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California Cop Killer Caught -

Posted By: Wheelhouse

California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 03:35 AM





Thanks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rh6ND1f3ZQ
Posted By: CCKeith

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 03:45 AM



13:30 O Damn!!!!!! Sheriff lays it down!!!!
Posted By: Wheelhouse

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 04:33 AM

thanks for reposting. couldnt get that to work.

I want to know what the open border camp thinks about this.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 10:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse


I want to know what the open border camp thinks about this.


Fuk those assholes! Damn this shit pisses me off. Tell that young man's brother that we don't need to get this shit under control. No more fuking excuses. Blood is on all of their hands. Same goes for the anti-death penalty crowd. Fuk you too.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 10:40 AM

I can't help but wonder how long it will take the left wing media machine to carry out a seek and destroy mission against this sheriff. Right now they are probably more interested in destroying this sheriff than seeing justice for this murderer. Fuk them too.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse


I want to know what the open border camp thinks about this.


Fuk those assholes! Damn this shit pisses me off. Tell that young man's brother that we don't need to get this shit under control. No more fuking excuses. Blood is on all of their hands. Same goes for the anti-death penalty crowd. Fuk you too.

This mirrors the left when they claim the NRA has blood on their hands.

You have more in common with those you despise than you think!
Posted By: Wheelhouse

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 06:33 PM

thats reaching.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 06:58 PM

Reaching? roflmao roflmao

Itís barely lifting a finger thatís how similar the response is.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 06:59 PM

Should we deport him?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
I can't help but wonder how long it will take the left wing media machine to carry out a seek and destroy mission against this sheriff. Right now they are probably more interested in destroying this sheriff than seeing justice for this murderer. Fuk them too.


I heard a hint that this Sheriff is retiring soon, so the left in CA and Sacmo can't do much to ouster him anymore than he already is out the door himself. I'm sure he's been disgusted with Sanctuary City/State laws for a while now (along with a lot of hushed up cops), and this just ices the cake, AGAIN.

What's even worse are the 6 or 7 other illegal immigrants that helped hide this cop killer and tried to get him back to Mexico.

This is not the first cop (or citizen) to die from multi-deported illegal alien criminals, and it won't be the last as long as Sanctuary laws remain intact, if not more tolerated. They end up with more criminal rights than most citizens. Kinda like Diplomatic Immunity for illegal alien thugs crazy2
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
I can't help but wonder how long it will take the left wing media machine to carry out a seek and destroy mission against this sheriff. Right now they are probably more interested in destroying this sheriff than seeing justice for this murderer. Fuk them too.


I heard a hint that this Sheriff is retiring soon, so the left in CA and Sacmo can't do much to ouster him anymore than he already is out the door himself. I'm sure he's been disgusted with Sanctuary City/State laws for a while now (along with a lot of hushed up cops), and this just ices the cake, AGAIN.

What's even worse are the 6 or 7 other illegal immigrants that helped hide this cop killer and tried to get him back to Mexico.

This is not the first cop (or citizen) to die from multi-deported illegal alien criminals, and it won't be the last as long as Sanctuary laws remain intact, if not more tolerated. They end up with more criminal rights than most citizens. Kinda like Diplomatic Immunity for illegal alien thugs crazy2


Man, it's a good thing people here legally don't kill people! We'd really be in trouble then.

On the up side, the few random illegals making headlines sure are taking the heat off America's 3 million Muslims. I've heard here that they all want to kill me.
Posted By: laidback

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 11:03 PM

Stu you're pretty stupid
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/29/18 11:36 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Stu you're pretty stupid


Perhaps, but Surfdog didn't really tell me why sanctuary laws are to blame here. I'd also love to hear how illegals more "criminal rights" than the rest of us. He won't tell me, but maybe you can?
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 12:29 AM

Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.


My question too. The law forbids non-citizens from possessing firearms.

So leftists want us to pass laws against anyone owning, either certain firearms, or all firearms ....even though this episode proves that laws which prevent firearm possession......

....DON'T WORK against criminals. The effect would be to disarm people who want nothing more than to defend themselves.
.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:18 AM

Squid clearly isnít mentally fit to own a firearm. Heís going to pop any day now.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.


My question too. The law forbids non-citizens from possessing firearms.

So leftists want us to pass laws against anyone owning, either certain firearms, or all firearms ....even though this episode proves that laws which prevent firearm possession......

....DON'T WORK against criminals. The effect would be to disarm people who want nothing more than to defend themselves.
.


Almost every illegal firearm starts its life as a legal firearm.
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:32 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.


My question too. The law forbids non-citizens from possessing firearms.

So leftists want us to pass laws against anyone owning, either certain firearms, or all firearms ....even though this episode proves that laws which prevent firearm possession......

....DON'T WORK against criminals. The effect would be to disarm people who want nothing more than to defend themselves.
.


Almost every illegal firearm starts its life as a legal firearm.


Almost every legal firearm starts its life as a legal firearm. The problem is criminals and criminal behavior.
.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.


Do you honestly think that would change with even stricter gun laws?

Only way is to make all gun and ammo ownership completely illegal with huge fines and prison sentences for even SEEING one in possession (other than police and military). No other option would come close to preventing illegal immigrants and/or criminals from carrying. Even THAT strict a policy wouldn't deter it completely. Their would be hoards of stashes all over, without Orwellian watch on every one at every move, 24/7/365.

A liberal progressives Utopian dream come true.

Problem with that dream, is guns and ammo would replace drugs and human traffiking across the Mexican border. So, once again, only criminals would only have weapons.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 01:46 AM

144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


Kind of like asking:

1000 people killed in mass shootings in 2018. How many were killed by NRA members?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 02:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Oddly enough nobody is concerned why undocumented immigrants have easy access to firearms.


Do you honestly think that would change with even stricter gun laws?

Only way is to make all gun and ammo ownership completely illegal with huge fines and prison sentences for even SEEING one in possession (other than police and military). No other option would come close to preventing illegal immigrants and/or criminals from carrying. Even THAT strict a policy wouldn't deter it completely. Their would be hoards of stashes all over, without Orwellian watch on every one at every move, 24/7/365.

A liberal progressives Utopian dream come true.

Problem with that dream, is guns and ammo would replace drugs and human traffiking across the Mexican border. So, once again, only criminals would only have weapons.


Not if we build the WALL! Maybe that's the negotiation we need to have - trade guns for the wall. I'd entertain that discussion.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


Kind of like asking:

1000 people killed in mass shootings in 2018. How many were killed by NRA members?


Nobody is accusing the NRA of being murderers. Weíre accusing the shit policies and agendas they push of making it easier for murderers to kill.

We can keep legal firearms from becoming illegal firearms by doing things like...

-putting a stop to straw purchases
-making people responsible for securing their weapons properly
-putting a stop to gun show sales and having much stricter requirements for person to person sales.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 02:52 AM

Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


#bluelivesmatter
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 04:04 AM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse


I want to know what the open border camp thinks about this.


Fuk those assholes! Damn this shit pisses me off. Tell that young man's brother that we don't need to get this shit under control. No more fuking excuses. Blood is on all of their hands. Same goes for the anti-death penalty crowd. Fuk you too.

This mirrors the left when they claim the NRA has blood on their hands.

You have more in common with those you despise than you think!


Same coin. Two sides.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 04:14 AM

Quote:
We can keep legal firearms from becoming illegal firearms by doing things like...

-putting a stop to straw purchases
-making people responsible for securing their weapons properly
-putting a stop to gun show sales and having much stricter requirements for person to person sales.


Are you not aware that all of is already addressed in the law?

Straw purchases are illegal.

Improper storage that results in a crime being committed with your gun is also a crime for gun owner who improperly stored his or her gun.

Person to person sales must go through a licensed firearms dealer.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 04:34 AM

Good use of alliteration in the thread title.
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 05:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
We can keep legal firearms from becoming illegal firearms by doing things like...

-putting a stop to straw purchases
-making people responsible for securing their weapons properly
-putting a stop to gun show sales and having much stricter requirements for person to person sales.


Are you not aware that all of is already addressed in the law?

Straw purchases are illegal.

Improper storage that results in a crime being committed with your gun is also a crime for gun owner who improperly stored his or her gun.

Person to person sales must go through a licensed firearms dealer.


Federally I believe you are correct on the first point. There is a federal law against straw firearm purchases. I'm not so sure there is a federal law about unsafe firearm storage, but I think states everywhere outlaw it. I believe you're not correct on the third point, at least not federally, and not in most states. However, think about it. There is no way to control a firearm transaction between two private citizens. You wouldn't want to either, because that kind of government overreach is autocratic.

Many firearms get inherited upon death. You gonna make that illegal too?

The subject at hand is the murder of this peace officer. There's a law against this murderer possessing a firearm. He's a criminal alien. What good did a law do against someone who was already a criminal?
.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
We can keep legal firearms from becoming illegal firearms by doing things like...

-putting a stop to straw purchases
-making people responsible for securing their weapons properly
-putting a stop to gun show sales and having much stricter requirements for person to person sales.


Are you not aware that all of is already addressed in the law?

Straw purchases are illegal.

Improper storage that results in a crime being committed with your gun is also a crime for gun owner who improperly stored his or her gun.

Person to person sales must go through a licensed firearms dealer.


Federally I believe you are correct on the first point. There is a federal law against straw firearm purchases. I'm not so sure there is a federal law about unsafe firearm storage, but I think states everywhere outlaw it. I believe you're not correct on the third point, at least not federally, and not in most states. However, think about it. There is no way to control a firearm transaction between two private citizens. You wouldn't want to either, because that kind of government overreach is autocratic.

Many firearms get inherited upon death. You gonna make that illegal too?

The subject at hand is the murder of this peace officer. There's a law against this murderer possessing a firearm. He's a criminal alien. What good did a law do against someone who was already a criminal?
.


Sure, ok.

This murder took place in CA.

All of those things listed have laws that address them in CA.

Also in CA inheritance of an AR15 that has certain cosmetic attributes is currently illegal.

And you are correct that there are laws against non-citizens possessing firearms as well as laws against drunk driving and murder.

There are also laws (in CA) that prevent local law enforcement from cooperating with immigration enforcement.

At least that part of the law was followed....
Posted By: Wheelhouse

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 06:03 PM

problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?
Posted By: Kento

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Do you think his resume is padded enough to get a job at one of Trump's golf courses?
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


The point is not that immigrants are evil. The point is that our system of immigration laws is designed to invite in immigrants who are not evil, then exclude evil assholes like this murderer. The current open border situation places us in the position of getting the dregs of other societies ......some of the dreggiest societies on the planet.

What could possibly go wrong?

