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#2893714 - 01/03/19 11:17 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: stu dog]
Retropete Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 3462
Loc: Sunny Coast Qld Australia
Originally Posted By: stu dog
Originally Posted By: Retropete
Originally Posted By: goingright
Originally Posted By: mundus
Never ridden an epoxy, so don't know. Do the manufacturers really want increased durability, doesn't that mean less units sold?


For the most part, it's a marketing gimmick to move more boards. I will take anyday a board that breaks in 3 months than a board that lasts 2 years and shitty to ride.

I think my 2 cents also, PU/PE works as a dampener on a good wave. When energy of the wave is coming and you are paddling, pu/pe tends to Absorbs the energy of the wave and rides smooth. The energy of wave is nicely/efficiently transitioned into the surfer. Epoxy tends to do the opposite and bounce off water/energy especially when waves have juice. One epoxy board I had, as I was paddling and wanted to take off late backside, the tail kept fukkkin flexing back and forth like crazy as I come into contact with energy of the wave. Fukkkin weird. Not sure that makes sense. Just my experience but Im sure experienced surfers can make anything work and look good

Essentialy a useless post.
Epoxy...ok that is resin. There's a vast number of different eps foams, laminations, skins, resins in use now that a blanket statement about epoxy boards serves no purpose. Need to be specific.


I'm pretty sure he means EPS foam instead of Epoxy

Sure he does too but as I then said there's too many combinations in the available builds to just blanket statement "epoxy" boards.
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#2893717 - 01/03/19 11:24 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: goingright]
Retropete Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 3462
Loc: Sunny Coast Qld Australia
Originally Posted By: goingright
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: goingright
Quentin Tarantino puts it best. We can push technology as much as we want but there are some things that cant be replicated.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BON9Ksn1PqI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I call BS in regards to build material having nowhere else to go. Lots of proof to the contrary.


Totally agree;)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DwIEei6xB88" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That electric foil would I assume be the most efficient way to go forward compared to trying to power along the planing hulls of surfboards.
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#2893725 - 01/04/19 12:24 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
NinjaPete Offline
Grom

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 46
I consider my boards with wood or cork veneers as lifetime investments. Timbertek, Danny Hess, Stretch Legacy, Notox etc... They won't yellow and grow ugly and noodly like a PU board. Cork especially has really good properties for surviving a lifetime in water. I like the flex/feel of a cork board better than standard EPS. Plus, they just look cool especially when veneers are combined to make cool patterns.

https://youtu.be/6tNsfQz5hUM

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#2893754 - 01/04/19 07:11 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
Mr J Offline
Nep status
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
The Maurice cole episode on the Lee Scales podcast got me thinking about this. What blank/resin/production process are people finding to have the longest life span and durability?

Thick stringers, varial foam, epoxy/pu were mentioned repeatedly... .


Varial don't say what their foam is, but it seems to exhibit similar qualities to Rohacell which is PMI (Polyacrylamide) https://www.rohacell.com/product/rohacell/en/ and on Maurice Cole's Instagram it looks like he was trying Varial foam with a stringer, but we have yet to see that released to the general public.

Surftech's now defunct TL2 build used a Rohacell sandwich on EPS, not quite as tough as their divinycell sandwich (original tufflite), but more flexy and a less reactive ride.

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#2893827 - 01/04/19 11:15 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: mundus]
Muscles Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 503
Loc: California/Hawaii
Originally Posted By: mundus
Worst glass job ever was on a CI, if you looked at the thing wrong it dinged

Had a CI that was basically trashed after 12 weeks of near daily use. One time I landed on it after getting pitched over the falls and it left a 12x12 dent in the nose.

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#2893833 - 01/04/19 11:20 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
Muscles Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 503
Loc: California/Hawaii
I've tried many different variations of EPS and just didn't like it.

I prefer PU but I am interested in giving Varial Foam a try. The only reason I haven't is it is a huge markup over a regular blank. Most shapers I talked to charge $200-250 more for Varial foam. Seems risky for something that I'm not even sure will last longer than a PU.


Edited by Muscles (01/04/19 11:20 AM)

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#2893847 - 01/04/19 11:50 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
jkb Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 5432
Loc: Oceansuck
It's been said here before, but it bares repeating based on where this thread is going. Not all EPS/Epoxy boards are equal (same goes for PU/PE).

Many people who have had negative experiences on EPS/Epoxy boards have probably only tried a construction that consists of an ultra light blank and a heavy glass job. This gives you a stiff, pingy sensation.....like you're bouncing off every little bump on the face.

However, if you get a board where the EPS blank is closer in density to the PU blank that you typically like and combine that with a glass schedule that you typically like, the feel is much closer to PU/PE. The added benefit to this type of construction is that Epoxy is less brittle than PE resin and in my experience, the board will definitely take more abuse (i.e. last longer).

