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#2896346 - 01/10/19 10:44 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
They are doing better than the average joe because they all have college degrees and many have masters and doctorates. They have lower pay but good health care so a health issue won't bankrupt them like the average joe.

My mother worked for the State of NH for almost 40 years. Her salary in those 40 years went from around 30k to 50k. (that's an f-ing joke) She's the hardest working most dedicated person I know. She helped the disabled find jobs. If people are working they are less likely to need welfare. She has a BA from Catholic University in D.C. and a masters from Boston University.

Again, can the government do things better? Yes. There is all sorts of waste and laziness in the private sector as well. The same companies that end up paying no taxes.

The scapegoating of public employees is shameful.


My mother was a social worker too

Also had a masters degree

She made the same

Thats what social workers make

She didnt work for the govt so got shit benefits though

Most govt workers get a better deal than they would get in private sector

Its only the top slice where private sector comp is better


This just isn't true.


https://fee.org/articles/a-look-at-pay-f...r-counterparts/

a 2017 Congressional Budget Office study compared the compensation of full-time, year-round private sector workers to non-postal, civilian, federal workers in 2011 to 2015. It accounted for education, occupation, work experience, geographic location, employer size, and various demographic characteristics. The study found that:

Federal workers received an average of 17 percent more total compensation than comparable private sector workers.
Across various education levels, federal employee compensation premiums ranged from a low of 18 percent for workers with a professional degree or doctorate to a high of 53 percent for workers with a high school diploma or less:

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#2896349 - 01/10/19 10:50 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Did you read the whole article? You omitted 90% of it and only quoted the line that supported your position.

https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/201...o-finds/137324/

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#2896351 - 01/10/19 10:57 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: Sharkbiscuit]
trevorbc Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
I see two problems.

1. People want shit and don't want to pay.
Try taking away the average 65+ Trump voters' Medicare Part D. You think there was a backlash to drug testing benefits recipients, try alcohol and tobacco testing them. LOLZ.

I know people who think we should have Australia/Canada/UK care, and their taxes shouldn't go up. Middle/Upper Middle class, pay Federal Income Tax, not just payroll tax, and think this is somehow not going to cost them more if they don't get sick. They think there is that much money in "waste". Even the DoD only finds about $100B/year.

2. Open-ended benefits packages.
Entire families getting health care for life because one person worked in government...I get it, that was part of their benefits packages, but pensions and health care costs sound like a really, really big unfunded liability problem.

Places like California, well you have Silicon Valley minting money, and in California's case, the politicians actually tax to pay for the spending. I applaud their arithmetic, but their voters howl.

Decrepit shit piles like Illinois, well...yeah.


Entire families don't get healthcare for life because one person worked in the government. Can you provide your source for this? First of all, per Obamacare, dependents can only be on your health insurance until 26. Federal employees get like three months of health insurance when they retire. Many would be of medicare age after that expires?

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#2896352 - 01/10/19 10:59 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
BillyOcean Offline
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9988
What part of what I quoted do you disagree with?

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#2896358 - 01/10/19 11:15 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16073
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

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#2896360 - 01/10/19 11:19 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
What part of what I quoted do you disagree with?


The article's conclusion:

"The pay gap between federal and private sector employees grew between 2011 and 2015 for those with high school diplomas or less when compared with 2005 to 2010, while federal workers with a masters degree saw less average total compensation from 2011 to 2015 compared with their counterparts in the private sector."

So what that means is that the very entry level federal worker (someone picking up trash and other blue collar jobs) does do better than their private sector counter part however everyone else does worse. Not just the very top as you stated. Most federal jobs are white collar.

The study also factored in all of the federal employees that are part of the old system. As soon as that group retires the gap will be even greater.

Anyway you have your deep state clerk agenda so go with it I guess. Keep hating and resenting your fellow american's that make very average salaries providing you 1st world services while trillions are spent on endless wars and CEOs make a 1000x what their employees make.

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#2896362 - 01/10/19 11:22 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Can you provide the source showing that starting pay for teachers and firemen in your town is over 80k? I don't buy it.

That said, if is is true, at least for teachers, I would say your town is doing well. You don't think teachers should be well compensated? What job is worth 80k to you?

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#2896371 - 01/10/19 11:40 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
Sharkbiscuit Offline
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Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 6305
Loc: Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: trevorbc

Entire families don't get healthcare for life because one person worked in the government. Can you provide your source for this? First of all, per Obamacare, dependents can only be on your health insurance until 26. Federal employees get like three months of health insurance when they retire. Many would be of medicare age after that expires?


Quote:

Your FEHB coverage (Federal Employees Health Benefits) is an important benefit while youre working, and if you meet the eligibility rules, you and your spouse can keep the benefit for the rest of your lives in retirement. Bonus: the share of cost remains the same, too.


https://www.fedsmith.com/2018/05/06/keep-fehb-health-insurance-retire/

Sorry the wording implied adult children and grandchildren were getting their benefits for life.

The most successful person I know (business owner with beautiful house, beautiful boat, beautiful 911...) is on his wife's (gov) health insurance, and he seems to think that benefits package is worth its weight in unobtanium.
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"But the German was right all the same. Bravo the German! But Germans want strangling all the same. Though they are so good at science and learning they must be strangled." - Kolya Kassotkin

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#2896372 - 01/10/19 11:43 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
the janitor Online   mad
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Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 9246
Loc: north of the bridge
The VA is a very difficult agency to deal with. The standards of care vary a lot depending upon location and in general I think it is both dramatically underfunded/understaffed and undermanaged. The scandals that keep emerging are a shameful catalog of our treatment of Vets when the cameras aren't on.

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#2896377 - 01/10/19 11:49 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
FecalFace Offline
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Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 29964
Loc: down der by the harbor
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Theres no consequence for failure


Ethics.

Put in charge people who know what that means.

Not people who hate government and Trumptards.
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#2896379 - 01/10/19 11:55 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16073
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Can you provide the source showing that starting pay for teachers and firemen in your town is over 80k? I don't buy it.

That said, if is is true, at least for teachers, I would say your town is doing well. You don't think teachers should be well compensated? What job is worth 80k to you?



Like I said, I'm not complaining.......but don't complain to me about the plight of dear old mom working in New Hampshire.
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

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#2896380 - 01/10/19 11:55 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
FecalFace Offline
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Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 29964
Loc: down der by the harbor
In most cases underfunding is the problem.

The services that work well, work because they're funded properly (Pentagon).
_________________________
"Your a dick." - Greg Griffin

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#2896381 - 01/10/19 11:57 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16073
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Here is a link for NJ Teachers. You can look up any teacher you want in any district you want: https://php.app.com/agent/educationstaff/search
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

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#2896382 - 01/10/19 11:59 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
heelnipstr Online   content
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 4455
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.

https://www.sokanu.com/careers/elementary-school-teacher/salary/new-jersey/#by-seniority


Edited by heelnipstr (01/10/19 12:03 PM)
Edit Reason: link
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#2896383 - 01/10/19 12:01 PM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: heelnipstr]
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
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Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 12354
Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile a starting salary for a fireman in my town is over $80,000 plus incredible benefits. They work 24 on 48 off. School teachers have the same starting pay. Perhaps the only municipal workers in my town at the lower end of things would be entry level clerks and public works employees. I'm not complaining but cry me a freaking river.


Liar.
Starting teachers in NJ earn $50k a year.


If teachers started at $80k, more people would want to be teachers.
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