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Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: indodreams] #2880577
11/28/18 08:44 AM
11/28/18 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: indodreams
..
Close id put it like this

1..Premium Artisan. Almost always built locally, although occasionally imported at great cost from a "core source".
2.. Premium EPS/Epoxy composite. Usually built overseas, but some built locally..
3.. Top brand PU/PE. Mostly built locally and some EPS/Epoxy non composite.
4.. Smaller local brand PU/PE built locally
5.. PU/PE backyard boards
6.. Built in Asia PU/PE
7.. Low end epoxy - typically funboard, built overseas. Although I have seen a few surfers, quite competent on Vessel brand shortboards - super cheap.
8.. Soft boards, built overseas.

You could also squeeze in a whole lot of PU/PE boards built in places like Bali little cheaper most of them fairly decent boards.


The market has spoken. This is what we have been handed from an unregulated market. Surfboard industry is very mature now with nothing game changing happening. There have been a number of good fin box designs put into production, but again the market has decided - FCS and Future are the incumbents.

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Mr J] #2880592
11/28/18 01:28 PM
11/28/18 01:28 PM
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Palm Coast , Florida
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Fusion box enables tunable custom fins .

Available at most glass shops .



Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Greg Griffin] #2880959
11/29/18 07:59 AM
11/29/18 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
Fusion box enables tunable custom fins .

Available at most glass shops .

...


yes that is true, however the market has not accepted it and instead has favoured its successor the FCS II. Regardless of whether one likes the FCS II or not we have to give FCS credit for making a clever and successful transition to a new system. I say clever because they made something which looks more substantial than the flimsy looking twin tabs. I say "looks" because unless they have been subjected to controlled measured impact in a materials lab we don't know for sure that they are a more robust system, although I think they probably are. Plus they have done it in a backwards compatible way to ease transition cost of twin tab owners.

I've had a number of custom boards from Gold Coast builder Dave Verrall, all had my requested custom fin positions, but he doesn't offer what you do - custom fins to match the board. In fact I don't know anyone who does. Sure some of them have been able to come up with a one size fits all signature shapers fin, but they haven't been able to take it as far as a fin to match each of their models. Anyway most of my custom order correspondence with Dave has been mostly done by email, although I have met him once at his location. I remember one thing he said from our only phone conversation - "most surfers do not want adjustable fins". I remember being taken aback, but after some thought can see why that is the case.

What you do Greg is quite unique and gives you market distinction - although you are presenting your customers with the perplexity of where to place their fins, you have at least relieved them of the quandary of what fin size and shape to choose and the potential cost burden of trial and error fin purchase. Moving fins an 1/8" here or there is cheaper, but I suspect some of your customers don't do that.

What the mass market does seem willing and able to handle is the option to move a single fin back and forth in a slotted box and that is the current situation for most longboard offerings.

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Mr J] #2880973
11/29/18 01:06 PM
11/29/18 01:06 PM
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"What the mass market does seem willing and able to handle is the option to move a single fin back and forth in a slotted box and that is the current situation for most longboard offerings."

Surfers learned that movement changes the ride a long time before FCS and Futures appeared , so it stayed .

FCS and Futures were able to erase that knowledge from multi fin users . Replacing that with buying many sets to Dial your board in , such an extreme change is why most don't know how Dialed in they could be .
Some movement will help find that , but there would be a loss in sales since this option may eliminate your need for a new set of fins .

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Mr J] #2881119
11/29/18 07:03 PM
11/29/18 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mr J
Originally Posted By: indodreams
..
Close id put it like this

1..Premium Artisan. Almost always built locally, although occasionally imported at great cost from a "core source".
2.. Premium EPS/Epoxy composite. Usually built overseas, but some built locally..
3.. Top brand PU/PE. Mostly built locally and some EPS/Epoxy non composite.
4.. Smaller local brand PU/PE built locally
5.. PU/PE backyard boards
6.. Built in Asia PU/PE
7.. Low end epoxy - typically funboard, built overseas. Although I have seen a few surfers, quite competent on Vessel brand shortboards - super cheap.
8.. Soft boards, built overseas.

You could also squeeze in a whole lot of PU/PE boards built in places like Bali little cheaper most of them fairly decent boards.


The market has spoken. This is what we have been handed from an unregulated market. Surfboard industry is very mature now with nothing game changing happening. There have been a number of good fin box designs put into production, but again the market has decided - FCS and Future are the incumbents.
What do you mean This is what we have been handed from an unregulated market. What sort of regulation would you have suggested?


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Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2881134
11/29/18 07:19 PM
11/29/18 07:19 PM
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I personally, and Im sure lots of other surfers, like having the option of different fins. Even though Greg can create a fin that works well with his board design, it might not suit the surfing of the surfer. Sometimes I like a wider fin for speed and sometimes I like a more upright fin for quick turns. I can carry a handful of fins with 1 board and have a great time in almost any condition. Alternatively, a board with glass on fins is cool, but it puts a limit the board. I think fin placement is an interesting conversation and I can see the benefits of a shaper fine tuning the fin placement to the surfers foot size, stance, type of wave, etc but I think I will just leave it up to the shaper that the fins are in the right spot.