Close the border until we are able to guard it effectively.
.
Posted By: WaialuaN8

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 09:30 PM

censored
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


The point is not that immigrants are evil. The point is that our system of immigration laws is designed to invite in immigrants who are not evil, then exclude evil assholes like this murderer. The current open border situation places us in the position of getting the dregs of other societies ......some of the dreggiest societies on the planet.

What could possibly go wrong?

Close the border until we are able to guard it effectively.
.


When you say "open border" what do you mean? Would a wall have kept this from happening? We like to discuss costs associated with risks - is this cop's life worth the $30 billion and 20 years it'll take to build the wall?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 10:30 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


Aw, someone is off his meds.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/30/18 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


And it costs around 30,000 lives per year poke
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


And it costs around 30,000 lives per year poke


AGAIN? We just had this argument. Your 30,000/year figure are sure to be "gun deaths" 60% of them are suicides, and of the remaining 40% a large portion are self defense shootings .....a reason for keeping the 2nd Amendment.

People have a God given right to defend themselves.
.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:54 AM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


And it costs around 30,000 lives per year poke


AGAIN? We just had this argument. Your 30,000/year figure are sure to be "gun deaths" 60% of them are suicides, and of the remaining 40% a large portion are self defense shootings .....a reason for keeping the 2nd Amendment.

People have a God given right to defend themselves.
.


Which god gave us that right?

But really - you're an adult and you still believe in God? Isn't that marginal?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 02:44 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 02:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


Kind of like asking:

1000 people killed in mass shootings in 2018. How many were killed by NRA members?
Every one
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: 1whoknows
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
144 cops killed in the line of duty in 2018. How many were killed by undocumented migrants?


Kind of like asking:

1000 people killed in mass shootings in 2018. How many were killed by NRA members?
Every one

Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 04:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?
Posted By: Wheelhouse

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 06:26 AM

heres the damn point. you come here legally and you are subjected to background checks and more importantly medical exams. the illegals are unchecked.

if youre here illegally - you get arrested and sent back. IS THAT A PROBLEM? WHY

Give me the g0d danganswer to this. make sense por favor. tell me why an illegal is not subject to medical and criminal checks but someone who is trying to come in legally is. lay it down for me ERBB libs.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


And it costs around 30,000 lives per year poke


AGAIN? We just had this argument. Your 30,000/year figure are sure to be "gun deaths" 60% of them are suicides, and of the remaining 40% a large portion are self defense shootings .....a reason for keeping the 2nd Amendment.

People have a God given right to defend themselves.
.


Statistics aside, do you truly believe that each year in this country more lives are saved with guns than lost with guns?
Posted By: squidley

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: frvcvs
Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


And it costs around 30,000 lives per year poke


AGAIN? We just had this argument. Your 30,000/year figure are sure to be "gun deaths" 60% of them are suicides, and of the remaining 40% a large portion are self defense shootings .....a reason for keeping the 2nd Amendment.

People have a God given right to defend themselves.
.


Statistics aside, do you truly believe that each year in this country more lives are saved with guns than lost with guns?


You're claiming that you want "statistics aside" while asking me which statistic is greater, gun murders or self defense gun deaths. How genuine,.....

I'm not the person who quoted a figure which includes self defense deaths to statistically argue against the right of self defense. You are. The burden of proof is on you.

If you could somehow retract your lie, and show that there are more gun murders and accidental gun deaths than self defense shooting deaths, would it mean that people don't have a right to defend themselves?
.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?

Iím flattered to see you begging for my opinion!
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?


Yes itís true.
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?

Iím flattered to see you begging for my opinion!


You didn't answer the question.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:45 PM

Oh my! What ever will you do?!
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 01:51 PM

Nothing.

Your lack of an answer is an answer.
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Cheaper lettuce. That is the answer. You pay less for stuff. Same with China. Cheaper stuff. Every American is to blame, you included.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
heres the damn point. you come here legally and you are subjected to background checks and more importantly medical exams. the illegals are unchecked.

if youre here illegally - you get arrested and sent back. IS THAT A PROBLEM? WHY

Give me the g0d danganswer to this. make sense por favor. tell me why an illegal is not subject to medical and criminal checks but someone who is trying to come in legally is. lay it down for me ERBB libs.


Good luck trying to get an answer on that. Thatís why those assholes are trying to divert this thread into a gun control debate. Itís a deflection tactic.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Nothing.

Your lack of an answer is an answer.


Rather than wait for my opinion on a law that doesn't exist, you should give it a look yourself.

You know my position on this stuff. It's not local cops' job to work on immigration enforcement. It's the Feds' job. So Trump should increase the ICE staff numbers and they can sit and watch every jail and prison inmate who comes and goes.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
problem is - he was arrested multiple times before and released. he should have been deported first time he was arrested. his employer should have been slapped for hiring him. local law enforcement should have turned him over to ICE but didnt. he killed a cop who is a legal immigrant, a guy who did it the right way.

why are we protecting the guy who chooses to do it the wrong way?


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?


Yes itís true.


No, it's not.

If there's a California law that prohibits local jurisdictions from communicating with ICE, please link to it.
Posted By: WaialuaN8

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Why didn't ICE deport him?


Beacuse local law enforcement was PROHIBITED by California law from alerting ICE of his presence....


Is this true?

If so, what do StuAzole and manfvckpig think about such prohibitions?


Yes itís true.


No, it's not.

If there's a California law that prohibits local jurisdictions from communicating with ICE, please link to it.


In CA itís SB 54. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB54
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:18 PM



Please point to the part which prohibits local agencies from talking to Feds.

Thank you.

PS - here's what that bill is, and isn't (spoiler alert - it's not a prohibition on cooperation between the state and feds):

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/04/californias-sanctuary-law-sb-54-heres-what-it-is-and-isnt/
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
heres the damn point. you come here legally and you are subjected to background checks and more importantly medical exams. the illegals are unchecked.

if youre here illegally - you get arrested and sent back. IS THAT A PROBLEM? WHY

Give me the g0d danganswer to this. make sense por favor. tell me why an illegal is not subject to medical and criminal checks but someone who is trying to come in legally is. lay it down for me ERBB libs.


It's not a problem. But talk it through.

Cop pulls over a Mexican dude for a broken tail light. Asks - hey, are you legal? Guy says yeah, but I forgot my ID.

What happens next?
Posted By: Phi1

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Surprised some of you are so outraged by this. Youíve already admitted the loss of life is a sacrifice youíre all willing to take for the 2A.


The 2nd Amendment saves hundreds of lives every year. More importantly, it saves the lives of innocent intended victims.
.
.


While I don't disagree with your theory, there's no way to prove how many lives guns saved unless you can see into alternate futures. socrazy

I think the spirit of the sanctuary city is to prevent local LEO from doing the Fed's job. It's an unfair burden on border towns. Also if cops round up people for illegal immigration, they'll be less likely to report more serious crimes (rape, armed robberies, assault). That said, if someone is caught comitting serious crimes and they qualify for deportation, go for it.

Thing is, criminals involved with gangs and running drugs likely have a better network of safe houses and hookups than the average migrant looking to send money back home. The majority that get rounded up probably aren't the "bad hombres".
Posted By: WaialuaN8

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Please point to the part which prohibits local agencies from talking to Feds.

Thank you.

PS - here's what that bill is, and isn't (spoiler alert - it's not a prohibition on cooperation between the state and feds):

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/04/californias-sanctuary-law-sb-54-heres-what-it-is-and-isnt/


Did you read it at all? From your link

Here are some other things that law enforcement in California canít do under the new law:

Ask someone about their immigration status or detain them solely because of their status.
Hold someone in jail past their release date at ICEís request.
Assist in arrests based on civil immigration warrants.
Provide release dates or other information about a detainee unless that information is available to the public or the individual has a criminal conviction for one of the excepted crimes or has a qualifying criminal charge and has had a probable cause finding as to that charge.
Provide office space for federal immigration authorities to use in local jail facilities.
Cooperate with ICE in cases where an individual has been arrested, detained, or convicted for an offense that is a misdemeanor but was a felony prior to the passage of Prop. 47, which reduced penalties for some crimes in California.
Posted By: Phi1

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Wheelhouse
heres the damn point. you come here legally and you are subjected to background checks and more importantly medical exams. the illegals are unchecked.

if youre here illegally - you get arrested and sent back. IS THAT A PROBLEM? WHY

Give me the g0d danganswer to this. make sense por favor. tell me why an illegal is not subject to medical and criminal checks but someone who is trying to come in legally is. lay it down for me ERBB libs.


It's not a problem. But talk it through.

Cop pulls over a Mexican dude for a broken tail light. Asks - hey, are you legal? Guy says yeah, but I forgot my ID.

What happens next?


He likes the part of the Constitution that protects against "illegal search and seizure" but wants it to include "searching and seizing illegals". shrug hat
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: WaialuaN8
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Please point to the part which prohibits local agencies from talking to Feds.

Thank you.

PS - here's what that bill is, and isn't (spoiler alert - it's not a prohibition on cooperation between the state and feds):

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/04/californias-sanctuary-law-sb-54-heres-what-it-is-and-isnt/


Did you read it at all? From your link

Here are some other things that law enforcement in California canít do under the new law:

Ask someone about their immigration status or detain them solely because of their status.
Hold someone in jail past their release date at ICEís request.
Assist in arrests based on civil immigration warrants.
Provide release dates or other information about a detainee unless that information is available to the public or the individual has a criminal conviction for one of the excepted crimes or has a qualifying criminal charge and has had a probable cause finding as to that charge.
Provide office space for federal immigration authorities to use in local jail facilities.
Cooperate with ICE in cases where an individual has been arrested, detained, or convicted for an offense that is a misdemeanor but was a felony prior to the passage of Prop. 47, which reduced penalties for some crimes in California.


Great, so we agree that it's not a full prohibition at all. In fact, the law allows the Feds to talk with the locals for pretty much any dangerous illegal alien, and that includes all gang members.

But let's discuss specifics. How did this law play a part in the cop's murder, as was stated earlier?

When were the prior arrests? Pre or post the enactment of this law?

Did ICE try to get in touch with the locals or no, either at his prior arrests or at some other point?

Did his crimes fall under any of the carve outs that would have allowed ICE to inquire?

Were his prior release dates public or no?

In other words, was it the sanctuary law you cite that kept ICE from learning of him or was it more just the result of local cops not being immigration officers?

___

But my bigger question still applies - why don't the Feds beef up their own enforcement troops rather than relying on local officers who are neither trained in immigration matters nor given the resources to enforce a strictly federal matter? They're no more equipped to manage immigration than they are to suss out whether or not you've properly paid your taxes.

