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How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? #2984044
07/19/19 01:43 PM
07/19/19 01:43 PM
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casa_mugrienta Offline OP
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I have heard twice now this is not at all uncommon.

Wasn't there a guy on Craigslist a while back claiming he had tons of files and would cut whatever you wanted + glassing for like $350?

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984065
07/19/19 02:03 PM
07/19/19 02:03 PM
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i assume its very rampant

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984086
07/19/19 02:53 PM
07/19/19 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by casa_mugrienta
I have heard twice now this is not at all uncommon.

Wasn't there a guy on Craigslist a while back claiming he had tons of files and would cut whatever you wanted + glassing for like $350?


I remember that. I seriously doubt he had all the files he claimed. He's more likely just taking a look at the board on-line and copying the outline and then pasting on a rocker/bottom/rails that he thinks will fool the average dumb surfer. Most surfers don't see past the outline, so if you get the outline similar, you've probably got a sale re the stupid. Buyer beware.

Crappy model. One that smacks of desperation. I would be surprised if the guy is still around.

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984088
07/19/19 02:59 PM
07/19/19 02:59 PM
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I'm sure it happens all the time to the big guys who distribute their files multiple places.

There's a guy that frequents a spot I surf who claims to get a Lost Rocket knockoff from some dude in Oceanside for cheap. No Lost logo, just the dudes logo.


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Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984096
07/19/19 03:07 PM
07/19/19 03:07 PM
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what do u think theguys who own the machines dont take a peek? the best way ashapers get sbetter is own a machine and cut boards.tihs has accelerated more than a few careers including a few top guys

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984104
07/19/19 03:18 PM
07/19/19 03:18 PM
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Rocket is a bad example as it may be one of the more knocked off boards around. Heck, even Novak has a model called the “Knock it”

That said, it’s a game of lawyers and clearly hurts the little guy more than the big guy.

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984120
07/19/19 03:41 PM
07/19/19 03:41 PM
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There's no lawyers.

And the moment there were two shapers in the world the second shaper copied the first one.

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: sd_101] #2984122
07/19/19 03:43 PM
07/19/19 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sd_101
Rocket is a bad example as it may be one of the more knocked off boards around. Heck, even Novak has a model called the “Knock it”

That said, it’s a game of lawyers and clearly hurts the little guy more than the big guy.



It was actually a Rocket variant

Grocket
Squashit
Suckit

Just can't remember exactly which one.


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Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984131
07/19/19 03:54 PM
07/19/19 03:54 PM
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theres no lawyers it is what it is. not cheating it comes from handling boards every day. ur gonna pick up ideas without even tryin. every shaping god didnt always have a machine and they took their boards to be cut byb other guys who shaped and owned machines.also some of these guys cleaned up files for these shaping gods too. see how good some of these machine owners got a few years later. hint hint at least afew of these previous machine owners make the boards the guys on tour ride and r the biggest names in shaping today.

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: i_shapes] #2984132
07/19/19 03:54 PM
07/19/19 03:54 PM
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do you sign any NDA type contracts with outfits you cut for?


It’s like the GZA coming on after U-God
Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984134
07/19/19 03:55 PM
07/19/19 03:55 PM
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It's rampant, for sure.

Some of my thoughts:

Anecdote: XTR gets files from tons of shapers, but only one (Rusty) seems to require a password-protected CNC file be used, and that it be destroyed after use. There's some honor / trust system that folks seem to be working on, because they think they'll all look out for one another, but they're neglecting some obvious truths here:

Thieves are out there, surfers are selfish, hackers are real, and bad IP protection is bad business practice.

How many shapers are likely storing all of their cad / cnc files on a hard disk, unencrypted?

How many don't have any redundancy? I know one major shaper who recently lost all his, and needed to recreate them... likely from scratch.

How many shapers are tech savvy? (I truly don't know, but I'm guessing very few)

When shapers made a decision to use CAD to design and build surfboards, many also decided not to (or didn't know to) put protections in place while enabling the larger production volume and margins.

More of my thoughts here: https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2974942#Post2974942

Kinda frustrated this is even a question, given that there are so many ways / services to help shapers with this issue.

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: jkb] #2984142
07/19/19 04:03 PM
07/19/19 04:03 PM
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I would think a non-compete would be as valuable as an NDA

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: afoaf] #2984144
07/19/19 04:04 PM
07/19/19 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by afoaf
do you sign any NDA type contracts with outfits you cut for?


I have. Rare. The one I did sign was about ten pages. I was going "seriously?" roflmao The irony here is the guys who made me sign the NDA have ripped off a number of designs from other shapers.

One of the bigger names out there just sent me the files and turned me loose. The files for some of these outfits get sent all over the world. I'm frequently asked to send files to Europe, Oz, wherever. The Migrant Foam Workers tour. It's pointless to try and curtail the spread really. Tons of guys have their grubby hands on the files. One employee with a thumb drive and few minutes can walk out with all the goodies. Send them wherever via email.

The reality is, there are no secrets. The moment something gains a reputation for working, there are a hundred guys (more) measuring it up, knocking it off and then trying to refine it. (or maybe fvcking it up)

You can't stop it. They never could. They never will.

With out ever seeing the files, someone with a scanner can buy/borrow a board and make a file. Someone who is good at mapping a board can just measure it up and connect the dots in the software and get pretty darn close. All the file security in the world can't stop that.





Last edited by i_shapes; 07/19/19 05:24 PM.
Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2984238
07/19/19 05:50 PM
07/19/19 05:50 PM
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Seems like another negative thread by my buddy casa

At the risk of being all about me I can add a lot of information

The DSD program cost 1,250.00

You were given a lesson by a designated shaper

Lots of support given by Eric Arakawa world wide

You had to attach a "Key" to your computer to keep a security virus from damaging it - no pirating this program .

I can continue , if this "Forum " wants me too . ;-)

Re: How common is stealing or tweaking other shaper's files? [Re: i_shapes] #2984298
07/19/19 06:45 PM
07/19/19 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by i_shapes


And the moment there were two shapers in the world the second shaper copied the first one.



roflmao


Nobody surfs here anymore..........it's too crowded

shaka
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