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#2748097 - 02/12/18 09:31 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: Hdip]
JSC Offline
Grom
*

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Hdip
Originally Posted By: youcantbeserious
Originally Posted By: JSC
Hawaii greatly overstates its place and importance in the surfing world.


Except for the part where they invented surfing, right?


*cough*PERU*cough*


Yup - Hawaii was not populated extensively by humans until approximately 1000AD, from Tahiti and/or Samoa. Surfing in one form or another, using a board or raft to ride waves, has been practiced in coastal Peru and areas such as Australasia, Madagascar and West Africa for several thousand years - far longer than in Hawaii. Europeans, specifically Captain James Cook of the Royal Navy, documented surfing in the Society Islands and in Hawaii by 1779 - there was no documentation of surfing by anyone in Australasia, Madagascar or West Africa. "Hawaii invented surfing" - another myth promoted by Hawaii to benefit tourism, but it isn't true.

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#2748117 - 02/12/18 10:32 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: JSC]
craigj532 Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
***

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 8847
Please don't abandon us, WSL!

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[P]ower and privilege cannot move a people who know where they stand and stand in the law.

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#2748128 - 02/12/18 10:56 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: JSC]
Racer1 Offline
Phil Edwards status
**

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 6124
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Originally Posted By: JSC
Originally Posted By: Hdip
Originally Posted By: youcantbeserious
Originally Posted By: JSC
Hawaii greatly overstates its place and importance in the surfing world.


Except for the part where they invented surfing, right?


*cough*PERU*cough*


Yup - Hawaii was not populated extensively by humans until approximately 1000AD, from Tahiti and/or Samoa. Surfing in one form or another, using a board or raft to ride waves, has been practiced in coastal Peru and areas such as Australasia, Madagascar and West Africa for several thousand years - far longer than in Hawaii. Europeans, specifically Captain James Cook of the Royal Navy, documented surfing in the Society Islands and in Hawaii by 1779 - there was no documentation of surfing by anyone in Australasia, Madagascar or West Africa. "Hawaii invented surfing" - another myth promoted by Hawaii to benefit tourism, but it isn't true.


If we are going to call what those Peruvians were doing in reed boats as surfing, then you are missing one crucial fact: Polynesians have been paddling outrigger canoes for at least 4,000 years and rode waves to shore (at least one of them had to have stood up in the canoe whilst riding a wave).

Hawaiians invented prone paddling to pop up standing surfing without paddles, which is what we all currently do. Hawaiians built some aspects of their lives around surfing and the seasonal waves while Peruvians didn't - their priority was fishing. So if you are practicing prone paddling to pop up surfing and chasing swells up or down the coast, then you are doing what Hawaiians invented.


Edited by Racer1 (02/12/18 11:04 PM)

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#2748163 - 02/13/18 12:14 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: Racer1]
JSC Offline
Grom
*

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Racer1
Originally Posted By: JSC
Originally Posted By: Hdip
Originally Posted By: youcantbeserious
Originally Posted By: JSC
Hawaii greatly overstates its place and importance in the surfing world.


Except for the part where they invented surfing, right?


*cough*PERU*cough*


Yup - Hawaii was not populated extensively by humans until approximately 1000AD, from Tahiti and/or Samoa. Surfing in one form or another, using a board or raft to ride waves, has been practiced in coastal Peru and areas such as Australasia, Madagascar and West Africa for several thousand years - far longer than in Hawaii. Europeans, specifically Captain James Cook of the Royal Navy, documented surfing in the Society Islands and in Hawaii by 1779 - there was no documentation of surfing by anyone in Australasia, Madagascar or West Africa. "Hawaii invented surfing" - another myth promoted by Hawaii to benefit tourism, but it isn't true.


Hawaiians invented prone paddling to pop up standing surfing without paddles, which is what we all currently do. Hawaiians built some aspects of their lives around surfing and the seasonal waves while Peruvians didn't - their priority was fishing. So if you are practicing prone paddling to pop up surfing and chasing swells up or down the coast, then you are doing what Hawaiians invented.