Local jails can't house all the illegals who would be arrested if local cops took on that role. Local courts couldn't handle all the deportation hearings, local staffs couldn't manage the caseload that would follow the arrest of every illegal and local agencies wouldn't have the budget to play immigration enforcement. So why doesn't Trump do something here? Hire more ICE officers. Open more ICE offices in CA and Texas and across the country. It doesn't seem that difficult.
Posted By: WaialuaN8

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 09:41 PM

Or allow the local agencies to coordinate with DHS and ICE.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: WaialuaN8
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Please point to the part which prohibits local agencies from talking to Feds.

Thank you.

PS - here's what that bill is, and isn't (spoiler alert - it's not a prohibition on cooperation between the state and feds):

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/04/californias-sanctuary-law-sb-54-heres-what-it-is-and-isnt/


Did you read it at all? From your link

Here are some other things that law enforcement in California canít do under the new law:

Ask someone about their immigration status or detain them solely because of their status.
Hold someone in jail past their release date at ICEís request.
Assist in arrests based on civil immigration warrants.
Provide release dates or other information about a detainee unless that information is available to the public or the individual has a criminal conviction for one of the excepted crimes or has a qualifying criminal charge and has had a probable cause finding as to that charge.
Provide office space for federal immigration authorities to use in local jail facilities.
Cooperate with ICE in cases where an individual has been arrested, detained, or convicted for an offense that is a misdemeanor but was a felony prior to the passage of Prop. 47, which reduced penalties for some crimes in California.


Great, so we agree that it's not a full prohibition at all. In fact, the law allows the Feds to talk with the locals for pretty much any dangerous illegal alien, and that includes all gang members.

But let's discuss specifics. How did this law play a part in the cop's murder, as was stated earlier?

When were the prior arrests? Pre or post the enactment of this law?

Did ICE try to get in touch with the locals or no, either at his prior arrests or at some other point?

Did his crimes fall under any of the carve outs that would have allowed ICE to inquire?

Were his prior release dates public or no?

In other words, was it the sanctuary law you cite that kept ICE from learning of him or was it more just the result of local cops not being immigration officers?

___

But my bigger question still applies - why don't the Feds beef up their own enforcement troops rather than relying on local officers who are neither trained in immigration matters nor given the resources to enforce a strictly federal matter? They're no more equipped to manage immigration than they are to suss out whether or not you've properly paid your taxes.

Local jails can't house all the illegals who would be arrested if local cops took on that role. Local courts couldn't handle all the deportation hearings, local staffs couldn't manage the caseload that would follow the arrest of every illegal and local agencies wouldn't have the budget to play immigration enforcement. So why doesn't Trump do something here? Hire more ICE officers. Open more ICE offices in CA and Texas and across the country. It doesn't seem that difficult.



Youíre being willfully blind here.

Or you simply do not understand the full scope of just how insane californiaís sanctuary law really is.

I am very pro immigration. My son is an immigrant adopted from a foreign country and almost all of my friends are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. I think Trumpís immigration policies are terrible and his wall idea completely idiotic.

The other side of that coin is California. The sanctuary laws are that bad. It is absolutely a protection mechanism for illegal immigrants and specifically criminal illegal immigrants.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: WaialuaN8
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Please point to the part which prohibits local agencies from talking to Feds.

Thank you.

PS - here's what that bill is, and isn't (spoiler alert - it's not a prohibition on cooperation between the state and feds):

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/04/californias-sanctuary-law-sb-54-heres-what-it-is-and-isnt/


Did you read it at all? From your link

Here are some other things that law enforcement in California canít do under the new law:

Ask someone about their immigration status or detain them solely because of their status.
Hold someone in jail past their release date at ICEís request.
Assist in arrests based on civil immigration warrants.
Provide release dates or other information about a detainee unless that information is available to the public or the individual has a criminal conviction for one of the excepted crimes or has a qualifying criminal charge and has had a probable cause finding as to that charge.
Provide office space for federal immigration authorities to use in local jail facilities.
Cooperate with ICE in cases where an individual has been arrested, detained, or convicted for an offense that is a misdemeanor but was a felony prior to the passage of Prop. 47, which reduced penalties for some crimes in California.


Great, so we agree that it's not a full prohibition at all. In fact, the law allows the Feds to talk with the locals for pretty much any dangerous illegal alien, and that includes all gang members.

But let's discuss specifics. How did this law play a part in the cop's murder, as was stated earlier?

When were the prior arrests? Pre or post the enactment of this law?

Did ICE try to get in touch with the locals or no, either at his prior arrests or at some other point?

Did his crimes fall under any of the carve outs that would have allowed ICE to inquire?

Were his prior release dates public or no?

In other words, was it the sanctuary law you cite that kept ICE from learning of him or was it more just the result of local cops not being immigration officers?

___

But my bigger question still applies - why don't the Feds beef up their own enforcement troops rather than relying on local officers who are neither trained in immigration matters nor given the resources to enforce a strictly federal matter? They're no more equipped to manage immigration than they are to suss out whether or not you've properly paid your taxes.

Local jails can't house all the illegals who would be arrested if local cops took on that role. Local courts couldn't handle all the deportation hearings, local staffs couldn't manage the caseload that would follow the arrest of every illegal and local agencies wouldn't have the budget to play immigration enforcement. So why doesn't Trump do something here? Hire more ICE officers. Open more ICE offices in CA and Texas and across the country. It doesn't seem that difficult.



Youíre being willfully blind here.

Or you simply do not understand the full scope of just how insane californiaís sanctuary law really is.

I am very pro immigration. My son is an immigrant adopted from a foreign country and almost all of my friends are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. I think Trumpís immigration policies are terrible and his wall idea completely idiotic.

The other side of that coin is California. The sanctuary laws are that bad. It is absolutely a protection mechanism for illegal immigrants and specifically criminal illegal immigrants.


I'm really not.

You said this happened because California law prohibited locals from talking to ICE. Show me.

I'm not naive at all. Immigration is a federal issue. Feds run the border, and Feds run deportation. Local jurisdictions are not, in any way, set up to be immigration agents. It's not their job, and should not be their job.

Like the IRS and taxes, if you want immigration laws enforced, ICE needs to do it.

California's sanctuary laws had nothing to do with this murder.
Posted By: 1whoknows

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 12/31/18 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy


My son is an immigrant adopted from a foreign country and almost all of my friends are either immigrants or the children of immigrants.


Bubble
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 12:30 AM

Quote:
You said this happened because California law prohibited locals from talking to ICE. Show me.


Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 01:12 AM

Thatís super, but if you spend even a minute looking into it youíll find his claims are baseless. He doesnít bring any facts into his opinion and complains about the laws protecting illegal gang members even though the laws specifically call out gang members as people Local jurisdictions are supposed to cooperate with the feds on.

Iíll ask again- what specific sanctuary laws got in the way of ICE finding this guy before this? How long was he here illegally? Why didnít they deport him? You brought it up, so back it up.

PS - his last arrest was in 2014, 4 years before the law at issue was put on the books. So, what other policy kept ICE from discovering him for the past several years? There must be something, yes?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 02:05 AM

This new SB 54 law is making an already bad situation, much worse.

It basically handcuffs ICE when illegal alien criminals are taken custody in local police jails.

They can't and will not inform ICE of incarcerated illegal alien criminals, which they should have every right to do so, especially if dangerous or multi-felonious.

Police don't have to process these illegal alien criminals as immigrants, but they do process them as lawbreakers, and jail them as such. So, they should be able to at least notify ICE or other immigration enforcement that they have them. Simple ID checks should verify this. Everyone else has to show ID when arrested.

What's so hard and complicated about that?

Sounds like Stu is a criminal defense type and has no problem with police releasing illegal immigrant criminals due to a loop-hole in CA state laws.

If a legal citizen broke federal laws, and local police picked up and jailed them, do you think they DON'T contact the FBI or other federal enforcer to come and get them?

If illegal immigration is a federal agency issue, so are people breaking federal laws (bank robbery, etc;). They should get the same treatment, especially if multi-deported illegal criminal.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 02:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
This new SB 54 law is making an already bad situation, much worse.

It basically handcuffs ICE when illegals are taken custody in local police jails.

They can't and will not inform ICE of incarcerated illegal alien criminals, which they should have every right to do so, especially if dangerous or multi-felonious.

Police don't have to process these illegal alien criminals as immigrants, but they do process them as lawbreakers, and jail them as such. So, they should be able to at least notify ICE or other immigration enforcement that they have them. ID checks should verify this.

What's so hard and complicated about that?

Sounds like Stu is a criminal defense type and has no problem with police releasing illegal immigrant criminals due to a loop-hole in CA state laws.

If a legal citizen broke federal laws, and local police picked up and jailed them, do you think they DON'T contact the FBI or other federal enforcer to come and get them?

If illegal immigration is a federal agency issue, so are people breaking federal laws (bank robbery, etc;). They should get the same treatment, especially if multi-deported illegal criminal.


Start with the very basics- how do local authorities confirm whether or not a person they stop is a citizen? Do they ask everyone for proof of citizenship? Just brown people? If they think theyíre illegal but donít know how they got here (snuck in or iverststayed a visa), what do they do (recall the latter is just a civil infraction and not a crime)? Do they haul everyone without proof of citizenship into jail? How does this work?

Related, no, Iím fine with deportation but itís the fedsí job and they should do it. In fact, ICE has been upping deportations for years now - you may even have been the one to point that out previously. Imagine your outrage if OPD couldnít respond to violent crime calls because they were bust processing paperwork on non-violent illegal immigrants. Is that your preference?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 02:38 AM

You missed my point. I wasn't talking about simple pull-over type police stops. That's against most any laws to ask about immigration status.

I'm talking illegals already booked and in jail for crimes or in holding tanks for crimes.

These are the ones that should be handed over to ICE or immigration officials.

But they can't.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 02:50 AM

Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal? Will you have the local authorities investigate everyone they bring in? Will you require proof if legal residency and hold them without bail/possibility of release until they come up with it? Is that legal? What if ICE isnít able to get them for a while. Scrap the constitution and just hold them indefinitely anyway?

Btw, CA law specifically allows cooperation for more violent/serious criminals, including gang members. So what youíre suggesting is that police spend time on nonóviolent criminals and those in for misdemeanors. So Iíll ask again- is that where you want your officersí time going? Why not let ICe just hire more people to track who is coming and going from jail?
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 04:22 AM

What I see daily around here locally is the complete degeneration of what the USA is supposed to stand for.

Yes, we all are supposed to integrate and assimilate. (At least some of us). But we need to do so under the same set of standards and rules applicable to everybody.

What I see with the illegal side is there is absolutely no reason to do so. Whatever standards you bring with you from the places you came from, continue onwards. All you have here is a clean slate to move it forward.

It's like a society living inside a society.

