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Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone

Posted By: Wheelhouse

Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 04:53 AM

R U fking kidding.

His plan would reinstate the individual mandate, a tax on people who donít have insurance that was part of the federal Affordable Care Act. Congress revoked it in 2017, allowing people to opt out of having health insurance without a penalty.

Newsomís announcement Monday includes a budget proposal to expand Medi-Cal eligibility to young adults living in the country illegally. Currently, children without legal status are eligible for Medi-Cal benefits until they turn 19. Newsom wants to extend that age limit to age 26.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:23 AM

The horror.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:29 AM

He's so generous (with other peoples money)!
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:31 AM

Love watching Trumptard heads exploding over California becoming an actual civilized Western Country.

Move to Floriduh and live with your people.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:44 AM

Iím just here for the conservative tears dancing
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:51 AM

Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Love watching Trumptard heads exploding over California becoming an actual civilized Western Country.

Move to Floriduh and live with your people.

You're insane

Fining people who can't afford insurance while giving "free" insurance to people who aren't even citizens?

I understand you're always down with handouts, but why would you want to make those who are already poor have more costs?
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap

So instead just make everyone pay for it by paying companies that are picked and chosen by the government and have no real market controls on their pricing. Oh yeah, these people aren't even citizens. Actual citizens will be fined for not being able to afford insurance.

Yeah, that's the ticket
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Love watching Trumptard heads exploding over California becoming an actual civilized Western Country.

Move to Floriduh and live with your people.

You're insane

Fining people who can't afford insurance while giving "free" insurance to people who aren't even citizens?

I understand you're always down with handouts, but why would you want to make those who are already poor have more costs?


Its not a fvcking hand out. You get health insurance for less money. And everybodys covered so the ERs dont get clogged. And people are not dying.
Hows that bad?

Whoís firing people who canít afford insurance wtf are you even talking about.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 02:29 PM

Our doofus governor and democrat controlled legislature imposed the employee mandate at the state level as soon as it was removed at the federal level. The penalty is at the state level not. Sounds like California is fooking its citizens over the same way.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Love watching Trumptard heads exploding over California becoming an actual civilized Western Country.

Move to Floriduh and live with your people.

You're insane

Fining people who can't afford insurance while giving "free" insurance to people who aren't even citizens?

I understand you're always down with handouts, but why would you want to make those who are already poor have more costs?


Its not a fvcking hand out. You get health insurance for less money. And everybodys covered so the ERs dont get clogged. And people are not dying.
Hows that bad?

Whoís firing people who canít afford insurance wtf are you even talking about.

Giving free insurance to illegal immigrants is absolutely a handout, especially when citizens are fitting the bill AND getting FINED for not having insurance. This isn't EVERYBODY at all, it is a small number of people.

ERs will continue to get clogged regardless. Ever been to an ER? It's not a bunch of illegal immigrant children there, it's the same people that aren't illegal, can't afford insurance, and are being fined because they can't afford to pay insurance.

And bums. Always bums
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 02:40 PM

Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap

So instead just make everyone pay for it by paying companies that are picked and chosen by the government and have no real market controls on their pricing. Oh yeah, these people aren't even citizens. Actual citizens will be fined for not being able to afford insurance.

Yeah, that's the ticket

I am in no way endorsing the individual mandate, especially within the context of our current crap system, as a better alternative. We already have medi-cal that covers the poor. Anything that promotes preventative care and keeps people out of ERs is a step in the right direction IMO
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.


Wow. You are just delusional. Illegals should go back to the country they came from for medical coverage and not impose on the citizens of the country where they are trespassing.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap


I thought illegal immigrants didnít cost us any money...
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:03 PM

This is what Newsome ran on. Shouldnít be a surprise to anyone.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap


I thought illegal immigrants didnít cost us any money...

Um, ok . . . . who said that confused2
Posted By: laidback

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:08 PM

What's that called when everyone is forced to throw their money in a common pot & some a-hole governor with a haircut spreads it out to everyone, how he sees fit
Posted By: Sharkbiscuit

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Yeah, better that they just end up in the ER with bills that they will never pay and end up being eaten by private enterprise and taxpayers. That's the ticket foreheadslap


I thought illegal immigrants didnít cost us any money...

