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Obama Care helping you or hurting you $?

Posted By: Split

Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 01:43 PM

Don't know much about it - but my rates just shot up $400

Who does it help?

Who does it hurt?

Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 01:50 PM

I don't know yet. Too soon to tell. You see, we had to vote for the law before we could find out what was in the law. But, I have high hopes. I mean, I hear their website managed to sign up six whole people on day one. With efficiency like that, how can we lose?

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 01:59 PM

Open Enrollment hasn't started at my job yet so I don't know. However, insurance companies find an excuse to raise rates every year anyway so you can't blame that on Obamacare.

I went to the Covered California site and it was much cheaper than what we could have gotten through my wife's work if I didn't have such good coverage at my job.
Posted By: SlicedFeet

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:00 PM

Employer based for me so I don't know but when I had Blue Cross in the 90's, those fuckers jacked my prices up about 40% a year then one year almost 80%

My take is the healthcare system needed this push to get closer to a single payer system.

Life, Liberty, the pursuit of happiness and healthcare.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:02 PM

Also, I was just talking bout this with my wife and her self-covered friends back in Michigan are saving over $500 a month
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:04 PM

I'm just stoked that my gender reassignment surgery will be fully covered and paid for by you suckers.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:05 PM




Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:09 PM

Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation derived plan to make more money for Insurance Companies.

I'm surprised all the Rightards are so against it

Some people's rates may go down, some may go up. Eventually they'll all go up because insurance has us by the balls and healthcare/pharm is overpriced and ghoulish.

For-profit healthcare has to be stopped. Single-payer only.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:13 PM

I have an employer based plan. The Machine Queen Home Based Health Care Plan. They come right to my door. It's epic. Here I am getting my knee tuned up.



Unipod OUT!
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:19 PM

Nobody knows what the ratio of users vs non-users is going to end up being. If they can pull in enough new non-users to pay the freight then costs to those people who have to pay could be less.

But if they don't pull in enough non-users then costs to the people who pay will probably be higher. That's not politics, it's math. I would imagine these insurers are engaging in some guesswork this year in setting premiums that they won't need to do next year when it comes time renew these policies. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of them have guessed incorrectly; some being way high and others being way low.

I just read an article in the right wing media (Associated Press byline) talking about people who were insured with plans that are now deemed substandard giving serious consideration to the alternative of paying the penalty instead of the increased premiums.

Aside from anecdotes and reports that nobody can verify at this point it's not at all clear how common or uncommon these situations are.

If they're real common then the sticker shock of price increases could motivate more current subscribers to drop out, leaving those payers who remain to shoulder more of the costs. Meaning even higher premiums for them and possibly motivating even more to drop out - a vicious cycle.

It would be pretty ironic if the net result of these programs was to actually reduce the coverage and distribution of health care in the U.S..

The new policies they're writing this year in the face of the unknown is one thing. Next year when it's time to renew the insurers will have a much better idea of both the number of subscribers and the breakdown between users vs non-users. We can assume they'll adjust their rates from there.

Depending on how people make those decisions this year that could lead to lower premiums (and possibly more participation) next year or even higher premiums (possibly leading to less participation).

One thing I think we can count on is that the ACA is going to get blamed for 100% of any premium increases (whenever that happens) even if that's untrue and unfair.
Posted By: HeyyNow

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:22 PM

It's flat. High tide. Beautiful day, though
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:23 PM

Quote:

Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation derived plan to make more money for Insurance Companies.



You really gotta' keep an eye on those extreme right wing leftists.
Posted By: _____

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:27 PM

I really haven't been paying any attention to Obamacare.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:30 PM

Quote:

I have an employer based plan. The Machine Queen Home Based Health Care Plan. They come right to my door. It's epic. Here I am getting my knee tuned up.



Unipod OUT!



Good plan. Do you get good ether and whisky?

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:32 PM

Word to the wise: don't type amputation guide into Google Image search. I got what I wanted but the other things I have seen can't be unseen
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:52 PM

Quote:

I'm just stoked that my gender reassignment surgery will be fully covered and paid for by you suckers.




Your mom will finally have the son she always wanted.
Posted By: test_article

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 02:54 PM

In my opinion, a good many poor people need much greater access to mental health professionals than has been heretofore available. I believe there will be an explosion of mental health services under Obamacare.

I've had gov't.-managed health insurance for awhile now. My coverage has been updated as necessary to reflect implementation of Obamacare with no need for the insurer to cancel my policy and force me to the exchange.

Here are some of the things covered at no extra charge in my policy now that weren't there two years ago:

- annual counseling for sexually transmitted infections.
- annual counseling and screening for human immune-deficiency virus.
- contraceptive methods and counseling.
- screening and counseling for interpersonal and domestic violence.
- alcohol misuse screening and counseling
- obesity screening and counseling
- diet counseling
- tobacco use screening (interventions if pregnant)
- depression screening
- many more

I will be paying $6 more a month next year. Even though I probably won't use them, I believe I will benefit from these services. Shoot, the whole country will.
Posted By: Bud

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 03:00 PM

Self employed, I got one of those letters from my health insurance company (HMSA) telling me current plan is not good enough for the ACA and that I have to choose one of these other plans. The lowest one more than doubles my current premium. The deductibles/copays are are worse. But hey, it includes dental.... for my kids... whether I need/want it or not
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 03:02 PM

My letter from Kaiser said I got to do nothing.
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 03:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm just stoked that my gender reassignment surgery will be fully covered and paid for by you suckers.




Your mom will finally have the son she always wanted.






Therefore two people will be helped by Obamacare.
Posted By: R3W

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 03:16 PM

My company switched everyone to HSAs this year, including my Kaiser coverage. The company puts in $1250 and my premiums go down $50 / month. I'll put that into the HSA too (along with another $2k). Preventative care is free but pretty much everything else comes out of the HSA (or pocket) up to the $2500 annual deductible. Maximum out of pocket / year is $5800ish. I'm glad to have the HSA because I'm getting old.

Of course this is not directly related to ACA but it's how the company responded to rising health costs and the unknowns of ACA in general.
Posted By: test_article

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation derived plan to make more money for Insurance Companies.



You really gotta' keep an eye on those extreme right wing leftists.



As we all know, those most deserving of the benefits of democracy are those who most fully participate in the free market economy.

...and vice versa.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:17 PM

Quote:

I don't know yet. Too soon to tell. You see, we had to vote for the law before we could find out what was in the law. But, I have high hopes. I mean, I hear their website managed to sign up six whole people on day one. With efficiency like that, how can we lose?






It's been online for years, happy reading...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:21 PM

Quote:

Also, I was just talking bout this with my wife and her self-covered friends back in Michigan are saving over $500 a month




Is that an official quote? Or an exchange "estimate"?

Major news outlet had a story the other day on the estimates being 40-60% lower than actual cost.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:28 PM

From what I've read, a lot of people who's premiums have gone up when switching because they were coming from junk plans which covered next to nothing. Naturally they're going to see an increase. To be fair you need to compare the coverage they're getting in the return.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:47 PM

I don't think anyone would argue with the idea that more benefits is more benefits. But whether that's automatically a better deal for every consumer is going to be an opinion developed at the consumer level, not arbitrarily dictated or proclaimed at the political level.

At least some of those consumers deliberately chose those "junk plans" as part of their strategy and because they thought that best fit their needs and usage patterns. Denying them that choice may arguably be to their benefit but the fact remains that denying them that choice is what it is.

It's apparent that the opposition is going to do their best to trivialize the anecdotes involving positive experiences and that the supporters are going to trivialize the complaints involving unhappiness with the fee increases. But no matter what, by the time these programs stabilize in a couple years those people who are so affected are going to have their own opinions about whether being forced to buy more was a benefit to them or a punitive tax.

There will be popular opinion polls, and not all the respondents will be getting the handout.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 04:57 PM

BTW, I think it's of interest to note the basis of these complaints.

So far those complaints mostly seem to be all about the cost increases to the people who are paying. It doesn't seem to be so much about what benefits are or aren't included.

To cynically co-opt the soundbite Clinton's campaign used during his first election:

"It's the costs, stupid".
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:07 PM

I was told thursday I probably need emergency back surgery, but I needed an MRI first.

Oh, there is a three week wait to get the MRI and a wait to get into the surgeon.

I'd like to blame this on Obamacare but I think this is just how HMOs operate.

They frustrate you with the hope you go away or die.

Obama care is being scapegoated for a broken system, which is fine but it doesn't solve the problem.

Future wheel chair surfer out!
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't know yet. Too soon to tell. You see, we had to vote for the law before we could find out what was in the law. But, I have high hopes. I mean, I hear their website managed to sign up six whole people on day one. With efficiency like that, how can we lose?






It's been online for years, happy reading...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf






Really??

Incredible!!!

I did not know that. You sir are a living embodiment of Sherlockian detection! A seeker of obscurity. A shiner of light in darkness.

Have you told Nancy Pelosi of your amazing discovery?

I'm sure she will jump right on reading all 900 pages. Like you did of course!!

Posted By: O.T.

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:25 PM

Quote:

I was told thursday I probably need emergency back surgery, but I needed an MRI first.

Oh, there is a three week wait to get the MRI and a wait to get into the surgeon.

I'd like to blame this on Obamacare but I think this is just how HMOs operate.

They frustrate you with the hope you go away or die.

Obama care is being scapegoated for a broken system, which is fine but it doesn't solve the problem.

Future wheel chair surfer out!



Oh man! Sorry to hear that. Hang in ....
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't know yet. Too soon to tell. You see, we had to vote for the law before we could find out what was in the law. But, I have high hopes. I mean, I hear their website managed to sign up six whole people on day one. With efficiency like that, how can we lose?






