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Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Caelho] #2895378
01/08/19 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: Caelho
...So even though it was glued they did not pop out, due to the fiberglass capping it, just cracked all around the box and wobbling around taking in buckets of water. It probably still has water in it even though it drained for days. It's amazing how much water those things soak up from tiny holes. I should post pictures of the quality issues I come across, and not just the Asian stuff.

I hated that board laugh



Must be block cut EPS. As Parmenter says in part 4 absorbent EPS is disastrous because it will suck water from pinholes, so should be avoided unless its a sandwich build. I assume he must be talking about block cut EPS. Moulded fused bead EPS can be made very watertight and that is suitable for a non sandwich build. The reason why sandwich builds can get away with block cut EPS is because the divinycell or whatever that wraps it stops the water and isn't so likely to get punctured, plus sandwich builds normally have a thick layer of paint which would fill pinholes in the seam area.

The US blank manufactures seem to offer block cut blanks as well as moulded (fused) blanks, so beware, not just the stuff coming out of Asia. Make sure there is a fused blank inside your non sandwich lam .

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2895380
01/08/19 06:15 AM
01/08/19 06:15 AM
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whats inside a FW Mr J?


All the sailors with their seasick mamas hear the sirens on the shore.
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Retropete] #2895382
01/08/19 06:36 AM
01/08/19 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: Retropete
After looking at Schroff's bio on his website it irks me that he's railing on Asian imported surfboards when he's spent decades working for surf clothing corporations that made all their products in Asia. Now he's cruising around in his van to get away from the crowds he helped create with the image marketing of surfing and building replica surfboard models of McCoys and MR's. Wonder if he's sending them royalties for that?
Only choosing to fight the good fight when it comes to surfboards is BS in my eyes.
Easy target for marketing though.


roflmao

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: freeride76] #2895385
01/08/19 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: freeride76
whats inside a FW Mr J?


I don't know about modern ones Freeride. Early ones were vented, so must have been block cut. There is nothing to be gained from venting fused bead, but absence of vents does not necessarily mean fused bead.

A couple of the early prototypes I borrowed were near bullet proof sandwich, which as mentioned alleviates that problem. I had a quick look at the FW website and didn't notice any claims about fused. They don't say if their Helium/LFT builds are a full sandwich i.e. glass, HD skin, glass. However, the HD skin would give it puncture resistance sandwich qualities. The balsa in the rails look a vulnerability to me.

Anyone got a modern FW and dinged the rail or damaged a box? and did it suck water?

Libtech say they use fused. Modern surftechs are fused and Diverse's gold coast composite builds use fused bead.

XTR is of course XPS so won't have any suckage problems either.

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: xmesa] #2895386
01/08/19 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: xmesa
Originally Posted By: Retropete
After looking at Schroff's bio on his website it irks me that he's railing on Asian imported surfboards when he's spent decades working for surf clothing corporations that made all their products in Asia. Now he's cruising around in his van to get away from the crowds he helped create with the image marketing of surfing and building replica surfboard models of McCoys and MR's. Wonder if he's sending them royalties for that?
Only choosing to fight the good fight when it comes to surfboards is BS in my eyes.
Easy target for marketing though.


roflmao

sleeping


Caution: excessive Kool Aid consumption may lead to a bitter aftertaste!
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2895388
01/08/19 07:55 AM
01/08/19 07:55 AM
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I've had about ten FW's and never had an issue with fins boxes(FSC or Futures) or dings that suck water.

I did snap one (FST) clean in half though and left it in an Indo village years ago, i was back there in May and kids were playing on it everyday in the lagoon sometimes for hours..

I checked it out and gave it a paddle, expecting it to be waterlogged and mushy and wet, but the strange thing was it wasn't, it didn't feel heavier and was still as buoyant as the day i snapped it maybe it had sucked water but it wasn't visible or obvious, not even mouldy????

The balsa rails though, different story they had sucked in water a few inches in and gone mushy and mouldy.

Even when it had been sitting around for a few hours it was hard to tell if it had sucked water, nothing obvious when you tried to squeeze the EPS where it was snapped..

I did read in swayback thread that EPS tends to suck water when it's a ding in a board (like a vacuum effect) but not so much when it's fully exposed?

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Mr J] #2895391
01/08/19 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mr J
Originally Posted By: Caelho
...So even though it was glued they did not pop out, due to the fiberglass capping it, just cracked all around the box and wobbling around taking in buckets of water. It probably still has water in it even though it drained for days. It's amazing how much water those things soak up from tiny holes. I should post pictures of the quality issues I come across, and not just the Asian stuff.