Um, ok . . . . who said that confused2


Don't you understand that if someone says overall, illegal immigrants generate more revenue than they cost the state, that this means a singular person in a state of 40 million people doesn't see any one line item increase?

Next you'll tell me it's cheaper to be stuck paying for preventative care than for ER care.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.

No, this is where you don't get it.

I don't get health coverage for my money. I pay for other people's health coverage for my money who haven't gone through the correct process to come here.

You are talking about the theory of socialized medicine, I am talking about the reality of what Newsome said
Posted By: heelnipstr

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.

No, this is where you don't get it.

I don't get health coverage for my money. I pay for other people's health coverage for my money who haven't gone through the correct process to come here.

You are talking about the theory of socialized medicine, I am talking about the reality of what Newsome said


you sure obsess about 'your money' a lot of the time for not being a worshipper of the dollar.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.

No, this is where you don't get it.

I don't get health coverage for my money. I pay for other people's health coverage for my money who haven't gone through the correct process to come here.

You are talking about the theory of socialized medicine, I am talking about the reality of what Newsome said


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.

Delusional

This specific policy is patently more expensive for the majority of people. Not even arguable.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:16 PM

California has TONS of money to throw at everyone.

Just get here, and you're golden. We only want to "help" you.

Sanctuary for All!!

rolleyes
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
California has TONS of money to throw at everyone.

Just get here, and you're golden. We only want to "help" you.

Sanctuary for All!!

rolleyes

WE HAVE A RAINY DAY FUND!!!
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.

No, this is where you don't get it.

I don't get health coverage for my money. I pay for other people's health coverage for my money who haven't gone through the correct process to come here.

You are talking about the theory of socialized medicine, I am talking about the reality of what Newsome said


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.


CA is losing insurance carriers each new year, not gaining any at all.

How is that going to reduce competition that was one of the supposed perks of O'care?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
California has TONS of money to throw at everyone.

Just get here, and you're golden. We only want to "help" you.

Sanctuary for All!!

rolleyes

WE HAVE A RAINY DAY FUND!!!


Well, it has been raining up in Sacmo lately, so.......

taxpayers are dancing
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Our doofus governor and democrat controlled legislature imposed the employee mandate at the state level as soon as it was removed at the federal level. The penalty is at the state level not. Sounds like California is fooking its citizens over the same way.

So now youíre no longer for states rights? dancing
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: heelnipstr
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Itís good that you are not a neo-fash nativist garbage.

I canít imagine what you would be saying about immigrants if you were.

You are getting fvcking health coverage for your money.

The fact that everybody is covered is just a bonus.

Illegal immigrants also work dummy. If their employers donít want to get them covered, somebody should.

No, this is where you don't get it.

I don't get health coverage for my money. I pay for other people's health coverage for my money who haven't gone through the correct process to come here.

You are talking about the theory of socialized medicine, I am talking about the reality of what Newsome said


you sure obsess about 'your money' a lot of the time for not being a worshipper of the dollar.


Yeah that extra 50Ę he will have to pay for the ILIGULS really twisted his panties.

Never mind the benefits it would bring for the 99% of the population.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.

Delusional

This specific policy is patently more expensive for the majority of people. Not even arguable.


How much more expensive? I bet itís not even a whole dollar per capita.

Which is less than what weíre paying now to support the uninsured.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.

Delusional

This specific policy is patently more expensive for the majority of people. Not even arguable.


Analysis where? And I mean overall - not for some people. How much does the State currently spend to care for the health of illegals? How much would the state spend under this new plan?
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 06:50 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.

Delusional

This specific policy is patently more expensive for the majority of people. Not even arguable.


How much more expensive? I bet itís not even a whole dollar per capita.

Which is less than what weíre paying now to support the uninsured.

A single cent more is too much.

And it won't do anything to alleviate the spending on the uninsured
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:00 PM

Figures you wouldínt give 1Ę to help someone.

EXTORSHN

Your nanny employer is paying way more than 1Ę right now to help the sickly people like Squidley who canít afford to pay for the treatment themselves.