Nup - wrong again. Polynesia did not exist until about 900 AD when proto-Polynesians first arrived in what is now Samoa and French Polynesia. Undoubtedly, people in Australasia, West Africa and Madagascar were standing on wooden boards and in canoes or raft-like structures and riding ocean waves hundreds if not thousands of years before Polynesia existed.

There were no educated Europeans to document their activities in text or images, unlike the first Europeans like Cook, Bougainville, the Spaniard lvaro de Mendaa de Neira and the Dutch navigators Tasman and Roggeveen who traveled throughout the Pacific, including Polynesia and made detailed notes and sketches about surfing on various islands.

So, no - Hawaiians did not "invent" surfing. Polynesians did not invent surfing.

The myth that they did is a falsehood that has been flogged for decades by the Hawaii tourism industry as it is good for business.

The point is - surfing is a market driver for Hawaii. Golf and American Football, a spectacle of ritualised violence presented as a sport, don't have the same cachet and no cultural identification with Hawaii whatsoever. The fact that the State of Hawaii has supported both professional football and golf with subsidies - PAID them to have tournaments and games in Hawaii - is stupid.

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing, it needs to drop the island myopia and tough-guy act and embrace professional surfing as a welcome and wanted activity - not as quaint "surf meets" under the authority of the Department of Parks and Recreation (?) but as a real, Olympic recognised sport integral to Hawaii's international image and as an important market driver for those 8 million tourists a year who come to Hawaii.

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#2748173 - 02/13/18 12:52 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
Racer1 Offline
Phil Edwards status
**

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 6124
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
You're exactly right if you are going to use a real loose definition of "surfing."

Hawaii does pay for surf events....100+ days of privatized waiting periods on the North shore, compromising resources (waves) and time (contested days) of public spaces (beaches and surf spots).

Hawaii will always be relevant, contests or not, because the surf is that good and BIG.

All of this conversation is moot, all parties still have all the existing permits in some form and the events will still run.


Edited by Racer1 (02/13/18 12:55 AM)

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#2748245 - 02/13/18 10:31 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: Racer1]
SBSteve Offline
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 4249
Uhhhh...
Hello.
Wasn't this thread about the WSL leaving Hawaii shrug

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#2748313 - 02/13/18 11:35 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: JSC]
Boneroni Offline
Tom Curren status
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Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 10330
Loc: Goleta
Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing, it needs to drop the island myopia and tough-guy act and embrace professional surfing as a welcome and wanted activity - not as quaint "surf meets" under the authority of the Department of Parks and Recreation (?) but as a real, Olympic recognised sport integral to Hawaii's international image and as an important market driver for those 8 million tourists a year who come to Hawaii.


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Wow. Just wow.
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Originally Posted By: PPK96754
Don't stir the pot if you don't know the ingredient.

Originally Posted By: HarryLopez
I guess the ocean is always ready to kill someone for free. laugh

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#2748326 - 02/13/18 11:47 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: Boneroni]
Mr_Stagger_Lee Offline
Phil Edwards status
***

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 6877
Originally Posted By: Boneroni
Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing, it needs to drop the island myopia and tough-guy act and embrace professional surfing as a welcome and wanted activity - not as quaint "surf meets" under the authority of the Department of Parks and Recreation (?) but as a real, Olympic recognised sport integral to Hawaii's international image and as an important market driver for those 8 million tourists a year who come to Hawaii.


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Originally Posted By: JSC

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing......


Wow. Just wow.


Yeah....lemme just check the surf report and get back to you on that!

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#2748328 - 02/13/18 11:49 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
SurfFuerte Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 09/20/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: hulling, mostly...
hawaii should escort the wsl to the door, and tell them to be careful to not let it hit then on the arse on the way out.

then, IF they wanted to, run contests at those same dates with different sponsors under new name. the WSL (Wave Surf League) for example, and see who gets the ratings.

not like there's not a top 88 surfers in the world.

in the end, there will be national leagues which will then compete on an international level, like soccer, or any other organized team sport.

then hawaiians could compete in their own league, the American one.

aussies in theirs, euros in theirs, africans in theirs.... and a world cup every 4 years.
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roscoe jones

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#2748334 - 02/13/18 11:53 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
r32 Offline


Tom Curren status
***

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 11933
Loc: Cambria
That would never work Fuerte for a bunch of reasons.