It's been online for years, happy reading...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf






Really??

Incredible!!!

I did not know that. You sir are a living embodiment of Sherlockian detection! A seeker of obscurity. A shiner of light in darkness.

Have you told Nancy Pelosi of your amazing discovery?

I'm sure she will jump right on reading all 900 pages. Like you did of course!!






I love it when you drop GOP talking points while claiming to be a real maverick independent. It always warms my heart.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:27 PM

Quote:

I was told thursday I probably need emergency back surgery, but I needed an MRI first.

Oh, there is a three week wait to get the MRI and a wait to get into the surgeon.

I'd like to blame this on Obamacare but I think this is just how HMOs operate.

They frustrate you with the hope you go away or die.

Obama care is being scapegoated for a broken system, which is fine but it doesn't solve the problem.

Future wheel chair surfer out!




That sux big time. I hope everything works out for you.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 05:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't know yet. Too soon to tell. You see, we had to vote for the law before we could find out what was in the law. But, I have high hopes. I mean, I hear their website managed to sign up six whole people on day one. With efficiency like that, how can we lose?






It's been online for years, happy reading...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf






Really??

Incredible!!!

I did not know that. You sir are a living embodiment of Sherlockian detection! A seeker of obscurity. A shiner of light in darkness.

Have you told Nancy Pelosi of your amazing discovery?

I'm sure she will jump right on reading all 900 pages. Like you did of course!!






I love it when you drop GOP talking points while claiming to be a real maverick independent. It always warms my heart.




I love how you believe any criticism of the current administration amounts to "GOP talking points."

If you pull your head out for a second, you can see all kinds of criticism re Obama Care from the Democratic side of the aisle. No doubt they are all GOP shills!!



And I will take the above as an admission that you didn't read it either.



I seriously hope they manage to pull this thing together. A broken website doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing is broken. But come on. It is more than a little bit funny. Better to laugh than cry. Like that GOP shill John Stewart!

Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 06:00 PM

Quote:

I don't think anyone would argue with the idea that more benefits is more benefits. But whether that's automatically a better deal for every consumer is going to be an opinion developed at the consumer level, not arbitrarily dictated or proclaimed at the political level.

At least some of those consumers deliberately chose those "junk plans" as part of their strategy and because they thought that best fit their needs and usage patterns. Denying them that choice may arguably be to their benefit but the fact remains that denying them that choice is what it is.

It's apparent that the opposition is going to do their best to trivialize the anecdotes involving positive experiences and that the supporters are going to trivialize the complaints involving unhappiness with the fee increases. But no matter what, by the time these programs stabilize in a couple years those people who are so affected are going to have their own opinions about whether being forced to buy more was a benefit to them or a punitive tax.

There will be popular opinion polls, and not all the respondents will be getting the handout.




Of course, it's a different argument if people actually need/want more coverage. But it's pretty much a fact that nobody needs hospital coverage until they're in the hospital. I've been there and boy am I thankful that I had my $75k hospital visit as a 25yr old who previously thought I was invincible covered.

For example CBS reported on a woman with a $54/month plan that was being cancelled and her replacement plan would have been $591/month. Sounds shocking on the surface doesn't it? Well Greta Van Munster and Fox News of all places debunked it. Turned out after subsidies she'd only be paying $209/month which would still be a significant increase for many people. The other thing that CBS failed to mention was that this was one of many plans she had to choose from and not the cheapest. And about her prior coverage. It paid $50 towards doctors visits and she paid the difference. It paid $15 towards prescriptions and she paid the difference. She had zero hospital/emergency coverage. The most minimal ACA approved plan would give her much more than that. But the caveat is that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Just saying her premium is going to go up without comparing the plans is just flat out irresponsible lazy reporting and is a big reason why this country is so confused on the issue. It's like comparing the price of a cadillac to a yugo without comparing the vehicles you'd be getting for the money. They both have 4 wheels right?
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 06:29 PM

Quote:

Don't know much about it - but my rates just shot up $400





Fear not! You are merely being "transitioned" to a better plan that will cover you for things like condoms, diaper changes and reproductive healthcare for the previously living.

It turns out that you're too stupid to buy the insurance that President 'smartest guy in the room' thinks you ought to buy.

Listen to the Obamessiah, he knows what's best for you.
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 06:29 PM

Quote:

From what I've read, a lot of people who's premiums have gone up when switching because they were coming from junk plans which covered next to nothing. Naturally they're going to see an increase. To be fair you need to compare the coverage they're getting in the return.




Thats what I was thinking. Some of the plans Kaiser offered were for Health Insurance in name only (HINO) and it was $100 a month. Like I said. My plan (Full coverage) doesn't change.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 06:32 PM

when a person uses "Obama" as a prefix, especially multiple times, i assume they're more angry and stupid than concerned or pointed.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 06:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Also, I was just talking bout this with my wife and her self-covered friends back in Michigan are saving over $500 a month




Is that an official quote? Or an exchange "estimate"?

Major news outlet had a story the other day on the estimates being 40-60% lower than actual cost.



Official quote
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 07:04 PM

Another side of this that nobody is talking about is the
additional costs being placed on federal and state agencies
to comply with the new legislation. For my school alone
we're estimating a new full time position to monitor and
track our part time employees.

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 07:15 PM

Frv,

Obviously I agree with the idea that context counts. What I'm asking you to consider is that public opinion will be based on how much or how little these individuals value the bump in benefits as weighed against the costs they're paying.

The example you cite is a great example of this. At some point this subscriber apparently chose the $54/month junk plan, and not a somewhat better plan (albeit still substandard) with $200/month premiums. If she had $200/month to spend on her insurance in order to get some more benefits then why didn't she choose to do that before?

IMO, to completely ignore that previous choice and not even considered whatever justification she used to make it is to trivialize and marginalize it. And none of this has anything to do with individual liberty issues or TP talking points. I'm just talking about how people establish their spending priorities.

That by any objective measure the new $500 plan (that other people are subsidizing out of pocket) has more benefits than the $200 plan she could have had on her own doesn't diminish the fact that she's still gotta pay $150/month more for her insurance than she had to before. Whether she has the cash on hand every month to do that or not.

And if/when she runs short and fails to pay it she'll get dropped and possibly wind up in worse shape than she was before.

So sure, depending on how you phrase the question I'm sure most people in that situation would be pleasantly surprised at learning they wouldn't have to pay the full $500/month but are only on the hook for $200/month. Because after all, $200 is way less than $500. But at the same time, $200 is also way more than the $50 she previously chose to spend on these benefits. The truth of the one does not render irrelevant the truth of the other. You can ignore the issue by studiously avoiding asking the question but it's still out there. Potentially, anyway.

If we ask these folks how they feel about having the $50/month plan taken from them and now having to pay the $200 are we sure they're all going to be stoked about that?

You can proclaim that everyone is better off now and if they think otherwise they're being stupid. But people have a funny way of looking at their monthly budgets in terms of how much they have left over after all their bills are paid. That is, assuming they have enough to pay their bills to begin with.
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 07:45 PM

This is so scary, I'm really glad that American Exceptionalism is leading the way toward the idea of national healthcare, From all the sturm und drang it's obvious it's too difficult for the rest of the industrialised nations to try it just yet......
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 08:43 PM

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 08:47 PM

Unless you're the Umpa Loompas making the chocolate
bunny rabbits.
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 08:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think anyone would argue with the idea that more benefits is more benefits. But whether that's automatically a better deal for every consumer is going to be an opinion developed at the consumer level, not arbitrarily dictated or proclaimed at the political level.

At least some of those consumers deliberately chose those "junk plans" as part of their strategy and because they thought that best fit their needs and usage patterns. Denying them that choice may arguably be to their benefit but the fact remains that denying them that choice is what it is.

It's apparent that the opposition is going to do their best to trivialize the anecdotes involving positive experiences and that the supporters are going to trivialize the complaints involving unhappiness with the fee increases. But no matter what, by the time these programs stabilize in a couple years those people who are so affected are going to have their own opinions about whether being forced to buy more was a benefit to them or a punitive tax.

There will be popular opinion polls, and not all the respondents will be getting the handout.




Of course, it's a different argument if people actually need/want more coverage. But it's pretty much a fact that nobody needs hospital coverage until they're in the hospital. I've been there and boy am I thankful that I had my $75k hospital visit as a 25yr old who previously thought I was invincible covered.

For example CBS reported on a woman with a $54/month plan that was being cancelled and her replacement plan would have been $591/month. Sounds shocking on the surface doesn't it? Well Greta Van Munster and Fox News of all places debunked it. Turned out after subsidies she'd only be paying $209/month which would still be a significant increase for many people. The other thing that CBS failed to mention was that this was one of many plans she had to choose from and not the cheapest. And about her prior coverage. It paid $50 towards doctors visits and she paid the difference. It paid $15 towards prescriptions and she paid the difference. She had zero hospital/emergency coverage. The most minimal ACA approved plan would give her much more than that. But the caveat is that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Just saying her premium is going to go up without comparing the plans is just flat out irresponsible lazy reporting and is a big reason why this country is so confused on the issue. It's like comparing the price of a cadillac to a yugo without comparing the vehicles you'd be getting for the money. They both have 4 wheels right?





Dis wise I gets my nooze fromb da erbb!
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 08:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.




oh, i see. you're just not thoughtful, funny, or creative.
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.




oh, i see. you're just not thoughtful, funny, or creative.





He is funny when he drinks a lot. Its too early
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:28 PM

You were more funny when you drank a lot.
Posted By: O.T.

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.




oh, i see. you're just not thoughtful, funny, or creative.