You know A. K. A. for-profit insurance. poke
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:03 PM

I would if it were voluntary

I would if there wasn't already such a large percentage of what I make being "given" for "help already.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Figures you wouldínt give 1Ę to help someone.

EXTORSHN

Your nanny employer is paying way more than 1Ę right now to help the sickly people like Squidley who canít afford to pay for the treatment themselves.



You know A. K. A. Insurance. poke

Oh I'm employed by an insurance company?

Once again, you need to realize we're not arguing socialized medicine in general on this thread, rather a specific policy

And you still haven't answered why you think its ok to fine people who already can't afford insurance for not having insurance
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Feelz.

What's the best financial decision today?

Is it more or less expensive to leave things as they are today? That's all that matters.

Delusional

This specific policy is patently more expensive for the majority of people. Not even arguable.


How much more expensive? I bet itís not even a whole dollar per capita.

Which is less than what weíre paying now to support the uninsured.

A single cent more is too much.

And it won't do anything to alleviate the spending on the uninsured


And you think you understand how the government works? You're paying either way, so wouldn't you like to know which situation costs you more?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:12 PM

I never said youíre employed by an insurance company dummy, I said your nanny employer pays for your insurance so being a low empath ďpatriotĒ you donít give a shit what happens to the rest of the country.

The whole idea of single payer is that all people CAN afford to pay for it.
You pay according to your income.
The only reason you wouldnít pay is because you donít want to.

In which case you should be fined.

Just like if you skip your insurance payment except they would kick you off the plan while in Single Payer everybody is covered regardless.

The Single Payer low cost depends on a large risk pool. More people contribute - the cheaper it gets.

Basics, look it up.

Posted By: mundus

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:15 PM

Yep, all the coservatards just go to the Emergency room, true freeloaders.
Posted By: RWVBWL

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:29 PM

ER vs regular doctor visits?
An interesting point of view,
from thee new Governor of New York City:
Bill De Blasio Announces Health Plan For All New Yorkers

NYC Care?
Great idea!
jam_on

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
I never said youíre employed by an insurance company dummy, I said your nanny employer pays for your insurance so being a low empath ďpatriotĒ you donít give a shit what happens to the rest of the country.

The whole idea of single payer is that all people CAN afford to pay for it.
You pay according to your income.
The only reason you wouldnít pay is because you donít want to.

In which case you should be fined.

Just like if you skip your insurance payment except they would kick you off the plan while in Single Payer everybody is covered regardless.

The Single Payer low cost depends on a large risk pool. More people contribute - the cheaper it gets.

Basics, look it up.


So you're still not coming even close to arguing the facts of this specific matter, instead your'e debating the high level theories about single payer
Posted By: RWVBWL

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 08:45 PM

Per the vid above,
what, $100 million extra, with~out raising taxes further?
And it will guarantee that some 600,000 extra New York City dwellin' folks
can have access to a doctor for preventive or even ER care?
F**k ya!

Tell Thee U.S. Navy that as we are not fightin' China yet in the far western Pacific,
please cancel your order for just 1 of those F~35c's that you bought for $121.2 million(*) every year, ok?


We are now,
instead, going to insure that everyone in New York City
will have access to a doctor, at any~time, no matter how rich or poor you are!!!

Bet~cha that NYC's future health care cost will get even cheaper, just like the cost of those F~35c's.

Ya'all know me, I have an active mind. So I'll ask this, ok?
If we have a Healthy Population, it will ALL become CHEAPER, Cheaper, cheaper
to care for thee local populous, right? Right?

Like how a dude who surfs might drive across thee border of So. Cal. and into Baja California
to ride some waves and then finds out, for some odd reason, that it costs waaay less for the same friggin' medicine, from the same pharm~ie company, to purchase down there in Baja than it does so to buy here in California! WTF?!?

Or will the Doc's start chargin' more,
'cause they can't rip ya/your insurance company off as much,
err, ah, so they will not be makin' as much $$$ to support the wife~y,
(nor pay that monthly alimony) or livin' thee life~style they crave?

