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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895057
01/07/19 06:35 PM
01/07/19 06:35 PM
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OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895066
01/07/19 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?


I told you previously - having sanctuary laws in place spell out specifically what local jurisdictions can and cannot do, which prevents them from engaging in practices they're not fully equipped to handle, both staff wise and financially.

If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.

ICE has the ability to do this job. In fact, ICE has been scooping up illegals in big numbers in CA lately. They should keep doing just what they're doing. If they want local help with someone, they should get a warrant and all will be good.

Reference: https://www.latimes.com/politics/essenti...-htmlstory.html

Also note the little link in the above article that discusses the fact that sanctuary cities tend to have lower crime rates than non-sanctuary cities, but that's probably not important, hey?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895085
01/07/19 07:13 PM
01/07/19 07:13 PM
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Great!

Then WHY does a large faction on the left want to get rid of ICE and other illegal immigration enforcement?

If it's working so well, why the push to de-fund, or even get rid of ICE altogether?

Maybe they might be doing TOO good a job now?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895089
01/07/19 07:19 PM
01/07/19 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Great!

Then WHY does a large faction on the left want to get rid of ICE and other illegal immigration enforcement?

If it's working so well, why the push to de-fund, or even get rid of ICE altogether?

Maybe they might be doing TOO good a job now?


Please link to "a large portion of the left" wanting to get rid of ICE.

The small number of those on the left who have said they'd like to see it go are complaining more about ICE's tactics under Trump than anything else.

But be aware it's not just "the left" who sees the current focus on deportation as harmful. Even those in ICE themselves think the deportation focus is taking away from more important national security interests: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/ice-immigration-eliminate-agency.html?module=inline


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895091
01/07/19 07:23 PM
01/07/19 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?


OK, I gotta ask, what part of CA's sanctuary laws are responsible for the cop at issue's death here, as we started discussing originally?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895099
01/07/19 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Phi1] #2895102
01/07/19 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Phi1
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/26/in...-release-dates/


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895195
01/07/19 10:19 PM
01/07/19 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Phi1
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/26/in...-release-dates/


See if you can get LA and SF to go along with that plan. rolleyes


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895204
01/07/19 10:42 PM
01/07/19 10:42 PM
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"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895218
01/07/19 10:57 PM
01/07/19 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895220
01/07/19 11:02 PM
01/07/19 11:02 PM
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But enough of this nonsense. The gist of all of your feelz seems to be we'd all be safer if there were no sanctuary laws, right? In fact, the opposite seems to be true:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/01/29/512002076/why-sanctuary-cities-are-safer

So now, what say you, Surfdog? Make the argument one more time that local jurisdictions that aren't trained in immigration matters and aren't staffed to handle immigration matters and don't have the budgets to deal with immigration matters (and lawsuits) should still partake in immigration matters, even though areas with sanctuary laws are, in fact, SAFER.


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895227
01/07/19 11:08 PM
01/07/19 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?




No more cherry picking than you are. Your poll is not even a couple months later. Polling this issue is like sticking your finger in the wind day to day. Some negative or positive MSM stories get the Dems AND Repubs swinging wildly at narratives and agendas (like the caravan arrival likely did the last couple months).

As for your "fact" that "some" people inside ICE would like to see it broken up?

So what? I'm sure there's also plenty "inside" that'd like to see it doubled in size, as YOU even suggested be done to relieve local police from trying to enforce.

Can't have it both ways, if you want illegal immigration actual rule of law enforced. Either you want more, tougher ICE, INS, BCP, or you want to see more open border type policies?

Which is it?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895231
01/07/19 11:13 PM
01/07/19 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?




No more cherry picking than you are. Your poll is not even a couple months later. Polling this issue is like sticking your finger in the wind day to day. Some negative or positive MSM stories get the Dems AND Repubs swinging wildly at narratives and agendas (like the caravan arrival likely did the last couple months).

As for your "fact" that "some" people inside ICE would like to see it broken up?

So what? I'm sure there's also plenty "inside" that'd like to see it doubled in size, as YOU even suggested be done to relieve local police from trying to enforce.

Can't have it both ways, if you want illegal immigration actual rule of law enforced. Either you want more, tougher ICE, INS, BCP, or you want to see more open border type policies?

Which is it?


Without looking, do you know what ICE was originally intended to do?


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: StuAzole] #2895236
01/07/19 11:18 PM
01/07/19 11:18 PM
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Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).


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Re: California Cop Killer Caught - [Re: Surfdog] #2895248
01/07/19 11:41 PM
01/07/19 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).


Specifically, they were set up to target criminal enterprises that engaged in cross-border crime.

The complaints coming from inside ICE are that they can't do the job they were tasked to do, because they're chasing around less threatening individuals.

Do you feel safer knowing that?

And again -

But enough of this nonsense. The gist of all of your feelz seems to be we'd all be safer if there were no sanctuary laws, right? In fact, the opposite seems to be true:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/01/29/512002076/why-sanctuary-cities-are-safer

So now, what say you, Surfdog? Make the argument one more time that local jurisdictions that aren't trained in immigration matters and aren't staffed to handle immigration matters and don't have the budgets to deal with immigration matters (and lawsuits) should still partake in immigration matters, even though areas with sanctuary laws are, in fact, SAFER overall.

Last edited by StuAzole; 01/07/19 11:44 PM.

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