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Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: GDaddy] #2985249
07/21/19 10:34 PM
07/21/19 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GDaddy
Originally Posted by FecalFace
None of that will bring the cost down without government involvement.

Affordability of the Single Payer system depends on a large risk pool.

We are all being forced to pay taxes for things we don't like, that's how democracy works.

OTOH if you can get price/service down it makes it more feasible to expand coverage.

As for how democracy works, that's how we came to be where we're at right now, because the advocates for change don't yet have the votes to impose those changes on everyone else long enough to make them stick.


Again, stating the obvious.

Yes of course, Single Payer will be a thing when it gets enough votes, nobody said otherwise.

We are discussing the merits of the system, we know how democracy works.

My tax comment was in response to your "being forced to pay" for universal care.

I don't like most things my tax money is spent on because they don't benefit me or majority of the American people.

But I still don't think that "tax is theft" because I understand how democracy works.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: FecalFace] #2985274
07/21/19 11:54 PM
07/21/19 11:54 PM
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These are goods and services that we've already been exercising our discretion on for many years, so in a very real sense the act of taking that choice from people will be perceived as an infringement on that discretion and choice. There's no way around that. Now if you want to say its for our own good and we'll be glad that you forced us to submit to your will then that's great. But it doesn't change the fact that even you recognize that your plan won't work unless you can bring the power of government to bear in order to coerce compliance.

Which would not be necessary if most people actually held the value of universal health care as highly as you think they do. The good sht doesn't need to be sold (let alone compelled) because the good sht sells itself.





#sowhat
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: GromsDad] #2985278
07/21/19 11:59 PM
07/21/19 11:59 PM
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they need to incentivize good life style behavior.


incompetence is preferable to malice.
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: GDaddy] #2985316
07/22/19 02:40 AM
07/22/19 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GDaddy
But it doesn't change the fact that even you recognize that your plan won't work unless you can bring the power of government to bear in order to coerce compliance.

Which would not be necessary if most people actually held the value of universal health care as highly as you think they do. The good sht doesn't need to be sold (let alone compelled) because the good sht sells itself.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6001a24.htm


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union .. cheers
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: sirfun] #2985319
07/22/19 02:52 AM
07/22/19 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sirfun
Originally Posted by GDaddy
But it doesn't change the fact that even you recognize that your plan won't work unless you can bring the power of government to bear in order to coerce compliance.

Which would not be necessary if most people actually held the value of universal health care as highly as you think they do. The good sht doesn't need to be sold (let alone compelled) because the good sht sells itself.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6001a24.htm

Originally Posted by sirfun
Originally Posted by GDaddy
But it doesn't change the fact that even you recognize that your plan won't work unless you can bring the power of government to bear in order to coerce compliance.

Which would not be necessary if most people actually held the value of universal health care as highly as you think they do. The good sht doesn't need to be sold (let alone compelled) because the good sht sells itself.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6001a24.htm

Originally Posted by sirfun
Originally Posted by GDaddy
But it doesn't change the fact that even you recognize that your plan won't work unless you can bring the power of government to bear in order to coerce compliance.

Which would not be necessary if most people actually held the value of universal health care as highly as you think they do. The good sht doesn't need to be sold (let alone compelled) because the good sht sells itself.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6001a24.htm

Obamacare will be golden for smokers, get all your problems treated for free! It'll work out really well for drug addicted smokers, no more walking the streets to score, just go to Urgent Care!


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: GromsDad] #2985370
07/22/19 06:41 AM
07/22/19 06:41 AM
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Single payor is a dumb idea. Make a public option and let the people decide. 5k extra in taxes if you make $100k is a bargain. My mom and dad pay $1800 a month as they are self employed. They have a $3k deductible. They would gladly pay more in taxes to never have insurance again.

OTOH others who want private care should have it. If you make a lot of money and private care is better for you financially the option should be there.

Give people maximum choice.

Negotiate lower prices and make it more transparent

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: Zander] #2985372
07/22/19 09:49 AM
07/22/19 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Zander
Single payor is a dumb idea. Make a public option and let the people decide. 5k extra in taxes if you make $100k is a bargain. My mom and dad pay $1800 a month as they are self employed. They have a $3k deductible. They would gladly pay more in taxes to never have insurance again.

OTOH others who want private care should have it. If you make a lot of money and private care is better for you financially the option should be there.

Give people maximum choice.

Negotiate lower prices and make it more transparent

DING DING DING

Maximum choice results in minimum prices, every time


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: Zander] #2985432
07/22/19 03:21 PM
07/22/19 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Zander
Single payor is a dumb idea. Make a public option and let the people decide. 5k extra in taxes if you make $100k is a bargain. My mom and dad pay $1800 a month as they are self employed. They have a $3k deductible. They would gladly pay more in taxes to never have insurance again.

OTOH others who want private care should have it. If you make a lot of money and private care is better for you financially the option should be there.

Give people maximum choice.

Negotiate lower prices and make it more transparent


While private option should exist for rich people, single payer affordability and quality depends on a large risk pool.

It will not work unless everybody chips in a little.

Rather than few chipping in a lot.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: FecalFace] #2985436
07/22/19 03:34 PM
07/22/19 03:34 PM
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DING DING DING


Trump undermined the exchanges by threatening to withhold the federal subsidies for
low earners and then went and killed the individual mandate which skewed the risk pools.

premium costs started to expand wildly again after years of slowing

but it's obama's fault!


It’s like the GZA coming on after U-God
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: afoaf] #2985455
07/22/19 04:02 PM
07/22/19 04:02 PM
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That just proves the effects of people making their own choices.

You're going to need to outvote them to take those choices away from them.


#sowhat
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: GDaddy] #2985459
07/22/19 04:07 PM
07/22/19 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GDaddy
That just proves the effects of people making their own choices.

You're going to need to outvote them to take those choices away from them.



you hit the button, G!!!

but, yes, I see what you're saying....the problem is people making choices that
cost us all more than necessary.


It’s like the GZA coming on after U-God
Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment [Re: afoaf] #2985471
07/22/19 04:15 PM
07/22/19 04:15 PM
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Uhh, not everyone. It's not costing them more. And the numbers of them are not so insignificant that their choices have no effect on the users.


#sowhat
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