Hahaha, tryin' to figure all this out is funny,
but seriously, it is not so, if you are 1 of those 600,00
that New York City Mayor De Blasio is now trying to help...
smile


(*) ~ America's most expensive weapons system just got a little cheaper
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/28/f-35-fig...le-cheaper.html
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
I never said youíre employed by an insurance company dummy, I said your nanny employer pays for your insurance so being a low empath ďpatriotĒ you donít give a shit what happens to the rest of the country.

The whole idea of single payer is that all people CAN afford to pay for it.
You pay according to your income.
The only reason you wouldnít pay is because you donít want to.

In which case you should be fined.

Just like if you skip your insurance payment except they would kick you off the plan while in Single Payer everybody is covered regardless.

The Single Payer low cost depends on a large risk pool. More people contribute - the cheaper it gets.

Basics, look it up.


So you're still not coming even close to arguing the facts of this specific matter, instead your'e debating the high level theories about single payer


Itís not a theory dummy, itís how it works.

You are being provided a service, just like taxes or car insurance, if you donít pay for the service you get fined.

EVERYBODY can afford to pay. If you donít want to pay you get fined because youíre a mooch.

If you donít want to be a part of the Western Kultur, move to Alafuckinbama.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 08:59 PM

Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to obey.


You have a choice to move.

Why live in the most progressive state in the union when you fvcking hate it.

Assimilate or GTFO.

PEOPLE HAVE VOTED. poke
Posted By: mundus

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Then when they get sick or hurt they go to Emergency room and rest of us get to pay for it.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Then when they get sick or hurt they go to Emergency room and rest of us get to pay for it.


"suffer the consequences" doesn't mean much when there are no consequences, or when the consequences are insufficient to coerce compliance.

I know people who have gone commando from the outset because the fines were but a fraction of the alternative of paying the costs for services they never use. Most of us probably know people like that.

Posted By: GromsDad

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Our doofus governor and democrat controlled legislature imposed the employee mandate at the state level as soon as it was removed at the federal level. The penalty is at the state level not. Sounds like California is fooking its citizens over the same way.

So now youíre no longer for states rights? dancing


All for states rights. Trust me, other states are looking better and better all the time than this one. I figure I'll be out of this state within 10 years.
Posted By: mundus

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Our doofus governor and democrat controlled legislature imposed the employee mandate at the state level as soon as it was removed at the federal level. The penalty is at the state level not. Sounds like California is fooking its citizens over the same way.

So now you’re no longer for states rights? dancing


All for states rights. Trust me, other states are looking better and better all the time than this one. I figure I'll be out of this state within 10 years.
Go all the way, leave the country please! I hear Russia is nice, we all know you love their propaganda.
Posted By: rts265

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:31 PM

theres a place for people without insurance:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...eneral-hospital
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Our doofus governor and democrat controlled legislature imposed the employee mandate at the state level as soon as it was removed at the federal level. The penalty is at the state level not. Sounds like California is fooking its citizens over the same way.

So now youíre no longer for states rights? dancing


All for states rights. Trust me, other states are looking better and better all the time than this one. I figure I'll be out of this state within 10 years.


Youíre not going to be safe anywhere in 10 years. roflmao
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Then when they get sick or hurt they go to Emergency room and rest of us get to pay for it.


"suffer the consequences" doesn't mean much when there are no consequences, or when the consequences are insufficient to coerce compliance.

I know people who have gone commando from the outset because the fines were but a fraction of the alternative of paying the costs for services they never use. Most of us probably know people like that.



I donít hang out with criminals and mooches.
Posted By: mundus

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Then when they get sick or hurt they go to Emergency room and rest of us get to pay for it.


"suffer the consequences" doesn't mean much when there are no consequences, or when the consequences are insufficient to coerce compliance.

I know people who have gone commando from the outset because the fines were but a fraction of the alternative of paying the costs for services they never use. Most of us probably know people like that.

Yes, they are called free loading scumbags.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 09:58 PM

No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.


Surfing is dangerous too.

I refuse to pay health care insurance for surfers.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Or, just decline to comply and suffer the consequences.
Then when they get sick or hurt they go to Emergency room and rest of us get to pay for it.


