REMINDER: Siteowner has no obligation to monitor the Forums. However, Siteowner reserves the right to review the Materials submitted to or posted on the Forums, and remove, delete, redact or otherwise modify such Materials, in its sole discretion and for any reason whatsoever, at any time and from time to time, without notice or further obligation to you. Siteowner has no obligation to display or post any Materials provided by you. Siteowner reserves the right to disclose, at any time and from time to time, any information or Materials that Siteowner deems necessary or appropriate to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, contract obligation, legal or dispute process or government request. To further read the rules and terms of agreement of this Forum, click here.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 13 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 13
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: mundus] #2894292
01/05/19 05:30 PM
01/05/19 05:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,118
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Duke status
Surfdog  Offline
Duke status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,118
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually that’s what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course they’ll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Aren't you comfortably retired? Why waste your time and energy wetting the bed with this stuff?


No, still a few more years from retiring. In fact I just officially became a full time business. My boss is retiring, and I'm taking over a large portion of it as a new entity. So, now I pay even more taxes and such, but hopefully also make a bit more when it all washes out.

Giving illegal immigrants criminals more rights than legal citizens is a travesty to our justice system, and that's what's fucked up.


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2894355
01/05/19 08:38 PM
01/05/19 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually that’s what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course they’ll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Aren't you comfortably retired? Why waste your time and energy wetting the bed with this stuff?


No, still a few more years from retiring. In fact I just officially became a full time business. My boss is retiring, and I'm taking over a large portion of it as a new entity. So, now I pay even more taxes and such, but hopefully also make a bit more when it all washes out.

Giving illegal immigrants criminals more rights than legal citizens is a travesty to our justice system, and that's what's fucked up.


So weve quit trying to discuss the basics of how cooperation would legally and fiscally work. Why dont you tell us instead how illegal immigrant criminals have more rights than the rest of us? Be specific.


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Duffy] #2894357
01/05/19 08:41 PM
01/05/19 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
How long do they hold him? Where? Bail? Can they do this only to people with accents? Who pays for the detention? What if hes a citizen at the end of the day? Who pays for the civil rights lawsuit?

I posted about all the troubles that came along with ICEs cooperation policy. Why do you think those same issues wont present in CA?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2894359
01/05/19 08:47 PM
01/05/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thats what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course theyll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.


You keep skipping even the most basic issues - how do they know who is illegal? Ive twice posted about the many issues that come with cooperation with ice under its current program, using real life examples. From high costs to civil rights lawsuits to reduced trust and cooperation from citizens, why are you so steadfast that locals do ices job for them? When Oceanside has to pay out a $50m civil rights claim, are you going to jump in to help?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2894361
01/05/19 08:50 PM
01/05/19 08:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thats what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thats patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2894368
01/05/19 09:02 PM
01/05/19 09:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
E
ElOgro Offline
Duke status
ElOgro  Offline
Duke status
**
E

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thats what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thats patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?


What part is patently false?


"That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai

"That's all it takes--one moment." Sponge
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2894370
01/05/19 09:03 PM
01/05/19 09:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,118
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Duke status
Surfdog  Offline
Duke status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,118
Oceanside,CA
OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: ElOgro] #2894371
01/05/19 09:04 PM
01/05/19 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thats what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thats patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?


What part is patently false?


Raids not illegal. Get a warrant and raid away. I dont expect the raids Surfdog dreams back on were warrantless either.


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2894377
01/05/19 09:13 PM
01/05/19 09:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
E
ElOgro Offline
Duke status
ElOgro  Offline
Duke status
**
E

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnt call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


"That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai

"That's all it takes--one moment." Sponge
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2894378
01/05/19 09:13 PM
01/05/19 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.


When was the last time you heard about local cops busting a tax cheat for the IRS? Would you be ok with Oceanside PD holding you while they waited for IRS input because you couldnt prove you filed you taxes last year? Tax fraud is actually a much more serious crime than being an illegal, which at worst is a misdemeanor.

Sanctuary laws just make it clear that immigration is a federal matter. Its not hard. Hire more ICE agents and let them go ham.

And this entire discussion avoids the simple fact that CA law does in fact allow cooperation for anyone whos accused of a more serious crime or thought to be a gang member. So are you really that spun over local cops not being able to detain and report non-violent individuals?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: ElOgro] #2894379
01/05/19 09:15 PM
01/05/19 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnt be a problem, should it?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2894382
01/05/19 09:23 PM
01/05/19 09:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
E
ElOgro Offline
Duke status
ElOgro  Offline
Duke status
**
E

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnt be a problem, should it?


I asked you one question, your response to my one question is three questions.


"That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai

"That's all it takes--one moment." Sponge
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: ElOgro] #2894397
01/05/19 10:27 PM
01/05/19 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnt be a problem, should it?


I asked you one question, your response to my one question is three questions.


I have never worked in a kitchen, hence I have never seen an ice raid without a warrant. For future reference, I also have never been shot, shot heroin, been a porn star, vaped, been a minority, been killed by a Muslim terrorist or been priced out of a housing market by Chinese nationals.


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: ElOgro] #2894402
01/05/19 10:36 PM
01/05/19 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,668
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnt call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?


Bock you
Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2894410
01/05/19 10:48 PM
01/05/19 10:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
E
ElOgro Offline
Duke status
ElOgro  Offline
Duke status
**
E

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,968
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnt call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?


Yes. Yes.


"That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai

"That's all it takes--one moment." Sponge
Page 10 of 13 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 13

Moderated by  Groundswell, Nameless60, r32