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Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Hopeless] #2906692
01/31/19 05:14 PM
01/31/19 05:14 PM
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So is the FutureFlex tech that Hayden's use "real" carbon?

https://www.haydenshapes.com/technology/futureflex/

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: nightfly] #2906715
01/31/19 05:29 PM
01/31/19 05:29 PM
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I'm shipping 2 boards that a customer requested the infamous black stripe on this week drowning

Guilty

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: nightfly] #2906738
01/31/19 05:43 PM
01/31/19 05:43 PM
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Norf Cackalacka
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Originally Posted By: nightfly
So is the FutureFlex tech that Hayden's use "real" carbon?

https://www.haydenshapes.com/technology/futureflex/



I do believe it is though I haven't seen a broken GSI version up close but I assume those were real. GSI is at Cobra so lots of carbon done cheaply there. And done pretty good too, except for glued in fin boxes. Many problems occurred at GSI Now most stock HSs at Surftech, same factory though. I assume slightly higher production costs w/ more QC. Cobra owns portion of Surftech

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Greg Griffin] #2906739
01/31/19 05:44 PM
01/31/19 05:44 PM
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Norf Cackalacka
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Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
I'm shipping 2 boards that a customer requested the infamous black stripe on this week drowning

Guilty


You're to be shamed walked down A1A drowning wink

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Hopeless] #2906758
01/31/19 05:59 PM
01/31/19 05:59 PM
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Lost, CI, R. FW, whoever, for the price of a couple 3" 4oz carbon strips, and the $$ charged, may as well as its all about the buck.
However, buyer beware lol, unless strategically placed, carbon is pretty ineffective on a HPSB. Tail patches, strips on deck or bottom, those are pretty much just for show, total gimmick for the look at me crowd and waste of $, IMO.

You'd be better off running strips of 's' cloth in those same places for more strength....

I'm sure some of the pop outs and maybe even more popular brands just have a rice paper lam that looks like carbon fiber glassed on because its cheaper and they know it doesn't do a thing.

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: surfwhere] #2907117
02/01/19 06:12 AM
02/01/19 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: surfwhere
People were tired of the wood look

Hypto Krypto was killing FW and had worldwide distribution via GSI

FW had no real answer at the time for the HK

Shops were bummed on FW as was general public

More brands coming up and more brands to begin building in Asia to be even more competition with FW (and GSI) in profit and production numbers

HK made lots of those push carbon and carbon looks

SciPhi and LFT checks the boxes plus manufacturing cost savings by using no wood, less glass which also makes for faster cycle times, Slater name puts it over the top

Saying it was carbon would be false advertising

Many buy on looks without dorking on the internet to learn it's not

For those that do surf the web, FW use of the term "aerospace composite" while its colored grey in the graphic leads to ambiguity for the rest of the black on the board

Not telling anyone who doesn't ask is business like everything else FW.



I dont think so, when did the Hypto Krypto first come out 2012? or earlier? (earliest video on youtube is 2012)

Firewire didn't even try to produce a similar shape/board to compete with it

Firewire Sweet potato a very different board but in the same fun type vein came out about 2010 and quickly became one of FW best selling models, if there was any slow down in FW sales it was after the Taj hype but before the Sweet Potato came out.(so prior to 2010)

As prior to the Sweet Potato it was only Taja's boards that really took off, with scattered sales of models like Dominator, Spitfire, Flexfire.

And then about 2013 Tomo started doing FW boards, which really made Firewire more widely ridden

Then off course Kelly came in and models like the ScPhi took off


The construction has really been an ongoing evolution that is still happening.

FST which didn't change to much apart from losing the venting plug FST has basically evolved into Helium which judging by the website looks like will replace FST all together. (which is kind of sad but i do like Hellium the best)

LFT is really just an evolution from Rapidfire and that other tech that Taj use to ride with the centre springer, first it was Rapid fire with the bamboo decks that looked horrible and cheap, then they went to white rapid fire and then got rid of it and replaced it with LFT.

Then you have Timbertek.

They are all just constrictions aimed at different needs/markets. (they have always had three different types)

LFT is aimed more at the traditional market, the racing stripe thing just helps to give that centred stringer look, instead of an all plane white board. (yeah sure its just buying in on current fashion)

Then FST/Helium is more aimed at those wanting a more durable board.

Timbertek is kind of more aimed at that natural hipster type market.

IMHO the evolution has been quite good.

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: indodreams] #2907180
02/01/19 02:30 PM
02/01/19 02:30 PM
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Most consumers don't microscope design. They buy what pleases the eye either on the rack or via marketing. Tomo and then the KS Sci Phi was the answer in that genre, Mann shapes didn't resonate like watching Craig Anderson so traditional FW customers were exiting. Mann shapes are good sellers though but not HK level. Epoxy lasting longer and having a longer buying cycle has had a big impact on unit sales, especially when participation and participants changing. Hayden has yet to be able to follow up with a significant design. It will be hard to replicate that kind off success. I have put a sales experiment in place just a few days ago to see where he's at

From a FW perspective the evolution of tech has been good, especially LFT being closer to traditional constructions in look and feel. From a casual consumer view FW constructions had become passe and niche. LFT was something wanted by those trying to remain true to the brand and for attracting new customers. From a cost of doing business point of view with some knowledge of labor and material costs I see other advances in their business model. The true cost of a LFT is a boon when compared to the mantras they heavily marketed for years, but yes an evolution. Many now building in Asia are evolving too

Their consignment inventory practice is not as much of an advantage as it once was. Many new and large players in that arena selling more economical higher margin products. The epoxy board category that FW owned for many years (after gunning for Surftech who almost died if not for paddleboards) is becoming more and more diverse. If you look close you may notice more "stripes" this year by looking at inventory evolutions, some locales it will be more prominent than others.