Adding more illegals to the mix just makes this situation worse.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 05:34 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal? Will you have the local authorities investigate everyone they bring in? Will you require proof if legal residency and hold them without bail/possibility of release until they come up with it? Is that legal? What if ICE isnít able to get them for a while. Scrap the constitution and just hold them indefinitely anyway?

Btw, CA law specifically allows cooperation for more violent/serious criminals, including gang members. So what youíre suggesting is that police spend time on nonóviolent criminals and those in for misdemeanors. So Iíll ask again- is that where you want your officersí time going? Why not let ICe just hire more people to track who is coming and going from jail?


If they allowed at least ONE ICE agent to have a small office in each cities or even county jail houses? Or even a simple call in to them, each time a illegal immigrant criminal was brought in (no ID, no green card, no english, etc;)?

But they're not allowed to do so, even IF they had the manpower.

Local police are on the streets and deal with EVERYONE, citizen or not. If ICE DID get the manpower and were on site at every police station screening each arrival, people like you would be screaming "Gestapo police state!!" (like they did in Portland).

You and most libby-progs would be off the rails if Feds actually ENFORCED existing illegal immigration laws that have been in place for decades.
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 07:27 AM

fook it.

Throw the ropes open.

Let them all in.
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 07:29 AM

Some people need a wakeup call.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 12:05 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal?


They have this thing now called a Social Security Number. Ever heard of them? Do they have those in California? Most adults have theirs memorized and have to use it with pretty much everything government and medical related. Just a hunch but that might come into play here?

Something tells me that if someone crossed the border LEGALLY, they'd have some documentation to show for it?

If you crossed into Mexico and committed a crime what would you expect to happen? Might your citizenship come into play?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal? Will you have the local authorities investigate everyone they bring in? Will you require proof if legal residency and hold them without bail/possibility of release until they come up with it? Is that legal? What if ICE isnít able to get them for a while. Scrap the constitution and just hold them indefinitely anyway?

Btw, CA law specifically allows cooperation for more violent/serious criminals, including gang members. So what youíre suggesting is that police spend time on nonóviolent criminals and those in for misdemeanors. So Iíll ask again- is that where you want your officersí time going? Why not let ICe just hire more people to track who is coming and going from jail?


If they allowed at least ONE ICE agent to have a small office in each cities or even county jail houses? Or even a simple call in to them, each time a illegal immigrant criminal was brought in (no ID, no green card, no english, etc;)?

But they're not allowed to do so, even IF they had the manpower.

Local police are on the streets and deal with EVERYONE, citizen or not. If ICE DID get the manpower and were on site at every police station screening each arrival, people like you would be screaming "Gestapo police state!!" (like they did in Portland).

You and most libby-progs would be off the rails if Feds actually ENFORCED existing illegal immigration laws that have been in place for decades.


I'm 100% ok with the feds deporting anyone they find. That's ICE's job. They should do it. By the same token, Border Patrol should do a better job of not letting them in in the first place. You'd think they'd want to enforce federal law...

But I asked you a more basic question - how do you suggest the local authorities determine legality in the first place? Every "they should" you come up with seems to assume that local jurisdictions already know for certain who's legal and who isn't, but it's hardly that easy.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal?


They have this thing now called a Social Security Number. Ever heard of them? Do they have those in California? Most adults have theirs memorized and have to use it with pretty much everything government and medical related. Just a hunch but that might come into play here?

Something tells me that if someone crossed the border LEGALLY, they'd have some documentation to show for it?

If you crossed into Mexico and committed a crime what would you expect to happen? Might your citizenship come into play?


What part of the law currently allows police officers to demand your social security number? Do they have the right to ask anyone for this, or just brown people? If a cop on the street comes up to your kid today and demands his SS#, you'd be ok with that?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Leaverite
fook it.

Throw the ropes open.

Let them all in.




LOL. Because open borders and the WALL are the only two options.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 09:20 PM

It's funny that all the people harping about this have remained mum on the Trump using fake documents to keep illegals working at his properties thread.
Posted By: afoaf

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
It's funny that all the people harping about this have remained mum on the Trump using fake documents to keep illegals working at his properties thread.


with fake social security numbers and such.

I bet they were paying their payroll taxes, too, right, casa_mugrienta?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 10:58 PM

I wish I had someone extra contributing to my SS#. tomato

Although, I max out contributions most every year anyway.

So where does it go?

Someone needs to do a study on where fake ID payroll taxes end up going?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Same question- how do you know with any sort of legal authority who is legal? Will you have the local authorities investigate everyone they bring in? Will you require proof if legal residency and hold them without bail/possibility of release until they come up with it? Is that legal? What if ICE isnít able to get them for a while. Scrap the constitution and just hold them indefinitely anyway?

Btw, CA law specifically allows cooperation for more violent/serious criminals, including gang members. So what youíre suggesting is that police spend time on nonóviolent criminals and those in for misdemeanors. So Iíll ask again- is that where you want your officersí time going? Why not let ICe just hire more people to track who is coming and going from jail?


If they allowed at least ONE ICE agent to have a small office in each cities or even county jail houses? Or even a simple call in to them, each time a illegal immigrant criminal was brought in (no ID, no green card, no english, etc;)?

But they're not allowed to do so, even IF they had the manpower.

Local police are on the streets and deal with EVERYONE, citizen or not. If ICE DID get the manpower and were on site at every police station screening each arrival, people like you would be screaming "Gestapo police state!!" (like they did in Portland).

You and most libby-progs would be off the rails if Feds actually ENFORCED existing illegal immigration laws that have been in place for decades.


I'm 100% ok with the feds deporting anyone they find. That's ICE's job. They should do it. By the same token, Border Patrol should do a better job of not letting them in in the first place. You'd think they'd want to enforce federal law...

But I asked you a more basic question - how do you suggest the local authorities determine legality in the first place? Every "they should" you come up with seems to assume that local jurisdictions already know for certain who's legal and who isn't, but it's hardly that easy.



Being allowed to inquire about the citizenship of those in their custody would be a good start, but in CA local law enforcement is prohibited from even asking.

Are you really not understanding whatís going on here?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/01/19 11:27 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
It's funny that all the people harping about this have remained mum on the Trump using fake documents to keep illegals working at his properties thread.


with fake social security numbers and such.

I bet they were paying their payroll taxes, too, right, casa_mugrienta?


Trump did that himself?

Wow heís really bad.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 12:09 AM

I am saying yes, letís allow that. How does it work? What proof works and who can they ask? What if the cop isnít sure? What are the steps here?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
It's funny that all the people harping about this have remained mum on the Trump using fake documents to keep illegals working at his properties thread.


with fake social security numbers and such.

I bet they were paying their payroll taxes, too, right, casa_mugrienta?


Trump did that himself?

Wow heís really bad.


So we need to hold business responsible for hiring illegals but not the people who run the business? Seems like a solid immigration policy.

And yes, I wouldnít be surprised to see that Trump himself knew of and approved this practice.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 01:56 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
I am saying yes, letís allow that. How does it work? What proof works and who can they ask? What if the cop isnít sure? What are the steps here?


E-verify built into new ID cards should have that info, IMO.

If they don't have the latest ID cards by 2020, and other indications that are suspect of citizenship, or at least visas, then they should be able to identify it pretty quickly without a lot of interrogation.

With tech we have today, a database should be able to identify pretty quickly for most all. Yes, it's kinda 1984ish, but if we want verification of legality in the USA, something like this will be needed.

But some will say there's people that don't have or need ID cards, like voter registration. That's going to have to go by the wayside if we want to verify legality of immigrants. shrug
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
I am saying yes, letís allow that. How does it work? What proof works and who can they ask? What if the cop isnít sure? What are the steps here?


E-verify built into new ID cards should have that info, IMO.

If they don't have the latest ID cards by 2020, and other indications that are suspect of citizenship, or at least visas, then they should be able to identify it pretty quickly without a lot of interrogation.

With tech we have today, a database should be able to identify pretty quickly for most all. Yes, it's kinda 1984ish, but if we want verification of legality in the USA, something like this will be needed.

But some will say there's people that don't have or need ID cards, like voter registration. That's going to have to go by the wayside if we want to verify legality of immigrants. shrug


OK, now we're talking.

So E-Verify, which is an employment tool, correct? What about people who don't work? Minors? Students? People who work under the table? They won't have an e-verified ID - so what happens when cops come across those people? Remember, they could be illegal, or they could have a visa or they could be citizens - what do you do with them?

But what you're suggesting sounds sorta like a mandatory national ID. That we all must carry at all times? Who runs that program? Who manages the databases and what info goes in there? Do all federal and state governments get access to that database? Is it all coordinated?

Remember just a few weeks ago there was a thread debating the merits of CA's new 2-tier drivers license? One that works as a simple driver's license and one that lets you fly etc. because it's backed up by a passport or some other form of verified ID? Remember how most of us said "no way I'm getting that more intrusive one - I don't want the government knowing all about me?

But all that aside, the discussion is on California's evil sanctuary laws. You want cops to be able to report illegals to ICE, and I asked how that would currently work. You gave me a "what I'd like to see one day...". What about today? How would it work today? How do local cops confirm legal status of a person they come across today?
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 09:40 PM

I can't even buy a $20 fresh water fishing license without providing my SSN. How hard is this?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/02/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
I can't even buy a $20 fresh water fishing license without providing my SSN. How hard is this?


By law, there are very few groups that can actually demand your SSN. Local police aren't included in that list.

Is the libertarian GromsDad suggesting we give more power over our personal information to local authorities?

What if a local cop stops your son on the street because he's skateboarding and demands his SSN?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 12:46 AM

Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 12:49 AM

What is the right choice?

Would you guys not admit that politics is driving policy?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 12:20 PM

No photo description available.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 01:21 PM

Quote:
They won't have an e-verified ID - so what happens when cops come across those people? Remember, they could be illegal, or they could have a visa or they could be citizens - what do you do with them?


Is there some sort of mental block with you on this?

If someone doesnít have any ID and citizenship canít be verified the cops should call ICE.

But they CANíT DO THAT because California law prohibits it. The FIRST thing that needs to be done is change california law.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.


My son got a state ID when he was 12 so he can use his credit card (we send him to the grocery store sometimes).

Itís not a driver license. Itís a state ID, just like a driver license except fo the driver part.

And if someone in custody doesnít have verifiable citizenship status then the police should call ICE.

But in CA calling ICE is prohibited.

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

Let me say that again...

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

And the state AG ďwill prosecuteĒ me if I do that.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 01:41 PM

That's fooked up.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.


My son got a state ID when he was 12 so he can use his credit card (we send him to the grocery store sometimes).

Itís not a driver license. Itís a state ID, just like a driver license except fo the driver part.

And if someone in custody doesnít have verifiable citizenship status then the police should call ICE.