I think of it like fins on a surfboard, is like tires and rims on a car you can buy different tires and rims that will change the ride of the car. Thinner tire, bigger rims (rides rough), bigger tire smaller rim (rides smooth), then there is all-terrain, mud terrain, snow tires, etc for different kinds of conditions. Even tires engineered to handle rain better.

You could also adjust the suspension to make the car ride differently (I would equate that to adjusting the density of the board PU/EPS).

Adjusting where the tires actually sit on the frame of a vehicle is like adjusting fin placement. Like how a jeep wrangler has the tire situated closer together (for tighter turns and off roading), whereas a ford super duty super-cab has the tires spread out (for better towing and load bearing). I guess you could adjust the tire placement to suit the driver and where they drive (tighter turning for whipping into parking spots or parking in small parking spots (like downtown LA or Europe), etc. Or you can just buy the car stock.

Just something to think about for the people that dont see the similarities in surfboards and vehicles.

Also, did you know that Bob Simmons referred to his surfboards as "machines". thought


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Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Mr J] #2881164
11/29/18 08:08 PM
11/29/18 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mr J
. In fact I don't know anyone who does. Sure some of them have been able to come up with a one size fits all signature shapers fin, but they haven't been able to take it as far as a fin to match each of their models.


Von Sol does.

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: deforest] #2881177
11/29/18 08:25 PM
11/29/18 08:25 PM
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Your influenses have never experienced what i have .

That's what I am sharing with my customers .

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Greg Griffin] #2881356
11/30/18 12:58 AM
11/30/18 12:58 AM
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Having had many boards before replaceable fins, it's funny how I never complained about fins until I got FCS with a board. After they started making fins out of other materials then you went about trying to find ones the felt close to glass on.

Was making their own fins a good income source for a surfboard factory?

Were most glass on fins being made in Asia before FCS or was FCS the cause for most fin making to go overseas?

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: surfwhere] #2881370
11/30/18 01:29 AM
11/30/18 01:29 AM
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There was no mark up for fins until FCS

Thats what made all builders switch $$$$

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: surfwhere] #2881444
11/30/18 05:51 AM
11/30/18 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: surfwhere
Having had many boards before replaceable fins, it's funny how I never complained about fins until I got FCS with a board. After they started making fins out of other materials then you went about trying to find ones the felt close to glass on.


So true

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2881457
11/30/18 07:51 AM
11/30/18 07:51 AM
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Hear ya Surfwhere!
It was very hard to accept fin systems over glass ons.Then all of a sudden there's an upcharge on glass ons because factories were paying less for fcs and pushing the product! More $$$ indeed!

I remember when Chuck at True Ames Fins pretty much threw in the towel and started having his fins made in asia. He couldn't compete with the asian made pricing. Seemed like he had a tough time dealing with that. He put so much hard work into his craft, he had his heart in every set of fins he made! He had such a cool shop and good group of fin makers working for him. Circa mid-late 90's?For years he made fins of all kinds sailboard, surfboard,long short, etc. Supplied quite a few board makers with all of their glass on fins. And when the fin system companies were popping up , they all wanted fiberglass fins for their systems, they would goto him to make prototypes. Then asia, bye, bye.

Same with Maui Fin Co, and also Rainbow Fins, each having an equally large clientele base all with a core group of employees dedicated to the craft of making fins. Bitchen times in the industy!

Now, all the fins seem to be made in asia, by whomever, that don't know whatever, with the profits and proceeds going to business dudes that just got into the 'surfing lifestyle' to make some cheese and say they surf! Ha!

Think of how cheap it costs to have those little fcs plugs made in asia? by the thousands? Makes sense on one hand, yet it puts a lot of small businesses out of business on the other.

Another reason its so important to shop local, support your local shaper, etc.


Anyone remember some of these fin systems?
O'fishl
Red-X
Speed Fins
Lok-Box

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: Cosmogenic] #2881459
11/30/18 08:08 AM
11/30/18 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cosmogenic
Originally Posted By: surfwhere
Having had many boards before replaceable fins, it's funny how I never complained about fins until I got FCS with a board. After they started making fins out of other materials then you went about trying to find ones the felt close to glass on.


So true


You never complained about your fins because we didn't know any better, the knowledge of fins by surfers and even shapers was nothing compared to now.

Imagine how many boards with glass in fins we had that either didn't go or just needed that something extra or didn't feel quite right would have been greatly improved or could;d have even been magic boards if we could have swapped the fins.

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2881460
11/30/18 09:08 AM
11/30/18 09:08 AM
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I'd never want to go back to the days before fin systems. I love mixing and matching fins with boards for different conditions. Sometimes I just change them for something different.

Re: Can we talk about the price per unit of overseas manufactured surfboards? [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2881656
11/30/18 05:43 PM
11/30/18 05:43 PM
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I think fin systems have taught me a lot about the importance of fin templates, placement, and materials. That being said, I loved the feel of glass-on fins when everything was working together. I know for a fact I could have made a few boards work better with a fin system as opposed to the glass-ons they came with.

Also with certain fins systems like Red-X and Lokbox, I was able to increased the range of certain boards significantly by adjusting the fin placement. Although both of those systems had their flaws, I really enjoyed fine tuning the placement for the conditions and my surfing style. Now with FCS and Futures fixed in place (for the most part), I usually spend more time adjusting to the board. The benefit of that is making you a more versatile surfer.


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