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#2748336 - 02/13/18 11:56 AM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: JSC]
youcantbeserious Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 3296
Loc: Location Location
Originally Posted By: JSC


Nup - wrong again. Polynesia did not exist until about 900 AD when proto-Polynesians first arrived in what is now Samoa and French Polynesia. Undoubtedly, people in Australasia, West Africa and Madagascar were standing on wooden boards and in canoes or raft-like structures and riding ocean waves hundreds if not thousands of years before Polynesia existed.

There were no educated Europeans to document their activities in text or images, unlike the first Europeans like Cook, Bougainville, the Spaniard lvaro de Mendaa de Neira and the Dutch navigators Tasman and Roggeveen who traveled throughout the Pacific, including Polynesia and made detailed notes and sketches about surfing on various islands.

So, no - Hawaiians did not "invent" surfing. Polynesians did not invent surfing.

The myth that they did is a falsehood that has been flogged for decades by the Hawaii tourism industry as it is good for business.

The point is - surfing is a market driver for Hawaii. Golf and American Football, a spectacle of ritualised violence presented as a sport, don't have the same cachet and no cultural identification with Hawaii whatsoever. The fact that the State of Hawaii has supported both professional football and golf with subsidies - PAID them to have tournaments and games in Hawaii - is stupid.

If Hawaii wants to stay relevant in surfing, it needs to drop the island myopia and tough-guy act and embrace professional surfing as a welcome and wanted activity - not as quaint "surf meets" under the authority of the Department of Parks and Recreation (?) but as a real, Olympic recognised sport integral to Hawaii's international image and as an important market driver for those 8 million tourists a year who come to Hawaii.


Polynesia didn't exist until 900 A.D.? Can you pease cite some relevant anthropological sources here? Because that goes against all academic consensus on Pacific migration, settlement, and cultural forms. What literature are you referencing here? I'm genuinely interested. And you claim that "undoubtedly" surfing was happening in other places? Why? And would what was happening be recognizable as modern surfing? Surfing was highly developed cultural form in Hawaii, claiming that the same thing happened elsewhere is simply false, no matter how badly you want it to be true. If you are making that claim, you should back it up. It's actually been argued, unsuccessfully, by at least one anthropologist. Are you aware of this thread in the literature? Is this what you're citing?

Hawaiians, not Tahitians, not Samoans, not anyone else, were the first to practice what we would recognize today as modern surfing. Period.

Hawaii doesn't need professional surfing. Hawaii is a surf culture. It has always been a surf culture. It will continue to be a surf culture. I'm not sure why you are personally so invested in keeping pro surfing in Hawaii while at the same time denying Hawaii's place in surfing's history. It's a strange logic. Care to explain?
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I've been banned from better websites than this one.

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#2748342 - 02/13/18 12:01 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: SurfFuerte]
SurfFuerte Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 09/20/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: hulling, mostly...
Originally Posted By: SurfFuerte

in the end, there will be national leagues which will then compete on an international level, like soccer, or any other organized team sport.

then hawaiians could compete in their own league, the American one.

aussies in theirs, euros in theirs, africans in theirs.... and a world cup every 4 years.


how much you wanna bet, ^^^ this is exactly how it ends up... within our lifetimes too.
_________________________
roscoe jones

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#2748344 - 02/13/18 12:01 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
SurfFuerte Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 09/20/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: hulling, mostly...
for pure dividi vinci marketing reasons.
_________________________
roscoe jones

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#2748346 - 02/13/18 12:03 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
SurfFuerte Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 09/20/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: hulling, mostly...
americans-aussies-euros-africans-asians all argue amongst themselves for four years, only to rally behind the 'national' team, once every four years.

it's called cultural programming. works great, just look around.
_________________________
roscoe jones

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#2748348 - 02/13/18 12:05 PM Re: No Talk of the WSL leaving Hawaii? [Re: slopokecr]
SurfFuerte Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 09/20/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: hulling, mostly...
gotcha r32! roflmao
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