I hated that board laugh



Must be block cut EPS. As Parmenter says in part 4 absorbent EPS is disastrous because it will suck water from pinholes, so should be avoided unless its a sandwich build. I assume he must be talking about block cut EPS. Moulded fused bead EPS can be made very watertight and that is suitable for a non sandwich build. The reason why sandwich builds can get away with block cut EPS is because the divinycell or whatever that wraps it stops the water and isn't so likely to get punctured, plus sandwich builds normally have a thick layer of paint which would fill pinholes in the seam area.

The US blank manufactures seem to offer block cut blanks as well as moulded (fused) blanks, so beware, not just the stuff coming out of Asia. Make sure there is a fused blank inside your non sandwich lam .


All EPS is "fused cell" - thats how they make it - fuse beads of polystyrene in a mold. The surfboard industry has just cottoned on to that term like the surf/snakeoil industry does. the block stuff is just moulded in a big block, not a surfboard blank. There are varying density's and quality of both surfboard specific molded eps and Block eps. The lower density or stuff that hasn't been molded under uniform temperature and pressure or uses larger beads can have larger voids between the cells and thats where the water gets sucked into.

The best EPS i have used came from a block of VH grade eps. better than the brand name and imported blanks of similar densities i have used.

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Retropete] #2895403
01/08/19 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Retropete
Originally Posted By: xmesa
Originally Posted By: Retropete
After looking at Schroff's bio on his website it irks me that he's railing on Asian imported surfboards when he's spent decades working for surf clothing corporations that made all their products in Asia. Now he's cruising around in his van to get away from the crowds he helped create with the image marketing of surfing and building replica surfboard models of McCoys and MR's. Wonder if he's sending them royalties for that?
Only choosing to fight the good fight when it comes to surfboards is BS in my eyes.
Easy target for marketing though.


roflmao

sleeping


I don't think anyone is interested in championing for hand shaped t shirts.


Organized competition is entirely peripheral to surfing qua surfing. People surf for love. - William Finnegan
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2895404
01/08/19 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Nail on the head

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq05PoCHdNr/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_medium=loading" data-instgrm-version="12" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:16px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq05PoCHdNr/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_medium=loading" style=" background:#FFFFFF; line-height:0; padding:0 0; text-align:center; text-decoration:none; width:100%;" target="_blank"> <div style=" display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; 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transform: translateX(16px) translateY(-4px) rotate(30deg)"></div></div><div style="margin-left: auto;"> <div style=" width: 0px; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-right: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(16px);"></div> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; flex-grow: 0; height: 12px; width: 16px; transform: translateY(-4px);"></div> <div style=" width: 0; height: 0; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-left: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(-4px) translateX(8px);"></div></div></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center; margin-bottom: 24px;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; flex-grow: 0; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;"></div> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; flex-grow: 0; height: 14px; width: 144px;"></div></div></a><p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq05PoCHdNr/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_medium=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Schroff Surfboards (@scrhroffsurfboards)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-12-01T01:35:31+00:00">Nov 30, 2018 at 5:35pm PST</time></p></div></blockquote>
<script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Could also be applied to so many other things...recycling...global warming aware Amazon Prime users...etc.


This eco board marketing kills me. I tried some entropy super sap resin and it outgasses like a muthafvcka. Nearly passed out just using it for finboxes (too ugly for full lams). RR and Greenroom barely give off any vocs.
shrug


Organized competition is entirely peripheral to surfing qua surfing. People surf for love. - William Finnegan
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: ghostshaper] #2895556
01/08/19 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
Originally Posted By: Retropete
Originally Posted By: xmesa
Originally Posted By: Retropete
After looking at Schroff's bio on his website it irks me that he's railing on Asian imported surfboards when he's spent decades working for surf clothing corporations that made all their products in Asia. Now he's cruising around in his van to get away from the crowds he helped create with the image marketing of surfing and building replica surfboard models of McCoys and MR's. Wonder if he's sending them royalties for that?
Only choosing to fight the good fight when it comes to surfboards is BS in my eyes.
Easy target for marketing though.


roflmao

sleeping


I don't think anyone is interested in championing for hand shaped t shirts.

That's how they got away with whoring out surfing to the world.
wink
If there were no clothing companies like Billabong, Quiksilver, Rip curl that cashed up pro surfing and sold the imagery of surfing worldwide since the 70's what would surfing be like now?
Chances are there wouldn't be the global demand for surfboards that have spawned Asian surfboard production. Surfboard production could still be primarily cottage industry because the numbers of people surfing wouldn't be that great.



Caution: excessive Kool Aid consumption may lead to a bitter aftertaste!
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Retropete] #2895756
01/09/19 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: Retropete

That's how they got away with whoring out surfing to the world.
wink
If there were no clothing companies like Billabong, Quiksilver, Rip curl that cashed up pro surfing and sold the imagery of surfing worldwide since the 70's what would surfing be like now?
Chances are there wouldn't be the global demand for surfboards that have spawned Asian surfboard production. Surfboard production could still be primarily cottage industry because the numbers of people surfing wouldn't be that great.



ah, I get your point. cheers

and I'll explicitly add that contest "pro" surfing was created to sell said clothing (even though you said it above).


