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#2896284 - 01/10/19 03:24 AM Fixing Government Services
afoaf Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 21166
I know some will have a harsher view of the effectiveness of government agencies
such as DMV, IRS, DoE, and Homeland Security.

What are the fundamental problems with government run services in your experience?

How could the system be improved?

I'm asking from the point of view that privatization and profit motive don't always ensure
a better experience at a lower total cost to the taxpayer?


I, for one, think government retirement and benefit packages are obscene.
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The action is over on the foil forum.

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#2896291 - 01/10/19 06:20 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16071
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
In the private sector hiring, pay and advancement are generally based on performance rather than time on the job.......therefore many government employees are just taking up space and doing the time and don't give a shit.
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

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#2896306 - 01/10/19 08:13 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9978
Theres no consequence for failure

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#2896315 - 01/10/19 09:20 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
Duffy Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 04/27/16
Posts: 5376
Loc: Your moms house
Government employees should not be unionized.
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No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

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#2896316 - 01/10/19 09:34 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: afoaf
I know some will have a harsher view of the effectiveness of government agencies
such as DMV, IRS, DoE, and Homeland Security.

What are the fundamental problems with government run services in your experience?

How could the system be improved?

I'm asking from the point of view that privatization and profit motive don't always ensure
a better experience at a lower total cost to the taxpayer?


I, for one, think government retirement and benefit packages are obscene.



Can you provide a specific example of an obscene retirement and benefit package?

In the old days federal employees had much better benefits. In the last 20 years things have changed greatly. Federal employees have a TSP account which is the same as a 401k which the government matches up to 5%. As far as I know this is very similar to the private sector. Then there is a pension which is paltry. Again, nothing like what federal employees received 20 years ago.

Pay during service is much lower than the same job in the private sector. You do realize the government employs doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, right? All paid far below what their private sector counterparts are paid. So they get a paltry pension and decent health insurance instead? Advancement in the federal government is performance based so not sure where Gromy gets that it doesn't. Fox news?

Federal employees are an easy target when people don't know what the F they are talking about. Are there lazy fed employees? Definitely. Are there lazy private sector employees? Definitely. I have friends that work in both. I had a friend that worked for AIG and got 80k a year bonuses and played golf all day.

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#2896317 - 01/10/19 09:48 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16071
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
trevor, what you describe does not jive with what I see with my friends who have government jobs.......some of whom have recently retired or are near retirement at very young ages.
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

Top
#2896318 - 01/10/19 09:52 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
I think it does jive. If they are near retirement age they may have been in the old "postal service" system of benefits which were quite generous. (some would say fair as salaries were lower than in private sector) I'm not sure exactly what year the new system took place but government retirement packages are no where near what they once were.

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#2896319 - 01/10/19 09:54 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 16071
Loc: West of the Atlantic. East of...
Most of the people I know are at the municipal government level but a few at the state and federal level. Are they killing it like guys on wall street of course not but they are all doing considerably better than the average joe when you factor the benefits and pensions.
_________________________
This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.

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#2896324 - 01/10/19 10:13 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
They are doing better than the average joe because they all have college degrees and many have masters and doctorates. They have lower pay but good health care so a health issue won't bankrupt them like the average joe.

My mother worked for the State of NH for almost 40 years. Her salary in those 40 years went from around 30k to 50k. (that's an f-ing joke) She's the hardest working most dedicated person I know. She helped the disabled find jobs. If people are working they are less likely to need welfare. She has a BA from Catholic University in D.C. and a masters from Boston University.

Again, can the government do things better? Yes. There is all sorts of waste and laziness in the private sector as well. The same companies that end up paying no taxes.

The scapegoating of public employees is shameful.

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#2896327 - 01/10/19 10:17 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9978
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: afoaf
I know some will have a harsher view of the effectiveness of government agencies
such as DMV, IRS, DoE, and Homeland Security.

What are the fundamental problems with government run services in your experience?

How could the system be improved?

I'm asking from the point of view that privatization and profit motive don't always ensure
a better experience at a lower total cost to the taxpayer?


I, for one, think government retirement and benefit packages are obscene.



Can you provide a specific example of an obscene retirement and benefit package?