He is funny when he drinks a lot. Its too early



True dat. But it's Saturday night and CS will be riffing like Miles in a few hours.
Posted By: LogHauler

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:35 PM

I am on an employee program but, effective 1-1-14 my wife was tossed off of the high risk pool for Oregon and must reapply elsewhere. She is high risk because she admitted to using an asthma inhaler a couple of times several years ago.

The kids, (all in good health) are affected as follows:

15yr daughter: $106 to $143 per month


21yr old son: $73 to $189 per month

23 yr old daughter: $144 to $225 per month
Posted By: 00H8R

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:39 PM

My rates when down almost $400 per month for my family, and my coverage went up. Lower deductible, lower co-pay...Obamacare rocks.
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 09:56 PM

We just had an open enrollment at my work. I dropped
down from a high coverage PPO that was costing me
$200+ out of pocket/month to a mid level PPO with a
higher annual deductible and an out of pocket expense of
$115/month.

According to Obamacare legislation though, this is still
a "Cadillac Plan".

Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 10:11 PM

Quote:

My rates when down almost $400 per month for my family, and my coverage went up. Lower deductible, lower co-pay...Obamacare rocks.



Well, there you have it, it's a success!

You probably didn't even have more than a 6 hour wait to enroll either.
Posted By: R3W

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 10:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.




oh, i see. you're just not thoughtful, funny, or creative.





He is funny when he drinks a lot. Its too early



True dat. But it's Saturday night and CS will be riffing like Miles in a few hours.




He's more like Miles on a banjo.
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 10:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My rates when down almost $400 per month for my family, and my coverage went up. Lower deductible, lower co-pay...Obamacare rocks.



Well, there you have it, it's a success!

You probably didn't even have more than a 6 hour wait to enroll either.


Thats still like $70 an hour per month!
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/02/13 11:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Guess who is going to foot the bill for all of this in the long run?



You keep forgetting that the leader of the Libtardian Church Cult aka President 'most totally coolest president ever' has exclusive access to the Money Tree.

It's free and that includes all the Unicorns and chocolate bunnyrabbits you want!




i know it's your style, but are you working on turning sarcasm into an actual language? i can never get around to considering your actual point because it's so clear from your wording that you don't care to engage in a discussion. too much reddit for you lately?



Look up the word 'mockery' knucklehead.




oh, i see. you're just not thoughtful, funny, or creative.





He is funny when he drinks a lot. Its too early



True dat. But it's Saturday night and CS will be riffing like Miles in a few hours.




He's more like Miles on a banjo.



Lucky for you my Grief, Diversity and Inclusion Counseling is covered under Obamacare. I'll deal with you cyber bullies once I get through to one of the counselors....should be within the next week or so.

This actually saves money because I will now cut myself less and spend less time at urgent care for wound treatment.

Yay!
Posted By: HatterasGlass

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 12:03 AM

I found out Thursday I will be hit for another $480 over the course of the next year for a family of 5. Awesome.
Posted By: Norm'

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 12:23 AM

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 12:30 AM

Quote:

My company switched everyone to HSAs this year, including my Kaiser coverage. The company puts in $1250 and my premiums go down $50 / month. I'll put that into the HSA too (along with another $2k). Preventative care is free but pretty much everything else comes out of the HSA (or pocket) up to the $2500 annual deductible. Maximum out of pocket / year is $5800ish. I'm glad to have the HSA because I'm getting old.

Of course this is not directly related to ACA but it's how the company responded to rising health costs and the unknowns of ACA in general.




no, i'm looking at my choices right now and the Bronze plan with HSA looks better and better, the more i look into it. Bronze would cut my premium in half, the savings from which i throw directly in an HSA, interest-bearing tax-free from start to finish, so it's there as needed but available for retirement if not used. no problem.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:19 AM

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies
Posted By: HBSURFDAD

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD




Oh goody, the insurance shill is here.

If there was a public option, like it should have been, the insurance companies would have to compete, instead of have a free reign, yet again.

The real and the biggest benefit of ACA is stopping the ridiculousness of insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Those whose premiums went up are punished by insurance companies because the insurance profiteers are finally forced to provide actual health service to their customers.
Those uninsured who are forced to join the pool are also paying for this. That's only fair - everybody ends up in hospital at some point.

The abolishment of pre-existing condition bullshit is why ACA is worth it in my book. But it ain't no single payer system, hope that's yet to come.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I employ a few people, and we pay for top of the line issuance for them and their families. BUT, if we pay too much for their insurance, we face a HUGE tax penalty. WTF?

I thought that the point of this was to have everyone insured, just not too insured?

Someone please explain this to me.



Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore. The tax you are talking about actually hurts insurance companies. Again, I understand your passion, but please learn some facts.

With PPACA EVERYBODYS cost are going up, this is a fact. The difference is some people are having others pay for a portion of their costs.

HBSURFDAD




A slight tax increase compared to a windfall of profit? Sorry, not buying it. And costs are going up, god forbid it cuts into profit. I know that the whole healthcare industry is a racket, not just insurance, and you've helped me to understand that but to think that Obamacare is actually hurting insurance companies is ridiculous.

3. Obamacare: Health care dead-end

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was a victory for corporate America. In exchange for giving up their rules against covering pre-existing conditions and agreeing to raise the age limit in which children could be covered under their parents’ policy, the health insurance corporations got the federal government to require every citizen to buy their product and commit to subsidizing those that can’t afford the price. The pharmaceutical industry received even stronger government protection of their price-gouging monopolies. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that there will still be 30 million uninsured Americans by the end of the decade. Tens of millions more will be under-insured as the companies are free to raise their premiums and deductibles.

Although it abandoned the public option, the White House whispers to Democrats that Obamacare will pave the way for single-payer. Fat chance. The bill was inspired by the right-wing Heritage Foundation and largely drafted by a former insurance company executive precisely to stop single-payer from ever happening. Meanwhile, the corporate dominated health care system will continue to be a huge drag on our global competitiveness and long-term fiscal health.
Posted By: HBSURFDAD

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 11:27 AM

Obamacare is not hurting or helping insurance companies, it is just changing how they play the game. The bidding process on the exchanges will balance the additional enrolled so in my guess "profits" will be about the same, but costs for the whole process will be much higher. Look at carrier stocks, most are flat for the whole process. No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!

HBSURFDAD
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 12:13 PM

Quote:

Obamacare is not hurting or helping insurance companies, it is just changing how they play the game. The bidding process on the exchanges will balance the additional enrolled so in my guess "profits" will be about the same, but costs for the whole process will be much higher. Look at carrier stocks, most are flat for the whole process. No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!

HBSURFDAD




The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.
What a disaster!

And yes, the health care system is broken and Rightards like it that way because it's good for business.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 12:21 PM

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you haven't heard yet, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying coverage all together for things like genetic disorders, actually existed.

Until now that is.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.
Posted By: 00H8R

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My rates when down almost $400 per month for my family, and my coverage went up. Lower deductible, lower co-pay...Obamacare rocks.



Well, there you have it, it's a success!

You probably didn't even have more than a 6 hour wait to enroll either.




So what is your quote, and how is that compared to your current plan?
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:31 PM

Quote:

The real and the biggest benefit of ACA is stopping the ridiculousness of insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Those whose premiums went up are punished by insurance companies because the insurance profiteers are finally forced to provide actual health service to their customers.
Those uninsured who are forced to join the pool are also paying for this. That's only fair - everybody ends up in hospital at some point.




Now that's a line of discussion I'd like to pursue.

It's basically saying that even if you're healthy you're still going to end up using a lot of medical care and services at some point in your life so you need to pay your fair share.

First of all I'd like to say I completely agree that on average everyone uses a lot of medical care at some point, often at the end-of-life stages; but also including neo-natal and childbirth and pediatrics and emergency medicine.

I also agree that people who use the services but who don't pay their providers add to the costs for the people who do pay.

The angle to this I want to discuss is what impact do these non-payers have on the costs at the provider level.

When it comes to these non-payers, what's their usage of medical care across the entire spectrum of services?

Does the average urologist or endocrinologist spend a significant amount of their time providing services to these non-payers? Do the MRI operators spend a significant percentage of their capacity to provide free scans to non-payers? Do the Pharma corporations give away for free a significant portion of their production capacity?

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?

If the law requires these providers and hospitals to provide free emergency services regardless of the patient's ability to pay then why are the costs of other services that these patients do not have access to and which they cannot use as high as they are?

If the pharma companies aren't required to provide free meds to anyone then why are those costs so high?

If you're poor and you don't have insurance and you contract cancer you're probably not going to get treatment beyond whatever happens in an ER. That means that oncologist probably isn't providing free services to poor people and he's getting paid for everything he does. That being the case, why is the all-cash price for a round of chemo from this doctor working at this cancer clinic cost as much as it does?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.



Not that I know of. What's your point?

That there are tons of poor people not getting the treatment that they need in order to survive?

This aint England bro (thank your beloved NHS) where it's all paid for........whether or not you get it in time is irrelevant, it's all paid for and it makes you feel good about yourself. The poor f'ers that die waiting for care?
Acceptable collateral damage apparently.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:53 PM

Quote:

No costs are going down, someone else is picking up the difference and then some more. You and I both know the current system is broken, now with obamacare we just added another symptom!



Absolutely 100%

Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:53 PM

Quote:

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?




There's plenty of blame to go around, insurance companies are just a tip of the iceberg. But they are an important link in the pyramid scheme that is passes for healthcare.

As long as the private sector is given a free reign with little regulation, we will be paying through the nose for very little.

I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.

