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Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: Norm'] #2119584
11/03/13 01:19 AM
11/03/13 01:19 AM
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Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: ifallalot] #2119585
11/03/13 02:55 AM
11/03/13 02:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503
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Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: HBSURFDAD] #2119586
11/03/13 10:32 AM
11/03/13 10:32 AM
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Posts: 32,369
your mom
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD




Oh goody, the insurance shill is here.

If there was a public option, like it should have been, the insurance companies would have to compete, instead of have a free reign, yet again.

The real and the biggest benefit of ACA is stopping the ridiculousness of insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Those whose premiums went up are punished by insurance companies because the insurance profiteers are finally forced to provide actual health service to their customers.
Those uninsured who are forced to join the pool are also paying for this. That's only fair - everybody ends up in hospital at some point.

The abolishment of pre-existing condition bullshit is why ACA is worth it in my book. But it ain't no single payer system, hope that's yet to come.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: HBSURFDAD] #2119587
11/03/13 10:42 AM
11/03/13 10:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 55,378
HB, CA
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD




A slight tax increase compared to a windfall of profit? Sorry, not buying it. And costs are going up, god forbid it cuts into profit. I know that the whole healthcare industry is a racket, not just insurance, and you've helped me to understand that but to think that Obamacare is actually hurting insurance companies is ridiculous.

3. Obamacare: Health care dead-end

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was a victory for corporate America. In exchange for giving up their rules against covering pre-existing conditions and agreeing to raise the age limit in which children could be covered under their parents policy, the health insurance corporations got the federal government to require every citizen to buy their product and commit to subsidizing those that cant afford the price. The pharmaceutical industry received even stronger government protection of their price-gouging monopolies. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that there will still be 30 million uninsured Americans by the end of the decade. Tens of millions more will be under-insured as the companies are free to raise their premiums and deductibles.

Although it abandoned the public option, the White House whispers to Democrats that Obamacare will pave the way for single-payer. Fat chance. The bill was inspired by the right-wing Heritage Foundation and largely drafted by a former insurance company executive precisely to stop single-payer from ever happening. Meanwhile, the corporate dominated health care system will continue to be a huge drag on our global competitiveness and long-term fiscal health.


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: ifallalot] #2119588
11/03/13 11:27 AM
11/03/13 11:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503
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Obamacare is not hurting or helping insurance companies, it is just changing how they play the game. The bidding process on the exchanges will balance the additional enrolled so in my guess "profits" will be about the same, but costs for the whole process will be much higher. Look at carrier stocks, most are flat for the whole process. No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!

HBSURFDAD

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: HBSURFDAD] #2119589
11/03/13 12:13 PM
11/03/13 12:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Quote:

Obamacare is not hurting or helping insurance companies, it is just changing how they play the game. The bidding process on the exchanges will balance the additional enrolled so in my guess "profits" will be about the same, but costs for the whole process will be much higher. Look at carrier stocks, most are flat for the whole process. No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!

HBSURFDAD




The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.
What a disaster!

And yes, the health care system is broken and Rightards like it that way because it's good for business.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: FecalFace] #2119590
11/03/13 12:21 PM
11/03/13 12:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,281
In Gods Country
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Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2119591
11/03/13 01:07 PM
11/03/13 01:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you haven't heard yet, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying coverage all together for things like genetic disorders, actually existed.

Until now that is.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: FecalFace] #2119592
11/03/13 01:11 PM
11/03/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,281
In Gods Country
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2119593
11/03/13 01:24 PM
11/03/13 01:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 582
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Quote:

Quote:

My rates when down almost $400 per month for my family, and my coverage went up. Lower deductible, lower co-pay...Obamacare rocks.



Well, there you have it, it's a success!

You probably didn't even have more than a 6 hour wait to enroll either.




So what is your quote, and how is that compared to your current plan?

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: FecalFace] #2119594
11/03/13 01:31 PM
11/03/13 01:31 PM
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Quote:

The real and the biggest benefit of ACA is stopping the ridiculousness of insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Those whose premiums went up are punished by insurance companies because the insurance profiteers are finally forced to provide actual health service to their customers.
Those uninsured who are forced to join the pool are also paying for this. That's only fair - everybody ends up in hospital at some point.




Now that's a line of discussion I'd like to pursue.

It's basically saying that even if you're healthy you're still going to end up using a lot of medical care and services at some point in your life so you need to pay your fair share.

First of all I'd like to say I completely agree that on average everyone uses a lot of medical care at some point, often at the end-of-life stages; but also including neo-natal and childbirth and pediatrics and emergency medicine.

I also agree that people who use the services but who don't pay their providers add to the costs for the people who do pay.

The angle to this I want to discuss is what impact do these non-payers have on the costs at the provider level.

When it comes to these non-payers, what's their usage of medical care across the entire spectrum of services?

Does the average urologist or endocrinologist spend a significant amount of their time providing services to these non-payers? Do the MRI operators spend a significant percentage of their capacity to provide free scans to non-payers? Do the Pharma corporations give away for free a significant portion of their production capacity?

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?

If the law requires these providers and hospitals to provide free emergency services regardless of the patient's ability to pay then why are the costs of other services that these patients do not have access to and which they cannot use as high as they are?

If the pharma companies aren't required to provide free meds to anyone then why are those costs so high?

If you're poor and you don't have insurance and you contract cancer you're probably not going to get treatment beyond whatever happens in an ER. That means that oncologist probably isn't providing free services to poor people and he's getting paid for everything he does. That being the case, why is the all-cash price for a round of chemo from this doctor working at this cancer clinic cost as much as it does?


#sowhat
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2119595
11/03/13 01:35 PM
11/03/13 01:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 32,369
your mom
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: FecalFace] #2119596
11/03/13 01:48 PM
11/03/13 01:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,281
In Gods Country
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CharmingSophisticate Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,281
In Gods Country
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.



Not that I know of. What's your point?

That there are tons of poor people not getting the treatment that they need in order to survive?

This aint England bro (thank your beloved NHS) where it's all paid for........whether or not you get it in time is irrelevant, it's all paid for and it makes you feel good about yourself. The poor f'ers that die waiting for care?
Acceptable collateral damage apparently.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: HBSURFDAD] #2119597
11/03/13 01:53 PM
11/03/13 01:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 55,378
HB, CA
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Quote:

No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!



Absolutely 100%



My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? [Re: GDaddy] #2119598
11/03/13 01:53 PM
11/03/13 01:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 32,369
your mom
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FecalFace Offline
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Quote:

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?




There's plenty of blame to go around, insurance companies are just a tip of the iceberg. But they are an important link in the pyramid scheme that is passes for healthcare.

As long as the private sector is given a free reign with little regulation, we will be paying through the nose for very little.

I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.

I recently got a new GP at Scripps, being 50 this year and all.
$240 dollars for a 5 minute chat that taught me nothing and $365 dollars for a blood test that I haven't even seen (the nurse called and said that my "cholesterol is a little high") and that's it. $600 and I'm not any better off for it. I'm sure somebody else is.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
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