"suffer the consequences" doesn't mean much when there are no consequences, or when the consequences are insufficient to coerce compliance.

I know people who have gone commando from the outset because the fines were but a fraction of the alternative of paying the costs for services they never use. Most of us probably know people like that.

Yes, they are called free loading scumbags.


if one isn't using the services, then I don't think the free loading bit fits.
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 11:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.


Surfing is dangerous too.

I refuse to pay health care insurance for surfers.


What if you are vibed though??
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/08/19 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.


Surfing is dangerous too.

I refuse to pay health care insurance for surfers.


You shouldn't. That's the whole point.
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 02:18 AM

I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 02:47 AM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.


Surfing is dangerous too.

I refuse to pay health care insurance for surfers.


You shouldn't. That's the whole point.


What do you mean you shouldn't?

If you have insurance, you are already paying for smokers, heart attackers and people who take risks.

You okay with that?

You and ifail don't know how risk pools work apparently.

Whether it's provided by eval gubmint or Blue Cross, it works exactly the same.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
No drug users or speeders or tax cheats or smog violators?

Duly noted.


Surfing is dangerous too.

I refuse to pay health care insurance for surfers.


You shouldn't. That's the whole point.


What do you mean you shouldn't?

If you have insurance, you are already paying for smokers, heart attackers and people who take risks.

You okay with that?
And they pay more, bonehead.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 02:51 AM

Surfers pay more?

LOL@U DUM DUM

You actually get cheaper insurance if you are a lancer.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:08 AM

I want to pay for my own risk profiles, not for anyone else's. You should, too.
Posted By: JEwing

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:37 AM

Do you realize that a West Hollywood fag and a Serbian immigrant are the erBB internet tough guys. I hang around for the laughs but you guys need to try surfing, you might like it.
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:53 AM

Originally Posted By: JEwing
Do you realize that a West Hollywood fag and a Serbian immigrant are the erBB internet tough guys. I hang around for the laughs but you guys need to try surfing, you might like it.
GDaddy is gay? Thatís cool
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 05:01 AM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
I want to pay for my own risk profiles, not for anyone else's. You should, too.


If you are semi-healthy, you are paying for somebody else, whether you like it or not.

That's how insurance works and single payer is no different.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: JEwing
Do you realize that a West Hollywood fag and a Serbian immigrant are the erBB internet tough guys. I hang around for the laughs but you guys need to try surfing, you might like it.


I guess your near death experience didn't teach you not to be a racist homophobic xenofuck.

Sad.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 05:24 AM

Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
Originally Posted By: JEwing
Do you realize that a West Hollywood fag and a Serbian immigrant are the erBB internet tough guys. I hang around for the laughs but you guys need to try surfing, you might like it.
GDaddy is gay? Thatís cool


It would be cool but no such luck.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
I want to pay for my own risk profiles, not for anyone else's. You should, too.


If you are semi-healthy, you are paying for somebody else, whether you like it or not.

That's how insurance works and single payer is no different.



That's exactly the problem - the insurance carriers have increasingly been prohibited - by our government - from operating their health insurance programs in the same manner that they operate their other lines - like car insurance or building insurance - where the risk pools are separated by their respective risk profiles.

https://www.actuary.org/content/risk-pooling-how-health-insurance-individual-market-works-0

Quote:
What is ďadverse selectionĒ?
ďAdverse selectionĒ describes a situation in which an insurer (or an insurance market as a whole) attracts a disproportionate share of unhealthy individuals. It occurs because individuals with greater health care needs, when given the opportunity, are more likely to purchase health
insurance and to purchase health insurance with richer benefits than individuals with fewer health care needs.

Why is adverse selection a problem?
Adverse selection increases premiums for everyone in a health insurance plan or market because it results in a pool of enrollees with higher-than-average health care costs. Adverse selection is a byproduct of a voluntary health insurance market in which people can choose whether and when to purchase insurance coverage, depending in part on how their anticipated health care needs compare with the insurance premium charged.