I recently got a new GP at Scripps, being 50 this year and all.
$240 dollars for a 5 minute chat that taught me nothing and $365 dollars for a blood test that I haven't even seen (the nurse called and said that my "cholesterol is a little high") and that's it. $600 and I'm not any better off for it. I'm sure somebody else is.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 01:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.



Not that I know of. What's your point?

That there are tons of poor people not getting the treatment that they need in order to survive?

This aint England bro (thank your beloved NHS) where it's all paid for........whether or not you get it in time is irrelevant, it's all paid for and it makes you feel good about yourself. The poor f'ers that die waiting for care?
Acceptable collateral damage apparently.




You have no clue about NHS and apparently don't even realize that YOU could have been denied treatments for the above listed medical issues even if you've had insurance in the US.
NHS is flawless in comparison, in my experience and in the factual world.


To think that you claim to deal with "facts".
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:06 PM

My wife used to work at the county hospital. That is where they take people with no insurance. People with no insurance receive cancer treatments and surgeries. I know a guy who had a complex back surgery for pain relief at government expense. I know another one who had a double hip replacement done with no insurance. It was fairly routine for illegals to wind up with a baby in the NICU where they ran up, literally, million dollar bills for months of care and then waved bye bye. No attempt at collecting ever made.

Now the people who get stuffed, are the people who are making some money but have no insurance or substandard insurance. If you are illegal or homeless, you went to the head of the line. The people who routinely got financially ruined where the people who were working, trying to do the right thing who maybe had a substandard insurance plan or couldn't get insurance because of preexisting conditions.

And yes, they will treat you to save your life, but my God they will fark with you heavily. At a time of severe emotional stress, pain and diminished capacity, they will harass, intimidate and pursue.

Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Obama care "symptom" is that everybody is covered and insurance corpos can't deny you care when you most need it.



The "corpo's cannot deny you "care" dingleberry.

Have you ever actually considered getting the facts prior to spouting off?
Didn't think so, it'd be way hard on your self esteem when you found out that the real world and television are two different things.




I know that it's hard to get the facts straight when you live in your mom's basement. Since you have heard, denying care for pre-existing condition and denying cover had all together for things like genetic disorders actually existed.

Until now that is.



No one is getting denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition. If you show up at urgent care with a pre-existing infected wound you will receive healthcare.

You just may not be the one actually PAYING for it.




They do lung transplants at the ER?
Cancer treatments? Chemo? MRI?
Heart bypass surgery?
Dialysis?
Treat genetic disorders?
Mental care?
...

You keep repeating your "facts" over and over again here, now you need to answer the questions above.
My bet is that you won't.



Not that I know of. What's your point?

That there are tons of poor people not getting the treatment that they need in order to survive?

This aint England bro (thank your beloved NHS) where it's all paid for........whether or not you get it in time is irrelevant, it's all paid for and it makes you feel good about yourself. The poor f'ers that die waiting for care?
Acceptable collateral damage apparently.




You have no clue about NHS and apparently don't even realize that YOU could have been denied treatments for the above listed medical issues even if you've had insurance in the US.
NHS is flawless in comparison, in my experience and in the factual world.


To think that you claim to deal with "facts".



I've got plenty of clue about the NHS, I read the British press. It's unflattering at best, deadly at worst. Oh, but at least everybody waits equally!......or the rich ones fly to Cuba and pay cash for "free" Cuban healthcare so they don't have to wait around for some self righteous government BEuro-crat to decide whether or not it's in the states best interest to pay to save your ass.

Awesome!
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?




There's plenty of blame to go around, insurance companies are just a tip of the iceberg. But they are an important link in the pyramid scheme that is passes for healthcare.

As long as the private sector is given a free reign with little regulation, we will be paying through the nose for very little.

I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.

I recently got a new GP at Scripps, being 50 this year and all.
$240 dollars for a 5 minute chat that taught me nothing and $365 dollars for a blood test that I haven't even seen (the nurse called and said that my "cholesterol is a little high") and that's it. $600 and I'm not any better off for it. I'm sure somebody else is.




I can't quite tell from the way you put it - are you saying that those are the cash prices for those services that you're paying out of pocket or are those the prices being billed to an insurer?

I was reading an article a while back on the all-cash doctors and commenting that their pricing is lower due to not dealing with insurance networks. But I don't recall what the difference was.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:12 PM

Quote:

My wife used to work at the county hospital. That is where they take people with no insurance. People with no insurance receive cancer treatments and surgeries. I know a guy who had a complex back surgery for pain relief at government expense. I know another one who had a double hip replacement done with no insurance. It was fairly routine for illegals to wind up with a baby in the NICU where they ran up, literally, million dollar bills for months of care and then waved bye bye. No attempt at collecting ever made.

Now the people who get stuffed, are the people who are making some money but have no insurance or substandard insurance. If you are illegal or homeless, you went to the head of the line. The people who routinely got financially ruined where the people who were working, trying to do the right thing who maybe had a substandard insurance plan or couldn't get insurance because of preexisting conditions.

And yes, they will treat you to save your life, but my God they will fark with you heavily. At a time of severe emotional stress, pain and diminished capacity, they will harass, intimidate and pursue.






So who is paying the freight at the County hospitals? The County? the state? the feds? And if so, how does their involvement affect our costs on the other side?
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:13 PM

Major benefit.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:14 PM

Quote:

What's your point?




The point is that you claim to have facts and that those facts say that nobody gets denied health care because they can go to the ER.
I proved you wrong, that's my point.
Now you talk about NHS.

You are a true idiot. And yes, you could probably have that looked at under NHS.

Ask any Brit if they would give up NHS and have it substituted with health care provided by unregulated, publicly traded corporations. They would laugh and possibly spit in your face.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:17 PM

The bottom line is it's tax dollars that pay for it. I would assume $hit rolls down hill. Where we are.



Interestingly enough, every local physician I know has told me that if their life was on the line via car accident or traumatic injury, they would prefer county hospital. Because that's where they take the gunshot wounds, stabbings, etc etc on a routine basis. The ER doctors are battle tested and you can't throw anything at them they probably don't have to deal with on a weekly basis.
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:20 PM

More utter bullshitte from CS, there's no pre-existing condition denials n this country? You're an unmitigated liar.

@/4 of the medical bankruptcies are people who have insurance when they get sick.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?




There's plenty of blame to go around, insurance companies are just a tip of the iceberg. But they are an important link in the pyramid scheme that is passes for healthcare.

As long as the private sector is given a free reign with little regulation, we will be paying through the nose for very little.

I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.

I recently got a new GP at Scripps, being 50 this year and all.
$240 dollars for a 5 minute chat that taught me nothing and $365 dollars for a blood test that I haven't even seen (the nurse called and said that my "cholesterol is a little high") and that's it. $600 and I'm not any better off for it. I'm sure somebody else is.




I can't quite tell from the way you put it - are you saying that those are the cash prices for those services that you're paying out of pocket or are those the prices being billed to an insurer?

I was reading an article a while back on the all-cash doctors and commenting that their pricing is lower due to not dealing with insurance networks. But I don't recall what the difference was.




That's what I got billed by Scripps. I pay 100% of it.
Some doctors I've been to offer a cash discount for non-insured, some of them only for the first visit.

I don't know any business where you can charge $240 for a 5 minute chat and questionaire and you don't even have to be polite or answer questions. Maybe lawyers.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:27 PM

I think you guys are having a semantics problem re treatment vs coverage.

If you have no insurance and a pre-existing condition they will of course treat you.

However, previous to Obama care, you couldn't get insurance to cover your pre-existing condition.

Treatment Vs coverage.

I have a friend who has a family, lost a job and his medical insurance, got another job and was making good money. Diabetic. Could not buy insurance for anything that would not bankrupt your average upper middle class family. He had to run naked until Obama care kicked in and he was able to get insurance again.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:34 PM

Quote:

I think you guys are having a semantics problem re treatment vs coverage.

If you have no insurance and a pre-existing condition they will of course treat you.




Well, from what I know that's not always been the case.

In my experience you don't even get to set up an appointment, let alone see a doctor without either providing proof of insurance or giving out your credit card number. That is always the first order of health care business.

Not to mention preventive care, like cancer, heart, colenoscopy.... Who provides MRI for free?
Posted By: R3W

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If the insurance companies are the big public enemy that sucks up a large percentage of the gross then why is the cash price of these services direct from the providers (and bypassing the insurance companies) as high as they are?




There's plenty of blame to go around, insurance companies are just a tip of the iceberg. But they are an important link in the pyramid scheme that is passes for healthcare.

As long as the private sector is given a free reign with little regulation, we will be paying through the nose for very little.

I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.

I recently got a new GP at Scripps, being 50 this year and all.
$240 dollars for a 5 minute chat that taught me nothing and $365 dollars for a blood test that I haven't even seen (the nurse called and said that my "cholesterol is a little high") and that's it. $600 and I'm not any better off for it. I'm sure somebody else is.




I can't quite tell from the way you put it - are you saying that those are the cash prices for those services that you're paying out of pocket or are those the prices being billed to an insurer?

I was reading an article a while back on the all-cash doctors and commenting that their pricing is lower due to not dealing with insurance networks. But I don't recall what the difference was.




With the move to higher deductible policies, more out of pocket expenses, HSA's etc., etc., it's important that we (like the royal we man) learn to be better healthcare "consumers". For basic services, office visits, consultations, tests, etc., your provider should be able to estimate the cost in advance and you can decide whether you want it. "$250 for a chat? No thanks, read my chart."
We don't give free rein to our auto mechanics, we shouldn't with these guys either.
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:41 PM

There's no confusion on my part, I recognise that all will get treated at some point, the point CS is trying to make is that ER treatment vs. Insurance is one and the same when your illness is being treated, it's not, and people who are denied insurance for what are basic human conditions are denied preventative care when it would save all involved a lot of money to make sure they can get treated outside of the most expensive options first.....

