Only in govt do you get automatic raises for things like this


You don't get an automatic raise for having an advanced degree. You may come in at a higher pay level if you have an advanced degree but that is negotiated. Isn't that true in the private sector as well? People with advanced degrees are in a better position to negotiate a higher wage. People with advanced degrees make more money no matter in what sector.

Is the problem that the government provides a pension and healthcare or is it that the private sector doesn't? I can't see every small business being able to afford this but many large companies certainly could. Provide healthcare for life for your career workers or buy back your stock? Give your CEO a 10 million dollar bonus? If the government can afford trillions and trillions of dollars in foreign wars certainly it can afford to take care of its public servants? (I'm not talking about politicians)

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#2896421 - 01/10/19 01:01 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: sizzld1]
heelnipstr Online   content
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 4455
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Ok. Show us a link to where starting salaries for school teachers are $80k in your municipality. Good luck.


And one public school district is going to pay $30K more for a starting position than another. LOL If true the haves and have nots are having their way. No starting teacher is worth $30k than another. They are all just fodder for little devils to learn to survive or be eaten.
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If you see a Buddha in the road, ask which gender pronouns they prefer and then kill them.

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