But in CA calling ICE is prohibited.

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

Let me say that again...

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

And the state AG ďwill prosecuteĒ me if I do that.

It was my understanding that the whole issue with ICE and employers was it required a warrant; that ICE could not have access to personal information of ANY employee without one.
Posted By: mundus

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 02:57 PM

Conservatives used to be against all this police state stuff, I guess the hate overwhelmed their principles as usual.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.


My son got a state ID when he was 12 so he can use his credit card (we send him to the grocery store sometimes).

Itís not a driver license. Itís a state ID, just like a driver license except fo the driver part.

And if someone in custody doesnít have verifiable citizenship status then the police should call ICE.

But in CA calling ICE is prohibited.

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

Let me say that again...

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

And the state AG ďwill prosecuteĒ me if I do that.

It was my understanding that the whole issue with ICE and employers was it required a warrant; that ICE could not have access to personal information of ANY employee without one.


Yes but if I call ICE and suggest that they get a warrant I will be prosecuted.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 03:30 PM

Are you sure about that? When that was the hot topic it was in regards to employers who tipped off and gave access to files without warrants. Any sources you have?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 03:58 PM

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB450
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 04:14 PM

This is early on in the bill and exactly what I am stating. This, and most of the bill, protect legal citizens and prohibits gestapo style searches.

Quote:
the bill would prohibit an employer or other person acting on the employerís behalf from providing voluntary consent to an immigration enforcement agent to enter nonpublic areas of a place of labor unless the agent provides a judicial warrant,
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.


My son got a state ID when he was 12 so he can use his credit card (we send him to the grocery store sometimes).

Itís not a driver license. Itís a state ID, just like a driver license except fo the driver part.

And if someone in custody doesnít have verifiable citizenship status then the police should call ICE.

But in CA calling ICE is prohibited.

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

Let me say that again...

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

And the state AG ďwill prosecuteĒ me if I do that.


The employer thing is a different issue. Weíre addressing how cops would hold people for citizenship matters.

My kids donít have an ID that declares citizenship other than a passport. They donít know where we keep the passports. Today, what ID is there that all legal residents would have that would suffice here?

But letís go with it. A person is picked up for lifting a 6-pack of Budweiser. As it turns out, he wasnít the guy who stole the beer so thy start to let him go. In the process though, a cop asks if heís legal. He says yes. Cop demands proof. Guy says he doesnít have it on him. Does that trigger a call to ICE? Do they hold him indefinitely? Is he charged with a crime? Bail or no?

Walk me through it.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
This is early on in the bill and exactly what I am stating. This, and most of the bill, protect legal citizens and prohibits gestapo style searches.

Quote:
the bill would prohibit an employer or other person acting on the employerís behalf from providing voluntary consent to an immigration enforcement agent to enter nonpublic areas of a place of labor unless the agent provides a judicial warrant,


Warrants are super important until itís not an issue Iím worried about and then theyíre not!
Posted By: afoaf

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 05:15 PM



goasts
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Wouldn't bother me one bit if my drivers license (new or old) ID'd me as a legal citizen, or not.


Great but thatís still hypothetical. It also leaves out people who donít drive.

But back to today. Explain to me how it should all work today, starting with my prior questions regarding how local jurisdictions begin to establish legality in the first place.


My son got a state ID when he was 12 so he can use his credit card (we send him to the grocery store sometimes).

Itís not a driver license. Itís a state ID, just like a driver license except fo the driver part.

And if someone in custody doesnít have verifiable citizenship status then the police should call ICE.

But in CA calling ICE is prohibited.

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

Let me say that again...

Itís also illegal for me, as an employer, to tip off ICE if I suspect one of my employees to be an illegal alien.

And the state AG ďwill prosecuteĒ me if I do that.


The employer thing is a different issue. Weíre addressing how cops would hold people for citizenship matters.

My kids donít have an ID that declares citizenship other than a passport. They donít know where we keep the passports. Today, what ID is there that all legal residents would have that would suffice here?

But letís go with it. A person is picked up for lifting a 6-pack of Budweiser. As it turns out, he wasnít the guy who stole the beer so thy start to let him go. In the process though, a cop asks if heís legal. He says yes. Cop demands proof. Guy says he doesnít have it on him. Does that trigger a call to ICE? Do they hold him indefinitely? Is he charged with a crime? Bail or no?

Walk me through it.


The cops let him go then he robs your house.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 05:47 PM

The guy who hadnít done anything wrong waits until he tricks the local cops to rob me? Got it.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/03/19 10:39 PM

Just for fun, here's how difficult it is for locals to cooperate with ICE from a legal perspective even when they want to:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ice-expands-c...-090057267.html
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 04:04 AM

Saw this story in todays SD Union Tribune.

OK, what's wrong with this illegal immigrant or "refugee" kids attempt to claim "asylum" after hopping the fence?

I've bolded some hints......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Migrant describes capture by Border Patrol during tear gas deployment

By Wendy Fry The San Diego Union-Tribune (TNS) Jan 3, 2019 Updated 12 hrs ago

SAN DIEGO ó When Juan Carlos Caballero Jones of Honduras heard the first tear gas cannister fired off into the darkness in the early hours of the new year, he decided the cover of chaos was the perfect opportunity for him to take his shot.

ďWe all just want to advance our families,Ē he said later, shivering and clutching his stomach as he reflected on his failed attempt to enter the United States. ďThatís what we all want to do. Thatís what the whole world wants

U.S. Customs and Border Protection authorities said they fired tear gas and pepper spray into Mexico on Tuesday to stop about 150 migrants who tried to breach a border fence near Las Playas in Tijuana.

CBP said some of the migrants began to throw rocks at the agents from the Mexican side while others tried to cross the concertina wire, an additional security measure added when thousands of Central American migrants arrived in Tijuana in November with the goal of entering the United States.

A Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman said the crowd was ďa violent mob of migrantsĒ who attempted ďto enter the United States illegally by attacking our agents with projectiles.Ē

Caballero was among those who went through three layers of razor wire.

ďI looked for some high ground and covered my face, and then I gave it a shot,Ē he said. ďI dropped down on the other side and landed on the ground and just crouched there

Although Caballero thought he had made it onto U.S. soil undetected, he said he stayed quiet in the brush for awhile, waiting for agents.

ďI thought maybe I was free,Ē he said.

Tensions amid the migrant group who rushed the border have been growing in recent weeks from inside El Barretal shelter, as federal volunteers talk of tapering off services in coming weeks.

Some migrants said theyíre growing frustrated with being blocked from setting foot on U.S. soil, so they can assert their legal right to trigger an asylum claim. Others said theyíre confused about what theyíre supposed to do.

There isnít a physical line for those waiting to present themselves to U.S. immigration authorities through Tijuana. Thereís a notebook managed by asylum seekers themselves that has traditionally helped keep order, but lately that process has been overwhelmed by the number of people waiting in Tijuana.

When the Central American migrants have approached ports of entry, if Mexican authorities allow them to get that far, they are often told they are either ďat the wrong portĒ or that the port is ďat capacity,Ē unless they are accompanied by lawyers or lawmakers drawing attention to their plight.

Under U.S. law, people approaching ports of entry have a right to ask for asylum, but border agents can tell them they have to wait. Lately, that wait has stretched from weeks into months.

Tijuana has become the waiting room for the United States and a flash point in the immigration debate that has shut down the U.S. federal government, as President Donald Trump seeks funding for a border wall.

Those that approached the border early Tuesday said they did so with the intention of peacefully asking for asylum once on U.S. soil.

But, according to Caballero, some wanted to try to make it onto the other side by avoiding detection altogether.

Caballero estimated he was in the United States for 40 minutes before he was spotted, initially by Border Patrol agents on the ground, and then by a helicopter overhead.

ďI crossed over some brush. Then, I saw a guy on a quad and I saw that he saw me. I didnít move. It turns out maybe he didnít see me, so I went a little bit more,Ē he said.

Caballero said he stayed still for another five minutes and then he crossed over another section.

The disappointment in his voice was still fresh a day later when he recalled discovering that section just dropped off to another area also guarded by Border Patrol.

ďI realized I had a little more to go to get free,Ē he said.

He said in that moment he was spotted by an overhead helicopter.

ďI guess they have some kind of sensor that detects your body heat,Ē he said. ďI could tell the helicopter had honed in on me and turned the lights on me.Ē

Caballero said his whole body started to shake, and agents came to apprehend him.

ďThey started cussing at me in English, ĎFóing Honduran, F ó -ing bull***, Go back to Honduras,Ē he said. ďAnd then I put my hands in the air and I asked for asylum.Ē

Caballero said the agents started telling him to go back across to Mexico the same way he came.

ďThey wanted me to go back through the wire. They picked up my backpack and threw it to the other side,Ē he said.

Caballero said he argued with the agents for about 20 minutes.

Under U.S. law, once someone crosses into U.S. territory from Mexico, they have a right to ask for asylum. The U.S. government doesnít have to grant asylum, but border agents at the line canít force foreign nationals to return back across the U.S.-Mexico border into Mexico, either, without some processing of their asylum claim, according to civil rights attorney Eugene Iredale.

ďWe went back and forth because I wasnít going to go back through the same area because I could get hurt,Ē Caballero said. ďThey just said ĎGet out, get out, get out.íĒ

Caballero said they eventually walked him back to the Mexican side.

A Department of Homeland Security official did not respond to questions about Caballeroís story, but a previously released statement said the agents acted with complete professionalism.

ďThe agents involved should be applauded for handling the situation with no reported injuries to the attackers,Ē said DHS spokeswoman Katie Waldman.

Caballero said he doesnít see the night as a complete failure.

ďI made it,Ē he said. ďThey made me come back but Ö I had passed all the obstacles. All the people will tell you. My legs are hurt. Iím not going to lie.Ē

And he said wasnít discouraged from giving it another shot.

ďWith 10 more opportunities, Iíd give it 10 more tries.Ē

[img]https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tena...x=791&y=262[/img]

>> migrant-describes-capture-by-border-patrol-during-tear-gas-deployment <<
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 04:35 AM

ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 05:04 AM

Nothing to do with Sanctuary laws or the questions I asked.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 06:01 AM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.


It was a gotcha for the kid trying to shout "asylum" after evading multiple attempts to claim it once he hopped the fence. Only when he got caught did he decide to scream the magic word.

This is a mindset of more than a few of the "refugees" and supposed "asylum seekers". It's the new golden ticket without having to immigrate legally. That needs to change.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 06:11 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Nothing to do with Sanctuary laws or the questions I asked.


Most all adults and most teens have some form of ID and speak some English. If you don't have either, that's one strike. If you show a foreign country ID, you need to show a USA visa or Green Card at least. If those aren't shown, strike 2. If you committed some kind of crime for these actions to be taken, strike 3, call to INS and they handle the rest.