Why do we only cover people over 65 in a universal manner in this country? It's bizarro world.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:42 PM

You're not reading what I wrote.

If you are homeless, illegal, have no assets etc your medical care starts in the ER at a county hospital. (at least that is the way it used to work) They are NOT going to turn away a diabetic with a foot that has gangrene because he has a pre existing condition. That is how my one friend wound up getting back surgery. ER, county hospital multiple times. They ordered an MRI. Sent him to see a surgeon. Then he had surgery. This is where working for cash or being part of a black market economy, (drugs, prostitution, cash surfboards, etc) can work to your advantage. The moment they know you have a job that provides anything beyond bare subsistence or any assets, it starts getting sketchy.

If you go to private physicians and have no insurance, of course they are going to turn you down. They want to get paid. From experience they know that taking in patients with no insurance often equates to working for free. Nobody likes to work for free.

You had to go to the ER at a county hospital and god help you, start the process.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:46 PM

Quote:

We don't give free rein to our auto mechanics, we shouldn't with these guys either.




Exactly.

What buffles me is that you don't know prices before you go in. Then you get slapped with a random, non-itemized bill which you don't even have the right to question. A completely legal (and encouraged) practice. Unreal.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:50 PM

I guess I was talking more about the working poor and middle class than homeless.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:55 PM

Quote:

I guess I was talking more about the working poor and middle class than homeless.




That's who gets fvcked. We have some friends, it's a couple, that were both employed with good jobs and went to have babies. Turned out they had twins. The twins wound up in NICU for months. They turned out fine and are indeed, lovely young women now. Mom and dad were financially ruined. Their insurance refused payment after a few weeks due to some contractual loop hole.

There have been people who have intentionally bankrupted themselves, given away assets etc so they could qualify for help.

I understand that we need to help the people at the bottom, but in some ways, some of those people are total derelicts/criminals and they get the free pass while people who are struggling and striving, trying to better themselves and do the right thing get hosed.

Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 02:55 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm going to change my mind about Obamacare as soon I get my "free" gender reassignment surgery.
It turns out that confusion is a covered pre-existing condition. This would go a long way toward explaining why the Libtardian Horde is so in love with socialized medicine since confusion is their preferred state.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:00 PM

Quote:

If you go to private physicians and have no insurance, of course they are going to turn you down. They want to get paid. From experience they know that taking in patients with no insurance often equates to working for free. Nobody likes to work for free.




Nope and they shouldn't. That's why a single payer system works.

There is also that little thing called medical ethics that nobody wants to talk about when discussing health care. It's all business all the time.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:04 PM

Quote:

Nope




What do you mean "Nope"?

I'm stating facts.

You don't like them, nor do I, but that doesn't change them.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Nope




What do you mean "Nope"?

I'm stating facts.

You don't like them, nor do I, but that doesn't change them.




I meant, nope - nobody likes to work for free and they should not work for free. I was being agreeable.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:11 PM

Thank you for the clarification.

Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:18 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure I'm going to change my mind about Obamacare as soon I get my "free" gender reassignment surgery.
.




We covered this 2 pages ago, all that is left to consider is which seamstress is going to sew all your skirts into jorts.....
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 03:57 PM

Quote:


I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.





Damn, do you trade stocks on margin as well?

I mean, you've rightly stated the stats on personal bankruptcies caused by medical issues in the past and yet you're still willing to roll the dice like that, wow
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I was talking more about the working poor and middle class than homeless.




That's who gets fvcked. We have some friends, it's a couple, that were both employed with good jobs and went to have babies. Turned out they had twins. The twins wound up in NICU for months. They turned out fine and are indeed, lovely young women now. Mom and dad were financially ruined. Their insurance refused payment after a few weeks due to some contractual loop hole.

There have been people who have intentionally bankrupted themselves, given away assets etc so they could qualify for help.

I understand that we need to help the people at the bottom, but in some ways, some of those people are total derelicts/criminals and they get the free pass while people who are struggling and striving, trying to better themselves and do the right thing get hosed.





True

My son fell while we were in the MB area and we went to Mercy to get it checked out. I didn't have my wallet (therefore insurance card) and they would not let us leave until we paid $150. Meanwhile, there are bums everywhere in the ER around us who I am sure get released without the $150 fee.

Giving my insurance info after the fact was a real mess as well. We routinely kept getting bills that I had to send to the insurance company to get paid. After I thought it was all done, mystery bills kept showing up (small amounts of around $50). I finally ended up paying one of them but I have no idea.

If we didn't look like a middle class family I'm sure I could have gotten out of it all for free. I rail on insurance companies a lot because they are complicit in the ripping off but the providers are just as bad if not worse

If anything really bad did happen I'd be rolling IBG style to bankruptcy without even attempting to pay. Fvck em.
Posted By: sirfun

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Nope




What do you mean "Nope"?

I'm stating facts.

You don't like them, nor do I, but that doesn't change them.




I meant, nope - nobody likes to work for free and they should not work for free. I was being agreeable.



Maybe you would get along better with Gdaddy and such if he knew you were being agreeable when you say "Nope" ??
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I was talking more about the working poor and middle class than homeless.




That's who gets fvcked. We have some friends, it's a couple, that were both employed with good jobs and went to have babies. Turned out they had twins. The twins wound up in NICU for months. They turned out fine and are indeed, lovely young women now. Mom and dad were financially ruined. Their insurance refused payment after a few weeks due to some contractual loop hole.

There have been people who have intentionally bankrupted themselves, given away assets etc so they could qualify for help.

I understand that we need to help the people at the bottom, but in some ways, some of those people are total derelicts/criminals and they get the free pass while people who are struggling and striving, trying to better themselves and do the right thing get hosed.







Only problem with what you described is that your friends who got burned actually had health insurance. They got dropped due to bullshiat loopholes that allow for insurance providers to drop customers when they need it most. I can relate to your story. My boss has two 18 month old twins that were micro pre-mes birthed at 25wks. The girl weighed less than a pound. They spent almost 6 months in NICU and have a combined running tab of over $8 million dollars. They're home and progressing relatively well but their ongoing medical costs are far more than typical children. They require frequent check-ups and testing along with regular physical and occupational therapy that will likely go on for years. One of the better things that Obamacare does is prevent people like this from being dropped or hitting caps. Had this happened 2yrs earlier his children would have hit their $2 million lifetime cap in their first 6 months of life. Obamacare prevented them from being dropped and facing financial ruin.

The homeless derelicts have little to do with that. That's about for profit businesses backing out when they see the costs get too high. Obamacare changed that.

But there is still a point there about the people at the bottom. The biggest problem is that our old system did offer minimal aid for people at the bottom. At least when it came to emergencies. But the real victims were those lost in the middle. Those who earned just over a threshold not to qualify for govt aid and didn't receive employer provided insurance. I have a close family friend who works as an advocate for low income single mothers. It's her job to help them use the system as best they can. She knows it inside and out. The kicker is she's a single mother herself and she earns just over that threshold to not qualify for poop. No food stamps. No medicaid for her or her son. Nothing. And she scrapes by.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:44 PM

a lot of this seems to hinge on the idea that there is consistency in pricing, practice, and matters of decision from hospital to hospital, place to place, to be affected equally by new laws. from what i've seen, it's more random. person A needs healthcare; they may or may not have a previous condition, may or may not have insurance, may or may not have money, and may or may not go to the same doctor or hospital as person B. no matter which way you go on any/all of those stipulations, you don't have enough information to make any conclusions about what they will pay monthly to be insured, or what they will pay out of pocket when they're treated. it's a stock market algorithm level mess of invisible number moving.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Only problem with what you described is that your friends who got burned actually had health insurance.




What's the problem? That is what it is. Or was. Hopefully. That was my point. You went on from there to restate my points.




Not sure what your looking for (if anything) from me...
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 04:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Only problem with what you described is that your friends who got burned actually had health insurance.




What's the problem? That is what it is. Or was. Hopefully. That was my point. You went on from there to restate my points.




Not sure what your looking for (if anything) from me...




I just don't see what it has to do with homeless derelicts. The fact that that won't happen under Obamacare is a good thing.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 05:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Only problem with what you described is that your friends who got burned actually had health insurance.




What's the problem? That is what it is. Or was. Hopefully. That was my point. You went on from there to restate my points.




Not sure what your looking for (if anything) from me...




I just don't see what it has to do with homeless derelicts. The fact that that won't happen under Obamacare is a good thing.




Oh holy crap.

How stoned are you right now?

Stop it.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 05:22 PM

I keep reading about how the young healthy people aren't going to sign up. I remember my mid 20's and there's no way I would have back then. if those are the people who are supposed to find this it seems like the money is going to have to come from somewhere else.

When someone is sick they should be able to see a doctor. It seems silly that this costs a nation of 45 million uninsured people over a trillion dollars. Aren't we supposed to be smarter than this?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 05:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I'm self-employed and years ago I decided to give Blue Cross a boot. I've been paying a lot for very little. I've been paying out of the pocket for all my medical expenses so believe me, I know what a rip off the whole thing is because I get to pay the bills. From $500 for an ER band aid to $2000 dollar crown.





Damn, do you trade stocks on margin as well?

I mean, you've rightly stated the stats on personal bankruptcies caused by medical issues in the past and yet you're still willing to roll the dice like that, wow




My coverage sucked and all my conditions were pre-existing. Shoulder and back problems, surfer's ear..... If I wanted surgery I would have been on my own anyway.