In the old days federal employees had much better benefits. In the last 20 years things have changed greatly. Federal employees have a TSP account which is the same as a 401k which the government matches up to 5%. As far as I know this is very similar to the private sector. Then there is a pension which is paltry. Again, nothing like what federal employees received 20 years ago.

Pay during service is much lower than the same job in the private sector. You do realize the government employs doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, right? All paid far below what their private sector counterparts are paid. So they get a paltry pension and decent health insurance instead? Advancement in the federal government is performance based so not sure where Gromy gets that it doesn't. Fox news?

Federal employees are an easy target when people don't know what the F they are talking about. Are there lazy fed employees? Definitely. Are there lazy private sector employees? Definitely. I have friends that work in both. I had a friend that worked for AIG and got 80k a year bonuses and played golf all day.


Annuities also have lower returns than most other investments

Risk adjusted return

Fed workers have effectively guaranteed employment for life

So they should be paid less

But theyre really not when you take into account benefits

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#2896330 - 01/10/19 10:21 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
BillyOcean Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 9978
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
They are doing better than the average joe because they all have college degrees and many have masters and doctorates. They have lower pay but good health care so a health issue won't bankrupt them like the average joe.

My mother worked for the State of NH for almost 40 years. Her salary in those 40 years went from around 30k to 50k. (that's an f-ing joke) She's the hardest working most dedicated person I know. She helped the disabled find jobs. If people are working they are less likely to need welfare. She has a BA from Catholic University in D.C. and a masters from Boston University.

Again, can the government do things better? Yes. There is all sorts of waste and laziness in the private sector as well. The same companies that end up paying no taxes.

The scapegoating of public employees is shameful.


My mother was a social worker too

Also had a masters degree

She made the same

Thats what social workers make

She didnt work for the govt so got shit benefits though

Most govt workers get a better deal than they would get in private sector

Its only the top slice where private sector comp is better

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#2896334 - 01/10/19 10:27 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: trevorbc]
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 52971
Loc: HB, CA
Something something Autoprax frames
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#2896338 - 01/10/19 10:34 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: BillyOcean]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
They are doing better than the average joe because they all have college degrees and many have masters and doctorates. They have lower pay but good health care so a health issue won't bankrupt them like the average joe.

My mother worked for the State of NH for almost 40 years. Her salary in those 40 years went from around 30k to 50k. (that's an f-ing joke) She's the hardest working most dedicated person I know. She helped the disabled find jobs. If people are working they are less likely to need welfare. She has a BA from Catholic University in D.C. and a masters from Boston University.

Again, can the government do things better? Yes. There is all sorts of waste and laziness in the private sector as well. The same companies that end up paying no taxes.

The scapegoating of public employees is shameful.


My mother was a social worker too

Also had a masters degree

She made the same

Thats what social workers make

She didnt work for the govt so got shit benefits though

Most govt workers get a better deal than they would get in private sector

Its only the top slice where private sector comp is better


This just isn't true.

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#2896339 - 01/10/19 10:34 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: ifallalot]
trevorbc Offline
Billy Hamilton status
**

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1549
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Something something Autoprax frames


Huh?

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#2896344 - 01/10/19 10:41 AM Re: Fixing Government Services [Re: afoaf]
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
**

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 6304
Loc: Jacksonville Beach
I see two problems.

1. People want shit and don't want to pay.
Try taking away the average 65+ Trump voters' Medicare Part D. You think there was a backlash to drug testing benefits recipients, try alcohol and tobacco testing them. LOLZ.

I know people who think we should have Australia/Canada/UK care, and their taxes shouldn't go up. Middle/Upper Middle class, pay Federal Income Tax, not just payroll tax, and think this is somehow not going to cost them more if they don't get sick. They think there is that much money in "waste". Even the DoD only finds about $100B/year.

2. Open-ended benefits packages.
Entire families getting health care for life because one person worked in government...I get it, that was part of their benefits packages, but pensions and health care costs sound like a really, really big unfunded liability problem.

Places like California, well you have Silicon Valley minting money, and in California's case, the politicians actually tax to pay for the spending. I applaud their arithmetic, but their voters howl.

Decrepit shit piles like Illinois, well...yeah.
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"But the German was right all the same. Bravo the German! But Germans want strangling all the same. Though they are so good at science and learning they must be strangled." - Kolya Kassotkin

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