Too simple? Or too harsh?
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.


It was a gotcha for the kid trying to shout "asylum" after evading multiple attempts to claim it once he hopped the fence. Only when he got caught did he decide to scream the magic word.

This is a mindset of more than a few of the "refugees" and supposed "asylum seekers". It's the new golden ticket without having to immigrate legally. That needs to change.

Who would he try to claim asylum to before the agents got him? The bushes?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Nothing to do with Sanctuary laws or the questions I asked.


Most all adults and most teens have some form of ID and speak some English. If you don't have either, that's one strike. If you show a foreign country ID, you need to show a USA visa or Green Card at least. If those aren't shown, strike 2. If you committed some kind of crime for these actions to be taken, strike 3, call to INS and they handle the rest.

Too simple? Or too harsh?


Thatís generalities. I asked specific questions about how local authorities deal with the legality of all this and posted a link showing how difficult it is for local authorities to do what you want them to even when they want to.

Please addres.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.


It was a gotcha for the kid trying to shout "asylum" after evading multiple attempts to claim it once he hopped the fence. Only when he got caught did he decide to scream the magic word.

This is a mindset of more than a few of the "refugees" and supposed "asylum seekers". It's the new golden ticket without having to immigrate legally. That needs to change.

Who would he try to claim asylum to before the agents got him? The bushes?


Itís actually called defensive asylum. Surfdog is outraged by something thatís not new. If anything, DHS agents were breaking the law by trying to force them back through the fence once they claimed asylum.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

Also, remember when his only concern was for the poor migrants who were being used by liberal open-borders advocates backed by Siriís? Yeah, that was funny.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.


It was a gotcha for the kid trying to shout "asylum" after evading multiple attempts to claim it once he hopped the fence. Only when he got caught did he decide to scream the magic word.

This is a mindset of more than a few of the "refugees" and supposed "asylum seekers". It's the new golden ticket without having to immigrate legally. That needs to change.

Who would he try to claim asylum to before the agents got him? The bushes?


There were BP agents driving all around him in ATV's just after he hit the ground over the fence.

Why didn't he just walk proudly towards one of them, hands up and turn himself in right away? He was hiding in the bushes for at least 40 minutes and sneaking further into the USA, thinking he had a chance to get past all the roving agents, until a helicopter spotted him with infrared, most likely.

He could've turned himself over to BP within the first 5 minutes of hitting the ground, but didn't.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
ďSurfdog and the gotcha that wasnít really thereĒ is the name of my new childrenís book.


It was a gotcha for the kid trying to shout "asylum" after evading multiple attempts to claim it once he hopped the fence. Only when he got caught did he decide to scream the magic word.

This is a mindset of more than a few of the "refugees" and supposed "asylum seekers". It's the new golden ticket without having to immigrate legally. That needs to change.

Who would he try to claim asylum to before the agents got him? The bushes?


Itís actually called defensive asylum. Surfdog is outraged by something thatís not new. If anything, DHS agents were breaking the law by trying to force them back through the fence once they claimed asylum.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

Also, remember when his only concern was for the poor migrants who were being used by liberal open-borders advocates backed by Siriís? Yeah, that was funny.


PSF propagandized 1000's of Central Americans into thinking getting asylum was a slam dunk if you just showed up, especially with a kid or as a "family". Never mind that a vast majority were single males. When reality hit them smack in the face on arrival in TJ, strategies changed, and PSF was no where to be found. They were and still are pawns of open borders activists.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 07:28 PM

I admire your ability to ignore all the stuff youíre wrong on while still keeping up with feels.

Yet here I sit still waiting for you to answer even the most basic questions about how local authorities might legally become immigration enforcers, even when jurisdictions that really want to help hasnít been able to figure it out.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
I admire your ability to ignore all the stuff youíre wrong on while still keeping up with feels.

Yet here I sit still waiting for you to answer even the most basic questions about how local authorities might legally become immigration enforcers, even when jurisdictions that really want to help hasnít been able to figure it out.



And yet we keep telling you CA laws prevent them from doing so (except in the most violent cases). Round and round we go.

They don't need to "enforce" immigration laws, just a simple notification to INS of potential illegality. But that's strictly prohibited and strongly discouraged.

Non sanctuary states don't seem to have this problem for some reason. shrug
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 07:41 PM

Dude - Iíve asked you to tell me how it would work. I know what the law is. You want to blame the current laws for the copís death. You seem to think thereís some easy way for local jurisdictions to cooperate with ice on the ground. I want to hear your genius solution.

In case this isnít clear still, go RE-read this thread.

And yes, non-sanctuary states have these problems. And even states that want to help ICE havenít been able to do it well, as evidenced by the agencies that have dropped out of the ICE program I posed a link to. So maybe you can solve all of the legal/financial matters that come along when local authorities try to do a federal agencyís job?
Posted By: afoaf

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 08:11 PM

Posted By: manbearpig

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/04/19 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
I admire your ability to ignore all the stuff youíre wrong on while still keeping up with feels.

Yet here I sit still waiting for you to answer even the most basic questions about how local authorities might legally become immigration enforcers, even when jurisdictions that really want to help hasnít been able to figure it out.


It takes quite a bit of diligence to accomplish this.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 06:10 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Dude - Iíve asked you to tell me how it would work. I know what the law is. You want to blame the current laws for the copís death. You seem to think thereís some easy way for local jurisdictions to cooperate with ice on the ground. I want to hear your genius solution.

In case this isnít clear still, go RE-read this thread.

And yes, non-sanctuary states have these problems. And even states that want to help ICE havenít been able to do it well, as evidenced by the agencies that have dropped out of the ICE program I posed a link to. So maybe you can solve all of the legal/financial matters that come along when local authorities try to do a federal agencyís job?


Then why even bother passing Sanctuary laws then? What GOOD are they accomplishing?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 04:32 PM

So there it is - feelz gets asked for even a tiny bit of analysis and canít do it.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
So there it is - feelz gets asked for even a tiny bit of analysis and canít do it.


Because THIS is what it would be compared to if ICE, CBP and other immigration services hung out at police stations and businesses known for illegal immigrant hiring and did their motherfucking jobs.



And you would be the first foaming at the mouth critic of that action.

Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 04:48 PM

Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course theyíll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course theyíll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Posted By: mundus

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually that&#146;s what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course they&#146;ll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Aren't you comfortably retired? Why waste your time and energy wetting the bed with this stuff?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Dude - Iíve asked you to tell me how it would work. I know what the law is. You want to blame the current laws for the copís death. You seem to think thereís some easy way for local jurisdictions to cooperate with ice on the ground. I want to hear your genius solution.

In case this isnít clear still, go RE-read this thread.

And yes, non-sanctuary states have these problems. And even states that want to help ICE havenít been able to do it well, as evidenced by the agencies that have dropped out of the ICE program I posed a link to. So maybe you can solve all of the legal/financial matters that come along when local authorities try to do a federal agencyís job?


Cops arrest guy, he has no ID, speaks with thick French accent.

Call ICE.

Thatís how it works.

In California the cops would be breaking the law in that scenario.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually that&#146;s what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course they&#146;ll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Aren't you comfortably retired? Why waste your time and energy wetting the bed with this stuff?


No, still a few more years from retiring. In fact I just officially became a full time business. My boss is retiring, and I'm taking over a large portion of it as a new entity. So, now I pay even more taxes and such, but hopefully also make a bit more when it all washes out.

Giving illegal immigrants criminals more rights than legal citizens is a travesty to our justice system, and that's what's fucked up.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually that&#146;s what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course they&#146;ll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.
Aren't you comfortably retired? Why waste your time and energy wetting the bed with this stuff?


No, still a few more years from retiring. In fact I just officially became a full time business. My boss is retiring, and I'm taking over a large portion of it as a new entity. So, now I pay even more taxes and such, but hopefully also make a bit more when it all washes out.

Giving illegal immigrants criminals more rights than legal citizens is a travesty to our justice system, and that's what's fucked up.


So weíve quit trying to discuss the basics of how cooperation would legally and fiscally work. Why donít you tell us instead how illegal immigrant criminals have more rights than the rest of us? Be specific.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 08:41 PM

How long do they hold him? Where? Bail? Can they do this only to people with accents? Who pays for the detention? What if heís a citizen at the end of the day? Who pays for the civil rights lawsuit?

I posted about all the troubles that came along with ICEís cooperation policy. Why do you think those same issues wonít present in CA?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions. Of course theyíll still need a warrant to search but we fans of the constitution like that, yes?


Local jurisdictions don't and can't enforce immigration laws. But a simple notification when a criminal illegal is suspected, is all that needs to be done. Call in ICE, BCP or INS, and let them sort it out.

But NO, that's now not possible in sanctuary cities and states. It's too judgemental on the criminal illegal to suspect he is one.


You keep skipping even the most basic issues - how do they know who is illegal? Iíve twice posted about the many issues that come with cooperation with ice under its current program, using real life examples. From high costs to civil rights lawsuits to reduced trust and cooperation from citizens, why are you so steadfast that locals do ices job for them? When Oceanside has to pay out a $50m civil rights claim, are you going to jump in to help?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thatís patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thatís patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?


What part is patently false?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:03 PM

OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Actually thatís what ICE should be doing. That requires no help from local jurisdictions.


Why was there a need for Sanctuary laws in cities and states to begin with?

I remember the days of immigration raids on businesses. I worked in one where it happened at least once or twice a year. There was no advance warning. Now that's illegal to do.


Thatís patently false. Get a warrant, raid the place. Why do you hate the 4th Amendment?


What part is patently false?


Raids not illegal. Get a warrant and raid away. I donít expect the raids Surfdog dreams back on were warrantless either.
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:13 PM

I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnít call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.


When was the last time you heard about local cops busting a tax cheat for the IRS? Would you be ok with Oceanside PD holding you while they waited for IRS input because you couldnít prove you filed you taxes last year? Tax fraud is actually a much more serious crime than being an illegal, which at worst is a misdemeanor.

Sanctuary laws just make it clear that immigration is a federal matter. Itís not hard. Hire more ICE agents and let them go ham.

And this entire discussion avoids the simple fact that CA law does in fact allow cooperation for anyone whoís accused of a more serious crime or thought to be a gang member. So are you really that spun over local cops not being able to detain and report non-violent individuals?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:15 PM

Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnít be a problem, should it?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnít be a problem, should it?


I asked you one question, your response to my one question is three questions.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Why would they call? And did you ask?

Regardless, raids are still 100% legal with a warrant- that shouldnít be a problem, should it?


I asked you one question, your response to my one question is three questions.