I don't trade stocks, I prefer a honest way of making money, like you know, work.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 06:02 PM

Quote:

I prefer a honest way of making money



Why in Gods name would we take advice on putting together a "healthcare" system from you?
You fucksticks can't even design and build a functioning automobile let alone a healthcare system for 300 million people.

After 30 years, STILL the cutting edge of Serbo-Croation technology!
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 06:20 PM

I lived longer elsewhere than I've lived in Yugoslavia.

We can't choose where we're born but we can choose to be dumb cvunts.

But by all means keep believing that I, myself, designed the Yugo.

By that logic I'm also as smart as Tesla, since we come from the same gene pool.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 07:00 PM

Quote:

I keep reading about how the young healthy people aren't going to sign up. I remember my mid 20's and there's no way I would have back then. if those are the people who are supposed to find this it seems like the money is going to have to come from somewhere else.

When someone is sick they should be able to see a doctor. It seems silly that this costs a nation of 45 million uninsured people over a trillion dollars. Aren't we supposed to be smarter than this?




They had an article in the Union Tribune just yesterday or Friday about younger people not signing up due to lack of funds.

I don't normally cut-n-paste but here are the first couple paragraphs of that article:

Quote:

Tending bar three days a week, with student loans still on the books, health insurance has not been a financial possibility for Promise Monroe of San Diego. And after checking prices on the state’s new health insurance exchange, she said, nothing has changed.

Even though government subsidies would reduce her monthly premium for a “sliver” exchange plan from $246 to $150, it will still be cheaper to pay the government’s fine, $95 or 1 percent of income.

Though she said she generally supports Obamacare’s goal of affordable care for all, Monroe said that she will keep going to local clinics for care when she needs in and just pay the fine.

“I don’t like sitting in a clinic. I would rather go to a doctor’s office, but that’s a luxury I can’t afford at this point,” Monroe said.




Clicky>>>>> SD Union Tribune: Young are seen as key to Obamacare

The $150/month is a great deal for her, but that's irrelevant in her case when considering the fact she still doesn't have it. She's making a decision, and the basis of that decision is wholly unrelated to her politics or her compassion for her fellow man. Indeed, she's making this decision is spite of her politics.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 07:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I keep reading about how the young healthy people aren't going to sign up. I remember my mid 20's and there's no way I would have back then. if those are the people who are supposed to find this it seems like the money is going to have to come from somewhere else.

When someone is sick they should be able to see a doctor. It seems silly that this costs a nation of 45 million uninsured people over a trillion dollars. Aren't we supposed to be smarter than this?




They had an article in the Union Tribune just yesterday or Friday about younger people not signing up due to lack of funds.

I don't normally cut-n-paste but here are the first couple paragraphs of that article:

Quote:

Tending bar three days a week, with student loans still on the books, health insurance has not been a financial possibility for Promise Monroe of San Diego. And after checking prices on the state’s new health insurance exchange, she said, nothing has changed.

Even though government subsidies would reduce her monthly premium for a “sliver” exchange plan from $246 to $150, it will still be cheaper to pay the government’s fine, $95 or 1 percent of income.

Though she said she generally supports Obamacare’s goal of affordable care for all, Monroe said that she will keep going to local clinics for care when she needs in and just pay the fine.

“I don’t like sitting in a clinic. I would rather go to a doctor’s office, but that’s a luxury I can’t afford at this point,” Monroe said.




Clicky>>>>> SD Union Tribune: Young are seen as key to Obamacare

The $150/month is a great deal for her, but that's irrelevant in her case when considering the fact she still doesn't have it. She's making a decision, and the basis of that decision is wholly unrelated to her politics or her compassion for her fellow man. Indeed, she's making this decision is spite of her politics.




for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for. this is true before "Obamacare" and it will be true after. everyone in my peer group who doesn't have insurance paid for by their employer has made the same choice. if this plan hinges on American twenty somethings deciding to make a collective major lifestyle change, it's doomed to fail.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 07:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I keep reading about how the young healthy people aren't going to sign up. I remember my mid 20's and there's no way I would have back then. if those are the people who are supposed to find this it seems like the money is going to have to come from somewhere else.

When someone is sick they should be able to see a doctor. It seems silly that this costs a nation of 45 million uninsured people over a trillion dollars. Aren't we supposed to be smarter than this?




They had an article in the Union Tribune just yesterday or Friday about younger people not signing up due to lack of funds.

I don't normally cut-n-paste but here are the first couple paragraphs of that article:

Quote:

Tending bar three days a week, with student loans still on the books, health insurance has not been a financial possibility for Promise Monroe of San Diego. And after checking prices on the state’s new health insurance exchange, she said, nothing has changed.

Even though government subsidies would reduce her monthly premium for a “sliver” exchange plan from $246 to $150, it will still be cheaper to pay the government’s fine, $95 or 1 percent of income.

Though she said she generally supports Obamacare’s goal of affordable care for all, Monroe said that she will keep going to local clinics for care when she needs in and just pay the fine.

“I don’t like sitting in a clinic. I would rather go to a doctor’s office, but that’s a luxury I can’t afford at this point,” Monroe said.




Clicky>>>>> SD Union Tribune: Young are seen as key to Obamacare

The $150/month is a great deal for her, but that's irrelevant in her case when considering the fact she still doesn't have it. She's making a decision, and the basis of that decision is wholly unrelated to her politics or her compassion for her fellow man. Indeed, she's making this decision is spite of her politics.




for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for. this is true before "Obamacare" and it will be true after. everyone in my peer group who doesn't have insurance paid for by their employer has made the same choice. if this plan hinges on American twenty somethings deciding to make a collective major lifestyle change, it's doomed to fail.



let's simplify that last statement just a little bit:

if any f*cking thing hinges on American twenty somethings deciding to make a collective major lifestyle change, it's doomed to fail.

now turn down that crap you call music, and get off my lawn

cowabunga
rg
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 07:55 PM

I wouldn't phrase this as a generational conflict. I consider it in terms of users vs non-users.

Not everyone who is older has been using these services or anticipates needing to use them in the near future. If they get hit with 40% increases some of them may decide to sit it out, too.

Heck, some people who might want and value the coverage may be forced to sit it out because they can't afford it.

If someone is hit with a $400/month increase on their premiums that additional cost has to come from somewhere in their budget. Food, clothing, housing, cars, weed/alcohol, vacations, college fund or braces for their kids. Something has to give because those extra costs don't pay themselves.

Simply imposing the tax doesn't automatically create the revenue it takes to pay it.
Posted By: sirfun

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 07:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I keep reading about how the young healthy people aren't going to sign up. I remember my mid 20's and there's no way I would have back then. if those are the people who are supposed to find this it seems like the money is going to have to come from somewhere else.

When someone is sick they should be able to see a doctor. It seems silly that this costs a nation of 45 million uninsured people over a trillion dollars. Aren't we supposed to be smarter than this?




They had an article in the Union Tribune just yesterday or Friday about younger people not signing up due to lack of funds.

I don't normally cut-n-paste but here are the first couple paragraphs of that article:

Quote:

Tending bar three days a week, with student loans still on the books, health insurance has not been a financial possibility for Promise Monroe of San Diego. And after checking prices on the state’s new health insurance exchange, she said, nothing has changed.

Even though government subsidies would reduce her monthly premium for a “sliver” exchange plan from $246 to $150, it will still be cheaper to pay the government’s fine, $95 or 1 percent of income.

Though she said she generally supports Obamacare’s goal of affordable care for all, Monroe said that she will keep going to local clinics for care when she needs in and just pay the fine.

“I don’t like sitting in a clinic. I would rather go to a doctor’s office, but that’s a luxury I can’t afford at this point,” Monroe said.




Clicky>>>>> SD Union Tribune: Young are seen as key to Obamacare

The $150/month is a great deal for her, but that's irrelevant in her case when considering the fact she still doesn't have it. She's making a decision, and the basis of that decision is wholly unrelated to her politics or her compassion for her fellow man. Indeed, she's making this decision is spite of her politics.




for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for. this is true before "Obamacare" and it will be true after. everyone in my peer group who doesn't have insurance paid for by their employer has made the same choice. if this plan hinges on American twenty somethings deciding to make a collective major lifestyle change, it's doomed to fail.



let's simplify that last statement just a little bit:

if any f*cking thing hinges on American twenty somethings deciding to make a collective major lifestyle change, it's doomed to fail.

now turn down that crap you call music, and get off my lawn

cowabunga
rg




wwII ??
Posted By: JEwing

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 08:03 PM

Quote:

I lived longer elsewhere than I've lived in Yugoslavia.

We can't choose where we're born but we can choose to be dumb cvunts.

But by all means keep believing that I, myself, designed the Yugo.

By that logic I'm also as smart as Tesla, since we come from the same gene pool.




I know fecal knows photography and film, a legal Slovenian immigrant that’s painting a bright impressive picture on this blank canvas called USA. Which is why I was so troubled when he started calling me a “parasite” when he found out I was an Insurance agent. All those years of training and all those hours spent in front of my clients discussing affordable ways to protect them from loss and now I’m a parasite?
Then I read that progressives everywhere were calling insurance agents parasites in the run-up months before the AHCA was enacted. I guess the word “niggers” was already taken so parasite was seen as a politically correct way to degrade the people that they had deemed unnecessary and should be eliminated from the system. Replaced in fact by the website (Healthcare.gov).

Hey one million professional, licensed, trained and trusted “parasites” would have enrolled 10 million citizens in the first 2 months of open enrollment even without the website. However as it stands there’s a million of us parasites sitting in the shadows waiting for this to play out.