Last edited by surfwhere; 02/01/19 04:12 PM. Reason: direction of discussion
Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: indodreams] #2907248
02/01/19 05:07 PM
02/01/19 05:07 PM
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LI,NY/ TI,NC
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Originally Posted By: indodreams
Originally Posted By: surfwhere
People were tired of the wood look

Hypto Krypto was killing FW and had worldwide distribution via GSI

FW had no real answer at the time for the HK

Shops were bummed on FW as was general public

More brands coming up and more brands to begin building in Asia to be even more competition with FW (and GSI) in profit and production numbers

HK made lots of those push carbon and carbon looks

SciPhi and LFT checks the boxes plus manufacturing cost savings by using no wood, less glass which also makes for faster cycle times, Slater name puts it over the top

Saying it was carbon would be false advertising

Many buy on looks without dorking on the internet to learn it's not

For those that do surf the web, FW use of the term "aerospace composite" while its colored grey in the graphic leads to ambiguity for the rest of the black on the board

Not telling anyone who doesn't ask is business like everything else FW.



I dont think so, when did the Hypto Krypto first come out 2012? or earlier? (earliest video on youtube is 2012)

Firewire didn't even try to produce a similar shape/board to compete with it

Firewire Sweet potato a very different board but in the same fun type vein came out about 2010 and quickly became one of FW best selling models, if there was any slow down in FW sales it was after the Taj hype but before the Sweet Potato came out.(so prior to 2010)

As prior to the Sweet Potato it was only Taja's boards that really took off, with scattered sales of models like Dominator, Spitfire, Flexfire.

And then about 2013 Tomo started doing FW boards, which really made Firewire more widely ridden

Then off course Kelly came in and models like the ScPhi took off


The construction has really been an ongoing evolution that is still happening.

FST which didn't change to much apart from losing the venting plug FST has basically evolved into Helium which judging by the website looks like will replace FST all together. (which is kind of sad but i do like Hellium the best)

LFT is really just an evolution from Rapidfire and that other tech that Taj use to ride with the centre springer, first it was Rapid fire with the bamboo decks that looked horrible and cheap, then they went to white rapid fire and then got rid of it and replaced it with LFT.

Then you have Timbertek.

They are all just constrictions aimed at different needs/markets. (they have always had three different types)

LFT is aimed more at the traditional market, the racing stripe thing just helps to give that centred stringer look, instead of an all plane white board. (yeah sure its just buying in on current fashion)

Then FST/Helium is more aimed at those wanting a more durable board.

Timbertek is kind of more aimed at that natural hipster type market.

IMHO the evolution has been quite good.



and the alternator.. that was my first firewire in early 2000s.. board was really good

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Hopeless] #2907398
02/01/19 09:24 PM
02/01/19 09:24 PM
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@Surfwhere

Yeah id agree with most of that.

I think we have to remember the HK is pretty unique in how popular it was/is it would surely have to be up there as one of the best selling boards of the last 15 years.

BTW. i wonder if the extra durability has had an impact on sales cycle?

For me it hasn't really changed how many boards i buy, i still buy board regularly but i just have more boards now, but maybe for guys not into buying as many boards it's a thing?


@Kdropin...yeah 100% forgot the alternator

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Hopeless] #2907482
02/02/19 02:08 AM
02/02/19 02:08 AM
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I would asume DHD's. He/they cant afford good blanks, he/they paint their stringers... probably using a print for the "carbon tail patches"....

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Hopeless] #2907485
02/02/19 02:16 AM
02/02/19 02:16 AM
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West of the Atlantic. East of...
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Boards with black stripes go faster. Its a proven fact. Same goes for red boards.


What's the difference between conservatives and liberals?

Conservatives get angry when you lie to them. Liberals get angry when you tell
them the truth.
Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: GDaddy] #2907494
02/02/19 02:35 AM
02/02/19 02:35 AM
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Tuna Town/Baja
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Originally Posted By: GDaddy
He's not wrong. Graphics made to look like carbon tow have been around for years. It's kinda like when the pros used to ride boards with glass-ons but which also have black "FCS" dots painted on the blank so that it would look like they were riding an FCS finset.


more for obligations vs affect

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: surfwhere] #2907545
02/02/19 11:53 AM
02/02/19 11:53 AM
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New shop under construction shot of customer requested black stripe boards :




4000k ceiling lights cast a slight yellow

Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: Greg Griffin] #2907570
02/02/19 02:29 PM
02/02/19 02:29 PM
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Your mom�s house
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Quote:
4000k ceiling lights cast a slight yellow


Right because those FW LFTs dont yellow like PU.


�No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn�

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Re: Let's list all the boards out there with fake carbon [Re: GromsDad] #2908240
02/04/19 04:21 AM
02/04/19 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Boards with black stripes go faster. Its a proven fact. Same goes for red boards.



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