The higher premiums that result from adverse selection, in turn, may lead to more healthy individuals opting out of coverage, which would result in even higher premiums. This process typically is referred to as a ďpremium spiral.Ē Avoiding such spirals requires minimizing adverse selection and instead attracting a broad base of healthy individuals, over which the costs of sick individuals can be spread. Attracting younger adults and healthier people of all ages ultimately will help keep premiums more affordable and stable for all members in the risk pool.



Quote:
What if some plans were allowed to avoid ACA rules altogether?
If some plans were allowed to avoid the ACA rules altogether, then plans competing to enroll the same participants wouldnít be competing under the same rules. Noncompliant plans would likely be structured to be attractive to low-cost enrollees, through fewer required benefits, higher cost- sharing, and premiums that vary by health status.

Higher-cost individuals would tend to want the broader benefits and pre-existing condition protections of ACA-compliant coverage. Rather than having a single risk pool, in which costs are spread broadly, there would be in effect two risk poolsóone for ACA-compliant coverage and one for noncompliant coverage. As a result, average premiums for ACA-compliant coverage could far exceed those of noncompliant coverage, thereby destabilizing the market for compliant coverage. The instability would be exacerbated if market rules facilitate movement of people between the two pools (e.g., if people with noncompliant coverage can easily move to compliant coverage when health care needs arise).


.

Posted By: heelnipstr

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
I want to pay for my own risk profiles, not for anyone else's. You should, too.


If you are semi-healthy, you are paying for somebody else, whether you like it or not.

That's how insurance works and single payer is no different.



That's exactly the problem - the insurance carriers have increasingly been prohibited - by our government - from operating their health insurance programs in the same manner that they operate their other lines - like car insurance or building insurance - where the risk pools are separated by their respective risk profiles.

https://www.actuary.org/content/risk-pooling-how-health-insurance-individual-market-works-0

Quote:
What is ďadverse selectionĒ?
ďAdverse selectionĒ describes a situation in which an insurer (or an insurance market as a whole) attracts a disproportionate share of unhealthy individuals. It occurs because individuals with greater health care needs, when given the opportunity, are more likely to purchase health
insurance and to purchase health insurance with richer benefits than individuals with fewer health care needs.

Why is adverse selection a problem?
Adverse selection increases premiums for everyone in a health insurance plan or market because it results in a pool of enrollees with higher-than-average health care costs. Adverse selection is a byproduct of a voluntary health insurance market in which people can choose whether and when to purchase insurance coverage, depending in part on how their anticipated health care needs compare with the insurance premium charged.

The higher premiums that result from adverse selection, in turn, may lead to more healthy individuals opting out of coverage, which would result in even higher premiums. This process typically is referred to as a ďpremium spiral.Ē Avoiding such spirals requires minimizing adverse selection and instead attracting a broad base of healthy individuals, over which the costs of sick individuals can be spread. Attracting younger adults and healthier people of all ages ultimately will help keep premiums more affordable and stable for all members in the risk pool.



Quote:
What if some plans were allowed to avoid ACA rules altogether?
If some plans were allowed to avoid the ACA rules altogether, then plans competing to enroll the same participants wouldnít be competing under the same rules. Noncompliant plans would likely be structured to be attractive to low-cost enrollees, through fewer required benefits, higher cost- sharing, and premiums that vary by health status.

Higher-cost individuals would tend to want the broader benefits and pre-existing condition protections of ACA-compliant coverage. Rather than having a single risk pool, in which costs are spread broadly, there would be in effect two risk poolsóone for ACA-compliant coverage and one for noncompliant coverage. As a result, average premiums for ACA-compliant coverage could far exceed those of noncompliant coverage, thereby destabilizing the market for compliant coverage. The instability would be exacerbated if market rules facilitate movement of people between the two pools (e.g., if people with noncompliant coverage can easily move to compliant coverage when health care needs arise).


A lot of words that leave out the phrase death panels. Wonder why !

.

Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 03:59 PM

It pays to be a winner. That's how we humans got here.

In car insurance terms they have a separate risk pool for the superusers. aka "assigned risk"
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.


I donít think itís a great idea, but itís coming because too many people have very negative outcomes from healthcare being rationed with the current structure

Once we go down that road, different and potentially worse problems may emerge
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.