The insurance does not go into force for months, not one claim has been submitted. How will it work is still a mystery but I know insurance and there’s going to be some very hard years ahead for our citizens .
Posted By: galleon

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 08:49 PM

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:11 PM

Quote:

I guess the word “niggers” was already taken so parasite was seen as a politically correct way to degrade the people that they had deemed unnecessary and should be eliminated from the system.




let's all play a sad song for the poor insurance agents, the real victims here.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:36 PM

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????
Posted By: sirfun

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????




dont laugh

https://www.google.com/search?q=food+ind...ustry+subsidies
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 09:59 PM



Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.



Unfortunately you have the only pre-existing condition that's not covered by Obamacare but I do believe that you can cheaply get that stick taken outta' your ass in TJ at the Clinica Proctologica by a small handed gentleman by the name of Juan (say Hwann).
Tell him Dick Cheney jr sent ya'!
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto




Unfortunately even with Monsanto we cannot feed the current population on this planet.

Take Monsanto out of the equation and it only gets worse.

We have passed the point of no return.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto




Unfortunately even with Monsanto we cannot feed the current population on this planet.

Take Monsanto out of the equation and it only gets worse.

We have passed the point of no return.




Does your grandaddy grow mansanto apples?
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto




Unfortunately even with Monsanto we cannot feed the current population on this planet.

Take Monsanto out of the equation and it only gets worse.

We have passed the point of no return.




Does your grandaddy grow mansanto apples?




No, he grows them organically and sells them to rich, stuck
up little white boys in LA for bocoup bucks.

Posted By: galleon

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:30 PM

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.



Unfortunately you have the only pre-existing condition that's not covered by Obamacare but I do believe that you can cheaply get that stick taken outta' your ass in TJ at the Clinica Proctologica by a small handed gentleman by the name of Juan (say Hwann).
Tell him Dick Cheney jr sent ya'!




yep, worst on the site.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.



Unfortunately you have the only pre-existing condition that's not covered by Obamacare but I do believe that you can cheaply get that stick taken outta' your ass in TJ at the Clinica Proctologica by a small handed gentleman by the name of Juan (say Hwann).
Tell him Dick Cheney jr sent ya'!




yep, worst on the site.



Oh for fcuks sake dude, if your pussy hurts that much I suggest you make an appointment with your gyno.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.



Unfortunately you have the only pre-existing condition that's not covered by Obamacare but I do believe that you can cheaply get that stick taken outta' your ass in TJ at the Clinica Proctologica by a small handed gentleman by the name of Juan (say Hwann).
Tell him Dick Cheney jr sent ya'!




yep, worst on the site.



Oh for fcuks sake dude, if your pussy hurts that much I suggest you make an appointment with your gyno.




I never said you were offending me. I come here for entertainment, your posts are groan worthy. you are the "honey boo-boo" of the er-bb. that is why you are the worst poster.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.




+1

I was in my mid-20's (my 25th birthday to be exact) when I learned the hard way that I was no longer invincible like I previously thought I was and ended up with a $75k ICU visit. My union health benefits kicked in just 3 months earlier. Lesson learned. I will not live another day without health insurance.

Nobody needs it until the unexpected happens. If you got beer money you got health insurance money.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto




Unfortunately even with Monsanto we cannot feed the current population on this planet.

Take Monsanto out of the equation and it only gets worse.

We have passed the point of no return.




Does your grandaddy grow mansanto apples?




No, he grows them organically and sells them to rich, stuck
up little white boys in LA for bocoup bucks.






Smart guy. You must've inherited the stupid gene from the other side of the family.
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 10:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????


Monsanto




Unfortunately even with Monsanto we cannot feed the current population on this planet.

Take Monsanto out of the equation and it only gets worse.

We have passed the point of no return.




Does your grandaddy grow mansanto apples?




No, he grows them organically and sells them to rich, stuck
up little white boys in LA for bocoup bucks.






Smart guy. You must've inherited the stupid gene from the other side of the family.




You're still living and working in LA.

Plus you're short.

Don't preach to me about bad genes.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 11:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Two of the three have healthcare as a prerequisite.



You will die without food, will someone please explain to me why we don't nationalize the food industry?




EBT????



I'm pretty sure that you can only buy cigarettes and 40oz Colt 45's with those.....the Colt 45's will probably sustain a brotha' for awhile though.




you are the worst poster on this site.



Unfortunately you have the only pre-existing condition that's not covered by Obamacare but I do believe that you can cheaply get that stick taken outta' your ass in TJ at the Clinica Proctologica by a small handed gentleman by the name of Juan (say Hwann).
Tell him Dick Cheney jr sent ya'!




yep, worst on the site.



Oh for fcuks sake dude, if your pussy hurts that much I suggest you make an appointment with your gyno.




I never said you were offending me. I come here for entertainment, your posts are groan worthy. you are the "honey boo-boo" of the er-bb. that is why you are the worst poster.



I didn't imply that you were offended, I asserted that you obviously have a stick up your ass and some accompanying pussy pain.

I'd offer to help you with the pain in your pussy but I'm only good at rubbing women's pussies + I only work for cash and blowjobs.
Posted By: stptchnstf

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/03/13 11:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.




+1

I was in my mid-20's (my 25th birthday to be exact) when I learned the hard way that I was no longer invincible like I previously thought I was and ended up with a $75k ICU visit. My union health benefits kicked in just 3 months earlier. Lesson learned. I will not live another day without health insurance.

Nobody needs it until the unexpected happens. If you got beer money you got health insurance money.




you're right, i should. but i don't, stubbornly, because i find the whole healthcare system untrustworthy. calculated risk which probably won't remain into my thirties.
Posted By: Steak

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:34 AM



Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.



You're trippin.

When I worked freelance I went without it. That's why we have bankruptcy.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.



You're trippin.

When I worked freelance I went without it. That's why we have bankruptcy.


that strategy only makes sense if you have nothing to lose. for the rest of us, health insurance has evolved into asset protection - not gonna cover every ache and pain but there to kick in the event of something major-to-catastrophic, thereby sheltering your major assets like house, portfolios, retirement accounts etc.,
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I lived longer elsewhere than I've lived in Yugoslavia.

We can't choose where we're born but we can choose to be dumb cvunts.

But by all means keep believing that I, myself, designed the Yugo.

By that logic I'm also as smart as Tesla, since we come from the same gene pool.




I know fecal knows photography and film, a legal Slovenian immigrant that’s painting a bright impressive picture on this blank canvas called USA. Which is why I was so troubled when he started calling me a “parasite” when he found out I was an Insurance agent. All those years of training and all those hours spent in front of my clients discussing affordable ways to protect them from loss and now I’m a parasite?
Then I read that progressives everywhere were calling insurance agents parasites in the run-up months before the AHCA was enacted. I guess the word “niggers” was already taken so parasite was seen as a politically correct way to degrade the people that they had deemed unnecessary and should be eliminated from the system. Replaced in fact by the website (Healthcare.gov).

Hey one million professional, licensed, trained and trusted “parasites” would have enrolled 10 million citizens in the first 2 months of open enrollment even without the website. However as it stands there’s a million of us parasites sitting in the shadows waiting for this to play out.

The insurance does not go into force for months, not one claim has been submitted. How will it work is still a mystery but I know insurance and there’s going to be some very hard years ahead for our citizens .




Great, another racist pig shows up to the party.

Listen, I don't care how many hours of training it took, what you do perpetuates the problem, it doesn't help anyone.

The reason I called you a parasite is because what you do, a health insurance broker, is exactly that. You are not producing anything. You are not providing health care. You are not contributing to better care nor reducing the cost. You are making money from the scheme. You are one of the health insurance freeloaders, the fat that needs to be trimmed. Your job is one of those things that makes the health insurance scam so vile. You are helping the insurance companies, not the people, stop deluding yourself. If you want to help people, you should have supported the single payer system instead of using every opportunity to slam Obamacare and everything associated with it.

Sorry that you feel offended by ACA and your president. If you want to keep thinking that it's this immigrant who caused it all, go ahead, I'll take the credit.

The fact is, American people voted on it and you lost. Just deal with it and figure out how to make money some other way. Become a navigator or something. Live the American dream.
Posted By: 23rdstMB

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 04:20 AM

Quote:

...You are not producing anything. You are not providing health care. You are not contributing to better care nor reducing the cost. You are making money from the scheme. You are one of the health insurance freeloaders, the fat that needs to be trimmed. Your job is one of those things that makes the health insurance scam so vile. You are helping the insurance companies, not the people....





Wow- you've described the Federal Government to a tee!
Posted By: subway

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 11:29 AM

apparently all of our deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket maximums are going up, plan choices cut from several options to one option, and we'll be paying more out of each paycheck for the coverage. I'll know more after my 2 PM "enrollment information" session.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 11:38 AM

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 11:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.

Health insurance is up there with rent and groceries. I paid the 3 figures while making about a grand a month total while getting a graduate degree in oceanography.



You're trippin.

When I worked freelance I went without it. That's why we have bankruptcy.


that strategy only makes sense if you have nothing to lose. for the rest of us, health insurance has evolved into asset protection - not gonna cover every ache and pain but there to kick in the event of something major-to-catastrophic, thereby sheltering your major assets like house, portfolios, retirement accounts etc.,



And Galleon is in his 20s just out of college- unless he's the heir to a bunch of assets that means he has nothing to lose and insurance is a waste of money IMO

Hell, even if you have insurance you can still lose all your precious assets if something really bad happens.
Posted By: ratfink

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.




National security...the original US insurance plan
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:06 PM

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.



Methinks $72 billion could be used on a lot more useful things, especially when the Navy has a surplus of perfectly good ships.