Organized competition is entirely peripheral to surfing qua surfing. People surf for love. - William Finnegan
Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: toddo] #2895761
01/09/19 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: toddo

All EPS is "fused cell" - thats how they make it - fuse beads of polystyrene in a mold. The surfboard industry has just cottoned on to that term like the surf/snakeoil industry does. the block stuff is just moulded in a big block, not a surfboard blank. There are varying density's and quality of both surfboard specific molded eps and Block eps. The lower density or stuff that hasn't been molded under uniform temperature and pressure or uses larger beads can have larger voids between the cells and thats where the water gets sucked into.

The best EPS i have used came from a block of VH grade eps. better than the brand name and imported blanks of similar densities i have used.


thanks for clearing that up, I did know that the beads were sealed, it is the gap between the between the beads is the problem. However I was basing my simple 2 category division based on how some of the blank companies present their marketing blurb.

https://usblanks.com/blank-options/foamselection/

We do know however that some EPS is very good at resisting absorption and some EPS is awful. From what you are saying there would be all manner of in between.

Perhaps we should just say the "good stuff" and the "bad stuff"!

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: indodreams] #2895765
01/09/19 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: indodreams
I've had about ten FW's and never had an issue with fins boxes(FSC or Futures) or dings that suck water.

I did snap one (FST) clean in half though and left it in an Indo village years ago, i was back there in May and kids were playing on it everyday in the lagoon sometimes for hours..

I checked it out and gave it a paddle, expecting it to be waterlogged and mushy and wet, but the strange thing was it wasn't, it didn't feel heavier and was still as buoyant as the day i snapped it maybe it had sucked water but it wasn't visible or obvious, not even mouldy????

The balsa rails though, different story they had sucked in water a few inches in and gone mushy and mouldy.

Even when it had been sitting around for a few hours it was hard to tell if it had sucked water, nothing obvious when you tried to squeeze the EPS where it was snapped..

I did read in swayback thread that EPS tends to suck water when it's a ding in a board (like a vacuum effect) but not so much when it's fully exposed?


It seems that due to the strength/sealed nature of the FW build that what sort of EPS is inside it is not a big issue.

Normal wood stringers in conventional PU blanks can absorb water, but usually a single ding on say the nose is not a big issue if repaired within a reasonable time. However unusual circumstances such as a ding in the nose on the stringer and a corresponding one in the tail can suck in more water.

yes, EPS when glassed with punctures is far worse than exposed EPS. Effectively it turns the surfboard into a pump. Compress into bottom turn and expel air out of pinholes/dings. Unweight and suck water in!

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: ghostshaper] #2895769
01/09/19 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: ghostshaper


This eco board marketing kills me. I tried some entropy super sap resin and it outgasses like a muthafvcka. Nearly passed out just using it for finboxes (too ugly for full lams). RR and Greenroom barely give off any vocs.
shrug


better for environment, worse for human! This idea of less VOCs from epoxy is a bit of a moot point to a glasser who has become sensetised and breaks out in a blistering rash from the slightest exposure.

Re: Finally, a QUALITY Asian import surfboard [Re: Mr J] #2895775
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Originally Posted By: Mr J
Originally Posted By: ghostshaper


This eco board marketing kills me. I tried some entropy super sap resin and it outgasses like a muthafvcka. Nearly passed out just using it for finboxes (too ugly for full lams). RR and Greenroom barely give off any vocs.
shrug


better for environment, worse for human! This idea of less VOCs from epoxy is a bit of a moot point to a glasser who has become sensetised and breaks out in a blistering rash from the slightest exposure.


I'm not sensitized, but I read it was from glassers using acetone to clean up, just like they do w/ PE. I don't use acetone. I just use Gojo or any other pumice hand cleaner. The claim is that acetone is the solvent that carries the epoxy into your body and causes someone to become sensitized.

I don't like the VOCs from shaping EPS, though. Styrene is not something I want to breathe in. I wear a full mask respirator when shaping.

From wiki:
Health effects
Styrene is regarded as a "known carcinogen", especially in case of eye contact, but also in case of skin contact, of ingestion and of inhalation, according to several sources.[19][26][27][28] Styrene is largely metabolized into styrene oxide in humans, resulting from oxidation by cytochrome P450. Styrene oxide is considered toxic, mutagenic, and possibly carcinogenic. Styrene oxide is subsequently hydrolyzed in vivo to styrene glycol by the enzyme epoxide hydrolase.[29] The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has described styrene to be "a suspected toxin to the gastrointestinal tract, kidney, and respiratory system, among others".


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