I have never worked in a kitchen, hence I have never seen an ice raid without a warrant. For future reference, I also have never been shot, shot heroin, been a porn star, vaped, been a minority, been killed by a Muslim terrorist or been priced out of a housing market by Chinese nationals.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 10:36 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnít call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnít call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?


Yes. Yes.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/05/19 11:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnít call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?


Yes. Yes.


Weíre better for some people being in Mexico anyway...

Why did you hire them in the first place?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/06/19 12:11 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
I had the kitchen help rounded up in three different restaurants in San Clemente and was never shown a warrant. The migra didnít call in advance. Tell us about your relevant personal experience.


Btw, prior to the new laws the employer could either consent to a search request or demand a warrant. Now there is no consent option.

Knowing this, do you feel good that you let 3 different staffs get rounded up by not requesting a warrant? Is CA safer for it?


Yes. Yes.


Weíre better for some people being in Mexico anyway...

Why did you hire them in the first place?


Who said I hired them?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/06/19 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.


If a legal citizen breaks a federal law that citizen is handed to the feds? Ok, letís go with that... cops arest a guy for bank robbery. If heís a citizen he is handed to the FBI. Are you suggesting that if an illegal alien is caught robbing a bank he is set free?

What youíre doing here is comparing two different issues and pretending theyíre the same.

With regard to alerting ICE to possible illegals, the law applies to everyone, not just non-citizens. So where is the difference in treatment? Same goes for bank robbery- illegals get the same treatment as citizens.

See how that works?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 12:27 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, there's technicalities for police to do ANYTHING to help the Feds when it comes to immigration, if you want to get all criminal defense lawyery about it (made even more difficult with sanctuary laws). I'll admit part of your argument.

Doesn't seem to matter if a LEGAL citizen breaks a federal law, police hand them over no problem all the time. Illegal immigration is a federal law, why the prejudice against it, specifically? I guess I could demand the same rights if I broke a federal law then, if in local police custody, right?

If it doesn't seem to matter in states without Sanctuary laws, why do some cities and blue states feel the need to have them, if it doesn't really make any difference, legally?

They are basically shutting out or at least handcuffing a federal jurisdiction, using states rights as an argument for it.


If a legal citizen breaks a federal law that citizen is handed to the feds? Ok, letís go with that... cops arest a guy for bank robbery. If heís a citizen he is handed to the FBI. Are you suggesting that if an illegal alien is caught robbing a bank he is set free?

What youíre doing here is comparing two different issues and pretending theyíre the same.

With regard to alerting ICE to possible illegals, the law applies to everyone, not just non-citizens. So where is the difference in treatment? Same goes for bank robbery- illegals get the same treatment as citizens.

See how that works?


ID cards mean something in the USA. Don't jump the border fence without it.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 12:44 AM

Lol. So much for your ďthey get extra legal protection ď stuff. Youíre a wiz at making argument you canít back up. Feelz!
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 12:59 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Lol. So much for your ďthey get extra legal protection ď stuff. Youíre a wiz at making argument you canít back up. Feelz!


If they're protected by "special" laws that hinder local jurisdictions from notifying the feds about suspect illegal immigrants, that's "extra" legal protection, no matter HOW you want to spin it. That's only a small part of what Sanctuary laws do.

It may not be much to you, but it's enough to allow some illegal immigrant criminals to go free in some cases. If the local police can't even TRY to determine if they have illegality in the USA or other fed crimes, it could be considered negligence to some, but not to criminal defense types.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 03:01 AM

No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 03:22 AM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.


You have heard of this case, right?

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muehler_v._Mena

California (and cities) Sanctuary laws prevent this from even happening.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 05:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.


You have heard of this case, right?

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muehler_v._Mena

California (and cities) Sanctuary laws prevent this from even happening.


The case involved a wanted gang member. CA sanctuary laws specifically carve out gang members and allow local cooperation with ICE. And they had a warrant.

You literally have no clue about this stuff.

BTW, did you read the portion of that case where they acknowledged Mena was, in fact, a legal resident? So for all your crying, you just gave me a case that didn't even involve an illegal alien. Lulz.

__

But letís try again. Questions about status are just the start. I asked you several times what comes next. So tell me, what comes next, but not when the person is a wanted gang member - because CA laws allow cooperation there already - but an elderly woman who allegedly stole a can of soup from the store?

Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.


You have heard of this case, right?

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muehler_v._Mena

California (and cities) Sanctuary laws prevent this from even happening.


The case involved a wanted gang member. CA sanctuary laws specifically carve out gang members and allow local cooperation with ICE. And they had a warrant.

You literally have no clue about this stuff.

BTW, did you read the portion of that case where they acknowledged Mena was, in fact, a legal resident? So for all your crying, you just gave me a case that didn't even involve an illegal alien. Lulz.

__

But letís try again. Questions about status are just the start. I asked you several times what comes next. So tell me, what comes next, but not when the person is a wanted gang member - because CA laws allow cooperation there already - but an elderly woman who allegedly stole a can of soup from the store?



Once again, ID.

If it's legit, even a expired green card, no problems. Without it, then a notification goes out, if there's indications of non-legal status, that's all it takes (no valid ID, no english). Local police just hold them until INS arrives. INS will sort it out.

Sanctuary laws prevent this.

Everyone of age has some kind of ID on them, even if it's another countries.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.


You have heard of this case, right?

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muehler_v._Mena

California (and cities) Sanctuary laws prevent this from even happening.


The case involved a wanted gang member. CA sanctuary laws specifically carve out gang members and allow local cooperation with ICE. And they had a warrant.

You literally have no clue about this stuff.

BTW, did you read the portion of that case where they acknowledged Mena was, in fact, a legal resident? So for all your crying, you just gave me a case that didn't even involve an illegal alien. Lulz.

__

But letís try again. Questions about status are just the start. I asked you several times what comes next. So tell me, what comes next, but not when the person is a wanted gang member - because CA laws allow cooperation there already - but an elderly woman who allegedly stole a can of soup from the store?



Once again, ID.

If it's legit, even a expired green card, no problems. Without it, then a notification goes out, if there's indications of non-legal status, that's all it takes (no valid ID, no english). Local police just hold them until INS arrives. INS will sort it out.

Sanctuary laws prevent this.

Everyone of age has some kind of ID on them, even if it's another countries.


Given that the majority of illegals are visa overstays, why would you accept an expired green card here? Would a school ID work? How about a drivers license? Library card? None of those show legal status, but that's what almost everyone would carry.

But I digress. You realize that cops can't just hold people indefinitely, even if they don't have an ID on them and are speaking a foreign language? That's got nothing to do with sanctuary laws.

You realize that if a cop holds someone who's without an ID but turns out to be a legal resident, that's probably going to be a lawsuit against the local jurisdiction, yes? That's got nothing to do with sanctuary laws.

Where do they hold the person? Who pays for it? Costs associated with this have nothing to do with sanctuary laws.

CA's sanctuary laws carve out violent criminals and gang members, which is where the deportation focus should be. If ICE can't currently follow what's going on in CA, they should staff up, starting with violent criminals. The vast majority of illegals aren't a threat to anyone. Local cops aren't immigration cops. Local residents shouldn't front the costs of immigration enforcement.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
No itís not. You also arenít subject to ice as a result of local cooperation.


You have heard of this case, right?

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muehler_v._Mena

California (and cities) Sanctuary laws prevent this from even happening.


The case involved a wanted gang member. CA sanctuary laws specifically carve out gang members and allow local cooperation with ICE. And they had a warrant.

You literally have no clue about this stuff.

BTW, did you read the portion of that case where they acknowledged Mena was, in fact, a legal resident? So for all your crying, you just gave me a case that didn't even involve an illegal alien. Lulz.

__

But letís try again. Questions about status are just the start. I asked you several times what comes next. So tell me, what comes next, but not when the person is a wanted gang member - because CA laws allow cooperation there already - but an elderly woman who allegedly stole a can of soup from the store?



Once again, ID.

If it's legit, even a expired green card, no problems. Without it, then a notification goes out, if there's indications of non-legal status, that's all it takes (no valid ID, no english). Local police just hold them until INS arrives. INS will sort it out.

Sanctuary laws prevent this.

Everyone of age has some kind of ID on them, even if it's another countries.


I've gotta ask - what point did you think you were proving by citing that lawsuit?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 06:11 PM

You had implied earlier that local police can't and shouldn't be allowed to inquire on immigration status. That case directly countered that claim.

Sanctuary laws prohibit it even further, major criminal or minor criminal activity.

Do a crime, you do the time, if you're a legal resident at least.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
You had implied earlier that local police can't and shouldn't be allowed to inquire on immigration status. That case directly countered that claim.

Sanctuary laws prohibit it even further, major criminal or minor criminal activity.

Do a crime, you do the time, if you're a legal resident at least.


I suggested they shouldn't do it, because it's not their job.

I suggested they shouldn't do it, because there are costs associated with it that local jurisdictions aren't ready to handle.

I suggested they shouldn't do it, because they're not trained to do it.

I suggested they shouldn't do it to people that aren't a threat.

I never suggested they're not allowed to do it in cases of more dangerous criminals or gang members. You did (incorrectly).

You keep talking in circles, and don't appear to understand what is actually allowed under current CA sanctuary laws. If you did, you wouldn't have posted links to a case that dealt with a known violent gang member who was a legal citizen as your big gotcha here.

You have simplistic ideas of how this all works. And like everything else that has to do with this topic, you're operating off of feelz instead of facts.
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
You had implied earlier that local police can't ... inquire on immigration status. That case directly countered that claim.



I've never suggested it's unconstitutional to inquire about legal status. I've just pointed out that there are lots of legal issues that come along with doing so and then taking the next steps of holding people you're unsure about and handing them over to ICE.

Maybe consider a case like this - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...m=.3facb4e35390

Would you be OK if Oceanside was force to bear the financial burden in a case like this if ICE has them hold a guy without a warrant?


Or how about this one? https://www.sbsun.com/2017/12/19/aclu-fi...of-grandmother/


Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 06:35 PM

OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?


I told you previously - having sanctuary laws in place spell out specifically what local jurisdictions can and cannot do, which prevents them from engaging in practices they're not fully equipped to handle, both staff wise and financially.

If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.

ICE has the ability to do this job. In fact, ICE has been scooping up illegals in big numbers in CA lately. They should keep doing just what they're doing. If they want local help with someone, they should get a warrant and all will be good.

Reference: https://www.latimes.com/politics/essenti...-htmlstory.html

Also note the little link in the above article that discusses the fact that sanctuary cities tend to have lower crime rates than non-sanctuary cities, but that's probably not important, hey?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 07:13 PM

Great!

Then WHY does a large faction on the left want to get rid of ICE and other illegal immigration enforcement?

If it's working so well, why the push to de-fund, or even get rid of ICE altogether?