I donít think itís a great idea, but itís coming because too many people have very negative outcomes from healthcare being rationed with the current structure

Once we go down that road, different and potentially worse problems may emerge


slippERY slOPE!
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.

I guess you've never seen the history of tax funded, federally administered programs
Posted By: jkb

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: JEwing
Do you realize that a West Hollywood fag and a Serbian immigrant are the erBB internet tough guys. I hang around for the laughs but you guys need to try surfing, you might like it.


Damn JEwing, save some pussy for the rest of us, bro.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 11:15 PM

WTF is this "single matter" if not single payer?

You are misconstruing the facts.
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/09/19 11:38 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.

I guess you've never seen the history of tax funded, federally administered programs


I can see that you are ideologically constrained. Effective tax funded, federally administered programs are a significant and vital part of this countryís history and current functioning. To deny that is simply wrong.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 06:20 AM

Do not question a "patriot"!
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.

I guess you've never seen the history of tax funded, federally administered programs


I can see that you are ideologically constrained. Effective tax funded, federally administered programs are a significant and vital part of this countryís history and current functioning. To deny that is simply wrong.

Your sentence is correct except for one, crucial word. "Effective"
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.

I guess you've never seen the history of tax funded, federally administered programs


I can see that you are ideologically constrained. Effective tax funded, federally administered programs are a significant and vital part of this countryís history and current functioning. To deny that is simply wrong.

Your sentence is correct except for one, crucial word. "Effective"


I'm not sure that's the burn you think it is.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
I think tax funded, federally administered healthcare is a great idea. I donít see any downside except for those in for-profit healthcare management, who account for an unreasonable percentage of our healthcare costs. Obamacare has opened the door to this type of medical care and Republicans are probably not going to be able to close it again, regardless of how much money they throw at it.

I guess you've never seen the history of tax funded, federally administered programs


I can see that you are ideologically constrained. Effective tax funded, federally administered programs are a significant and vital part of this countryís history and current functioning. To deny that is simply wrong.

Your sentence is correct except for one, crucial word. "Effective"


You are partially right but the problem is that you think that's by default.

There are many effective government services that prove you wrong.

DEEEMVEEE =\= gubmint
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 05:50 PM

I was at the auto parts store the other day and one of the guys at the counter was discussing health care politics with a customer.

So I asked him - if this store was operated by the federal gov't instead of Napa how do you think that would affect you? Wages, benefits, working conditions, etc.. How would gov't operation of the auto parts business affect the costs of this part that I just bought?

He knows the answer to that question. We all know the answer to that question. If government enterprise is so much cheaper and/or efficient than capitalistic commerce then why aren't we all working for the State?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
I was at the auto parts store the other day and one of the guys at the counter was discussing health care politics with a customer.

So I asked him - if this store was operated by the federal gov't instead of Napa how do you think that would affect you? Wages, benefits, working conditions, etc.. How would gov't operation of the auto parts business affect the costs of this part that I just bought?

He knows the answer to that question. We all know the answer to that question. If government enterprise is so much cheaper and/or efficient than capitalistic commerce then why aren't we all working for the State?


LOL, you asked a guy at an auto parts store about economic impacts of federal management of an auto shop?

First of all, bullshit.

Second of all, did you get his resume and educational experience? I mean, what's his expertise here?

Third, is the auto shop industry the same as healthcare? Do we all put our lives in the hands of the auto shop clerks at NAPA? Are the costs of auto parts so out of control that people literally go bankrupt if their cars break down? Do people die if they can't afford a new set of spark plugs?

Fourth, bullshit.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Gavin Newsome - insurance for the illegals - mandate for everyone - 01/10/19 08:00 PM

No, i didn't ask about his resume nor do I think it's relevant to the question. Compare them on the equal basis - let's assume for the sake of discussion that this guy had 10 years in this job at NAPA. Do you think this retail worker's compensation package and working conditions would be the same, better or worse if he worked for gov't?

And secondly, why should we consider ANY occupation other than military service or public safety to be so important to society that it be treated differently than the commensurate functions in commerce? Mind you, I'm not suggesting a libertarian approach to everything gov't already does but rather the premise that only gov't can adequately deliver this service.
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