Also, shapers that have a long history using and refining EPS/Epoxy builds (Stretch) have experimented a lot with glass layups like quadaxial glassing. In my experience, this allows them to use more glass (stronger) and still retain a flex that still feels really good, so much so that many prefer it in big waves.
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#2893859 - 01/04/19 12:07 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
Waterlogged05 Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 238
Me and Deforest coming in to preach the benefits of XTR over EPS and PU


Edited by Waterlogged05 (01/04/19 12:08 PM)

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#2893870 - 01/04/19 12:13 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: Waterlogged05]
jkb Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 5432
Loc: Oceansuck
Originally Posted By: Waterlogged05
Me and Deforest coming in to preach the benefits of XTR over EPS and PU


roflmao

Count me in. I'm a believer as well.
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#2894048 - 01/04/19 04:21 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: jkb]
goingright Offline
Gerry Lopez status
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Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 1150
Originally Posted By: jkb
Originally Posted By: Waterlogged05
Me and Deforest coming in to preach the benefits of XTR over EPS and PU


roflmao

Count me in. I'm a believer as well.



roflmao

on a side note, I think my argument is you can spend much more money, time and resources experimenting with different tech, material construction etc

Not gonna bother with it. If I get 30 sessions on new pu/pe board (600 Dollars) and sell it for 300 bucks after 3 months, that's 10 dollars a session. Seems like a good deal to me. Bikers spend 5 to 10K on crazy gears. Golf costs a fortune. Even Tennis is 10 bucks to reserve a court for an hour. The argument that pu/pe is expensive since they break often doesn't make sense to me. Surfboards are cheap for the amount of enjoyment we get out of them and resale value is pretty good.


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#2894077 - 01/04/19 05:08 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
Waterlogged05 Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 238
It doesn't seem that bad now that you break it down to cost per session. That being said, PU boards have gotten so pricey nowadays, that the incentive to go for a 500 dollar board over an 800 board is less when a new big box PU is a minimum of 650.

I have been on a used board kick as I try to re orient myself after being out of the water for years and losing my magic boards.

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#2894085 - 01/04/19 05:24 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
goingright Offline
Gerry Lopez status
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Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 1150
no doubt. I can't think of the name but this dude wrote a book that I read a while back.
He says basically that it robs us of enjoyment when we are presented with too many options.
Walk into a clothing store to Buy jeans and you have 10 different options. (Skinny, slim, relaxed, straight, boot cut etc)
Carbon, EPS, Aerospace, Space shuttle foam, this and that ...wtf
Keeping up with this shit is endless. Oh hell, just try to keep up with every board model that comes out for instance from lost website is fukkkin hell. Uber driver, Lyft Driver , taxi driver, couch potato, sofa potato

Fukkk man,, pick up a board, go have fun. No need to stress about you should be on hat

EDIT: Found the dude..lol
https://www.amazon.com/Paradox-Choice-Why-More-Less/dp/149151423X

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#2894149 - 01/04/19 10:41 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: goingright]
Maz Offline
Gerry Lopez status
*

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 953
Loc: Innzid
Originally Posted By: goingright
Originally Posted By: jkb
Originally Posted By: Waterlogged05
Me and Deforest coming in to preach the benefits of XTR over EPS and PU


roflmao

Count me in. I'm a believer as well.



roflmao

on a side note, I think my argument is you can spend much more money, time and resources experimenting with different tech, material construction etc

Not gonna bother with it. If I get 30 sessions on new pu/pe board (600 Dollars) and sell it for 300 bucks after 3 months, that's 10 dollars a session. Seems like a good deal to me. Bikers spend 5 to 10K on crazy gears. Golf costs a fortune. Even Tennis is 10 bucks to reserve a court for an hour. The argument that pu/pe is expensive since they break often doesn't make sense to me. Surfboards are cheap for the amount of enjoyment we get out of them and resale value is pretty good.



Jeebus!

If I sell a board after 30 surfs, it's because it's a complete dog - or the wrong size for me.

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#2894158 - 01/04/19 11:46 PM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: manbearpig]
Topeslide Offline
Grom

Registered: 01/09/18
Posts: 99
No matter what the board construction is, it won't stop stupid, which means leaving boards out in the sun all of the time or rinsing it off after every sesh.

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#2894163 - 01/05/19 12:03 AM Re: Board longevity/durability [Re: Aruka]
Mr J Offline
Nep status
**

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Aruka
FW seem like they should be durable but I don't really buy it.

Saw a buddy buckl his FW longboard in waist high waves. Thing was nearly new.

When I was in J-Bay I went to a ding guy to get a fin box repaired and the dude had a stack, like 10+ FW boards in the corner all buckled or snapped. I guess there are a couple guys there who are FW sponsored or get flow or something. Ding guy was not impressed by the foam faux stringers and the de-laminating wood veneers.

I'm sure you could break a board at J-bay but it's definitely not what I would consider a super heavy board breaking type wave so I dunno.

Coils are probably the most durable boards I've owned as far as dings but I did break one surfing a heavy beachbreak.

.


Aruka, that's a useful distinction of longevity/strength types you bring up with the Coil example. There are two different types under discussion here:

1. Ability to resist dings, dents, delams.

2. Snap/buckle resistance.

And I suppose there is ability to retain its "pop" which I think goes hand in hand with number 1. above.

As surfers putting our boards through general use we can draw some conclusions about durability type number 1. However, the only way of determining snap/buckle resistance is under controlled scientific conditions in a materials lab due to the random nature of circumstances that snap boards. For this reason anecdotal reports of boards snapping are next to useless. Additionally these reports sometimes come loaded with some alternative agenda to either discredit or credit a particular brand for ideological reasons. It sounds like you are just reporting what you see, but really a stack of broken FWs with no stack of broken pu boards being displayed by a repairer sounds suspicious to me.

I had a look at the varial website and they have used such a machine as shown below on some test panels. 3 point test doesn't exactly replicate a wave breaking a board, but I would trust this sort of test much more than anecdotes.


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