Maybe they might be doing TOO good a job now?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Great!

Then WHY does a large faction on the left want to get rid of ICE and other illegal immigration enforcement?

If it's working so well, why the push to de-fund, or even get rid of ICE altogether?

Maybe they might be doing TOO good a job now?


Please link to "a large portion of the left" wanting to get rid of ICE.

The small number of those on the left who have said they'd like to see it go are complaining more about ICE's tactics under Trump than anything else.

But be aware it's not just "the left" who sees the current focus on deportation as harmful. Even those in ICE themselves think the deportation focus is taking away from more important national security interests: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/ice-immigration-eliminate-agency.html?module=inline
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
OK, I gotta ask, what makes Sanctuary laws against immigration enforcement so much better than not?


OK, I gotta ask, what part of CA's sanctuary laws are responsible for the cop at issue's death here, as we started discussing originally?
Posted By: Phi1

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Phi1
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/26/in...-release-dates/
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Phi1
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


If a county really wants to work with ICE, you know what the easiest thing to do is? Just make public all of the booking information at their jails. Then ICE can track everyone who comes and goes - Orange County does this. Doesn't require cops acting as ICE agents, doesn't put them at risk of lawsuits, doesn't cost them anything extra.


applause

So wait. You've just been trolling Surfdog and had the solution the whole time?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/26/in...-release-dates/


See if you can get LA and SF to go along with that plan. rolleyes
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 10:42 PM

"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:02 PM

But enough of this nonsense. The gist of all of your feelz seems to be we'd all be safer if there were no sanctuary laws, right? In fact, the opposite seems to be true:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/01/29/512002076/why-sanctuary-cities-are-safer

So now, what say you, Surfdog? Make the argument one more time that local jurisdictions that aren't trained in immigration matters and aren't staffed to handle immigration matters and don't have the budgets to deal with immigration matters (and lawsuits) should still partake in immigration matters, even though areas with sanctuary laws are, in fact, SAFER.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?




No more cherry picking than you are. Your poll is not even a couple months later. Polling this issue is like sticking your finger in the wind day to day. Some negative or positive MSM stories get the Dems AND Repubs swinging wildly at narratives and agendas (like the caravan arrival likely did the last couple months).

As for your "fact" that "some" people inside ICE would like to see it broken up?

So what? I'm sure there's also plenty "inside" that'd like to see it doubled in size, as YOU even suggested be done to relieve local police from trying to enforce.

Can't have it both ways, if you want illegal immigration actual rule of law enforced. Either you want more, tougher ICE, INS, BCP, or you want to see more open border type policies?

Which is it?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
"The poll showed increased support for calls to defund ICE - once an idea limited to only the most liberal members of the Democratic party and left-wing activists. Now 25 percent of voters and 43 percent of Democrats polled support the idea.

Morning Consult polled 1,999 registered voters between July 6 - 10 for the study.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley supports defunding ICE

Boston City Councilor At-Large Ayanna Pressley says she supports defunding the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in light of its "central role in enforcing deeply flawed, destructive immigration policies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of high-profile Democrats, including Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Jim McGovern, have said they want to defund the agency, which has drawn intense scrutiny following the separation of thousands of children from their parents at the southern border.

>> calls_to_defund_ice_creep_into_the_mainstream <<

I'd say 43% of Democrats polled is a "fairly large" portion of the party (and likely growing in some urban blue districts). It's not a small fringe element by any stretch.

So, yeah, sounds like they would like local police to help ICE with a accessible database. Ya right. rolleyes


Way to cherry pick! How about something a little more recent:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/few-democrats-favor-liberal-cry-to-abolish-ice-poll-finds


But you don't mention the fact that people inside ICE also want to see it broken up. Why?




No more cherry picking than you are. Your poll is not even a couple months later. Polling this issue is like sticking your finger in the wind day to day. Some negative or positive MSM stories get the Dems AND Repubs swinging wildly at narratives and agendas (like the caravan arrival likely did the last couple months).

As for your "fact" that "some" people inside ICE would like to see it broken up?

So what? I'm sure there's also plenty "inside" that'd like to see it doubled in size, as YOU even suggested be done to relieve local police from trying to enforce.

Can't have it both ways, if you want illegal immigration actual rule of law enforced. Either you want more, tougher ICE, INS, BCP, or you want to see more open border type policies?

Which is it?


Without looking, do you know what ICE was originally intended to do?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:18 PM

Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).


Specifically, they were set up to target criminal enterprises that engaged in cross-border crime.

The complaints coming from inside ICE are that they can't do the job they were tasked to do, because they're chasing around less threatening individuals.

Do you feel safer knowing that?

And again -

But enough of this nonsense. The gist of all of your feelz seems to be we'd all be safer if there were no sanctuary laws, right? In fact, the opposite seems to be true:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/01/29/512002076/why-sanctuary-cities-are-safer

So now, what say you, Surfdog? Make the argument one more time that local jurisdictions that aren't trained in immigration matters and aren't staffed to handle immigration matters and don't have the budgets to deal with immigration matters (and lawsuits) should still partake in immigration matters, even though areas with sanctuary laws are, in fact, SAFER overall.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).


Specifically, they were set up to target criminal enterprises that engaged in cross-border crime.

The complaints coming from inside ICE are that they can't do the job they were tasked to do, because they're chasing around less threatening individuals.

Do you feel safer knowing that?


If it saves the life of one cop, innocent citizen or other illegal immigrant, yes.

I'm sure many busts that were considered "more threatening" produced leads to others potentially as threatening, but maybe not quite as much. So what? lllegal immigrant teens don't all start out "bad" but if sucked into a notorious gang, say MS-13 for instance, they could eventually become ruthless cop killers or threats to their own community.

My community is basically fine (but problems exist not many miles away), but does that make those in their communities feel safe?
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/07/19 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Tracking law breaking immigrants mostly, but others get caught in the melee, too.

Too bad if they hang out with the wrong type of illegals (gangs, drug dealers, human traffic, etc;).


Specifically, they were set up to target criminal enterprises that engaged in cross-border crime.

The complaints coming from inside ICE are that they can't do the job they were tasked to do, because they're chasing around less threatening individuals.

Do you feel safer knowing that?


If it saves the life of one cop, innocent citizen or other illegal immigrant, yes.

I'm sure many busts that were considered "more threatening" produced leads to others potentially as threatening, but maybe not quite as much. So what? lllegal immigrant teens don't all start out "bad" but if sucked into a notorious gang, say MS-13 for instance, they could eventually become ruthless cop killers or threats to their own community.

My community is basically fine (but problems exist not many miles away), but does that make those in their communities feel safe?


LOL. You can ignore anything that doesn't fit your viewpoint, can't you?

The studies are showing that you're safer in a sanctuary area. That's the link I posted. And your response is "well, I don't care because I'd rather save one person who might be killed by an illegal alien"? In other words, you'll trade some crime at the hands of an illegal for more crime, because maybe it won't be at the hands of an illegal?

Brilliant.
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/08/19 12:09 AM



There's a "survey" or "study" for everything.......

>>uc-riverside-study-confirms-sanctuaries-not-safer-other-cities <<
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/08/19 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="10525499" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.7913669064748199"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/survey-says-gif-10525499">Survey Says GIF</a> from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/surveysays-gifs">Surveysays GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

There's a "survey" for everything.......

>>uc-riverside-study-confirms-sanctuaries-not-safer-other-cities <<


OK, let's take that one too (even though it is more limited to violent crime rather than crime as a whole). It shows no statistically significant difference in crime levels.

So tell me again why you want to spend your city/state's time, money and resources on immigration cooperation? If the additional costs associated with cooperation don't result in any difference in crime levels, why would you incur the additional costs?

Put another way - you have two choices for an investment. You can invest $10 and get $15 back in 12 months OR you can invest $20 and get $15 in 12 months. Even a guy who doesn't appreciate that .18 = 18% can do this math, right?
Posted By: Surfdog

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/08/19 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="10525499" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.7913669064748199"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/survey-says-gif-10525499">Survey Says GIF</a> from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/surveysays-gifs">Surveysays GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

There's a "survey" for everything.......

>>uc-riverside-study-confirms-sanctuaries-not-safer-other-cities <<


OK, let's take that one too (even though it is more limited to violent crime rather than crime as a whole). It shows no statistically significant difference in crime levels.

So tell me again why you want to spend your city/state's time, money and resources on immigration cooperation? If the additional costs associated with cooperation don't result in any difference in crime levels, why would you incur the additional costs?

Put another way - you have two choices for an investment. You can invest $10 and get $15 back in 12 months OR you can invest $20 and get $15 in 12 months. Even a guy who doesn't appreciate that .18 = 18% can do this math, right?


Ya, I guess the money saved makes up for all those needless murders, robberies, rapes, and child molesters that could've been reduced, or even never happened. Sounds like validation of a typical California state guv trade-off. rolleyes
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/08/19 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="10525499" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.7913669064748199"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/survey-says-gif-10525499">Survey Says GIF</a> from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/surveysays-gifs">Surveysays GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

There's a "survey" for everything.......

>>uc-riverside-study-confirms-sanctuaries-not-safer-other-cities <<


OK, let's take that one too (even though it is more limited to violent crime rather than crime as a whole). It shows no statistically significant difference in crime levels.

So tell me again why you want to spend your city/state's time, money and resources on immigration cooperation? If the additional costs associated with cooperation don't result in any difference in crime levels, why would you incur the additional costs?

Put another way - you have two choices for an investment. You can invest $10 and get $15 back in 12 months OR you can invest $20 and get $15 in 12 months. Even a guy who doesn't appreciate that .18 = 18% can do this math, right?


Ya, I guess the money saved makes up for all those needless murders, robberies, rapes, and child molesters that could've been reduced, or even never happened. Sounds like validation of a typical California state guv trade-off. rolleyes


You just showed me there's no difference in crime rates. And then you jump into all these bad things that will happen without cooperation. But it's the same. You're operating 100% on feelz now.
Posted By: GromsDad

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/09/19 12:14 PM

Image may contain: 1 person, sitting and text
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/09/19 04:15 PM

Did he kill more or fewer people than David Long?
Posted By: Kento

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/09/19 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Image may contain: 1 person, sitting and text


Good question!

Gun has a serial number - who was it originally registered to?
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: California Cop Killer Caught - - 01/11/19 08:06 PM

Another California cop was shot and killed last night. This time by a white male...

Quote:
The gunman had been described as a white man in his 20s, wearing a baseball cap, black jacket, jeans and black tactical boots, UC Davis officials wrote in an emergency alert to students.


https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Police-officer-shot-in-downtown-Davis-suspect-13525495.php



Wonder why there's no thread about this one? socrazy
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