Stupid military.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.



Methinks $72 billion could be used on a lot more useful things, especially when the Navy has a surplus of perfectly good ships.

Stupid military.




would you rather be saying that in german, japanese or maybe russian?

maybe that needs to be updated to something like
would you rather be saying that in farsi or afgani?
no?
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.



Methinks $72 billion could be used on a lot more useful things, especially when the Navy has a surplus of perfectly good ships.

Stupid military.




would you rather be saying that in german, japanese or maybe russian?

maybe that needs to be updated to something like
would you rather be saying that in farsi or afgani?
no?
cowabunga
rg



I see what you're doing there...

BUT

We could eliminate a whole branch or two of the armed forces and still be fine.

Posted By: DramaDairy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:44 PM

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.





In ancient societies, the warriors received the lion's share of goodies (food, p*ssy, whatever), so they could go out and reap the goodies (food, p*ssy, whatever) for the King, or Emperor, or whoever.

Same as it ever was re: pumping resources into weaponery, with the rest of us are just along for the ride, picking up whatever crumbs we can.


autoprax-out!
Posted By: DramaDairy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.



Methinks $72 billion could be used on a lot more useful things, especially when the Navy has a surplus of perfectly good ships.

Stupid military.




would you rather be saying that in german, japanese or maybe russian?

maybe that needs to be updated to something like
would you rather be saying that in farsi or afgani?
no?
cowabunga
rg




It's safe to say that the Japanese, Germans, and Russians (and any other *opponent* of the US) seem to have, in the long run, won their various wars.
Posted By: Pissbiscuit

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Because this plan was invented by insurance companies for insurance companies




This statement is too stupid to ignore.




The author of the bill and the single biggest recipient of health insurer congressional campaign contributions are the same person.
The Health Insurers have gangraped the S&P 500 since Obamacare was passed.

I am sure there's a nickel of tax the insurers don't want along with IRS-enforced 100% demand for their goods/services, but acting like this bill is anything other than a Heritage-skeeted baby Jesus for the insurers has no basis in reality.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:54 PM

Quote:

acting like this bill is anything other than a Heritage-skeeted baby Jesus for the insurers has no basis in reality.




Oh man, those extreme right wing leftists just will not quit will they?
Posted By: super_aloha

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 12:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:


for the anecdotal record, i'm in my mid twenties, and i don't even consider getting health insurance. i can't afford another three figure monthy bill, especially not for something that i get nothing in return for.




For the official record, if you surf and you're making this statement, you're a f&ck1ng moron.






Ppl who love to surf male all kinds of sacrifices so that
they can surf more. No health insurance, no steady GFs,
no steady employment, etc. Are you still telling anybody
unfortunate enough to be listening that you are a surfer?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:25 PM

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.




Yup, amazing. And that's just the tip.
Posted By: DramaDairy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.




Yup, amazing. And that's just the tip.




Posted By: bloomies

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

...You are not producing anything. You are not providing health care. You are not contributing to better care nor reducing the cost. You are making money from the scheme. You are one of the health insurance freeloaders, the fat that needs to be trimmed. Your job is one of those things that makes the health insurance scam so vile. You are helping the insurance companies, not the people....





Wow- you've described the Federal Government to a tee!





Only in the Libtardian fantasy world, where Somalia is the Shining Light On The Hill.

Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did you guys see our new 1.8 billion dollar navy ships?

We are going to build 40 of them.

It's weird how stuff gets disconnected.




Yup, amazing. And that's just the tip.




<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DEMo-ZxG7vM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




Look at it as a government jobs/economy stimulus package. Like the Green Industry thing he did.

Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:37 PM

Oh and so far Obama care helped my oldest child by allowing her to remain on our policy and it also helped a family member that was un-insurable due to pre existing conditions get coverage. Call me skeptically hopeful.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:38 PM

I was going to go for the old iceberg tip but then I thought I leave it open to interpretation. It works both ways.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:42 PM

Quote:

Oh and so far Obama care helped my oldest child by allowing her to remain on our policy and it also helped a family member that was un-insurable due to pre existing conditions get coverage. Call me skeptically hopeful.






I'm so proud I was able to start the healthcare revolution by calling JEwing a parasite. You are welcome.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Oh and so far Obama care helped my oldest child by allowing her to remain on our policy and it also helped a family member that was un-insurable due to pre existing conditions get coverage. Call me skeptically hopeful.






I'm so proud I was able to start the healthcare revolution by calling JEwing a parasite. You are welcome.




Uh huh.

And I made the sun come up this morning.

We're even.

Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 01:56 PM

My wife, as a teacher, has gubmint insurance. She added me to her policy. The closest clinic is in Tecpan, about 4 hours south of here. We pay out of pocket. The good news is my son in law is a Dentist and his brother is a MD. I bought them both a surfboard. I'm covered.
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:01 PM

Quote:

My wife, as a teacher, has gubmint insurance. She added me to her policy. The closest clinic is in Tecpan, about 4 hours south of here. We pay out of pocket. The good news is my son in law is a Dentist and his brother is a MD. I bought them both a surfboard. I'm covered.


Better than a chicken!!
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:04 PM

Quote:

I'm so proud I was able to start the healthcare revolution...



How long do you expect to be trowling lipstick on to this pig?
Posted By: test_article

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 02:09 PM

Medicaid availability has historically been limited pretty much to old folks, the disabled and the children of po' folk. This was accomplished by requiring not only income limits, but a near complete absence of assets like a home, car, flush bank account, etc. for all of the enrolled. Come 01JAN14, any members of a household making less than 133% poverty level will be eligible and they will be able to hang on to some assets.

Public hospitals (in CA & TX, at least) will continue to be funded by local, state and federal money augmented by what they can scrounge from their clientele. Public hospitals have been going out of business at a fairly high rate. Non-profit hospitals also provide a good deal of uncompensated care.

For-profit hospitals tend to be totally mercenary, prescribing questionable staff visits, tests and procedures, claiming to err on the side of caution. Beware: For-profit hospitals on your preferred provider organization (PPO) list will contract out for their emergency room physicians to a non-PPO so their bottom line is not hampered by allowable plan prices. You get to cover those costs out-of-pocket.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Q and A time - 11/04/13 02:27 PM

Question: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $?

Answer: Am insured with my work so Affordable Care Act, aka Obama Care, has no impact on me and my family.

Would have preferred a single payer system than what the Affordable Care Act provides.

And death panels.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 02:34 PM

Quote:



Would have preferred a single payer system than what the Affordable Care Act provides.

And death panels.






Luckily, the death panels are the thing of the past thanks to the end of the Pre-Existing Condition insurance scam.

JEwing is all bummed about that.
Posted By: Pissbiscuit

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 03:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

acting like this bill is anything other than a Heritage-skeeted baby Jesus for the insurers has no basis in reality.




Oh man, those extreme right wing leftists just will not quit will they?




I'm confused.

Are you denying that this bill heavily plagiarizes Heritage circa early/mid90s, or are you denying that this bill has been a great boon to health insurers?
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 03:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Would have preferred a single payer system than what the Affordable Care Act provides.

And death panels.






Luckily, the death panels are the thing of the past thanks to the end of the Pre-Existing Condition insurance scam.

JEwing is all bummed about that.




Isn't there a ton of Death Panel Navigator positions available? Easy fit and readily transferable skill set.........
Posted By: _Pico

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 03:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Would have preferred a single payer system than what the Affordable Care Act provides.

And death panels.






Luckily, the death panels are the thing of the past thanks to the end of the Pre-Existing Condition insurance scam.

JEwing is all bummed about that.




Isn't there a ton of Death Panel Navigator positions available? Easy fit and readily transferable skill set.........




I think you are confusing Death Panel with Drone Pilot
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 04:06 PM

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.

Unless they have the pre-existing condition that completely shut them out of healthcare plans altogether.

"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 04:13 PM

is the interstate highway maintenance going on helping or hurting you?

is the public education system helping or hurting you?

is social security helping or hurting you?

is medicare helping or hurting you?

you know, sometimes, it's not about you
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 04:31 PM

Quote:



"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.




What's the difference? Most people couldn't afford what insurance people were asking for pre-existing condition coverage. So financial issue becomes a not covered issue.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 04:52 PM

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.

Unless they have the pre-existing condition that completely shut them out of healthcare plans altogether.

"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.




You're right about this but I think it's a little premature to make such an assessment. Way too many factors at play. As you said partisan political views and cost will get you the kneejerk response if it's helping or hurting people. But time will only really tell. While the addition of a $100+ bill to the budget of someone with a minimal income who previously didn't have health insurance is surely going to sting at first and they'll likely argue that the cost is hurting them. But a year or two down the line when sh!t happens and they have a serious accident or get diagnosed with a chronic disease or ailment that requires long term treatment they'll be singing a different tune. Of course there's plenty who will remain healthy and never utilize the coverage and will fret over the money they spent on it. Sure it sucks. I've probably spent well over $25k in auto insurance (which I'm required by law to have) since I was 16yrs old. I've made exactly one claim of $2700 in that time. I could claim that this hurt me. Though, I got used to having it as part of my monthly budget over the years and with autopayments I now don't even notice when I pay it.

If you ask me I think its pretty premature to ask such a question with so many factors at play.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:



"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.




What's the difference? Most people couldn't afford what insurance people were asking for pre-existing condition coverage. So financial issue becomes a not covered issue.




The logic in acknowledging that costs are a factor of distribution is impeccable (and I completely agree with it). What is not so immaculate is the failure to recognize that it's a street that can have two directions of travel, possibly with enequal amounts of traffic going in these opposing directions.

This brings us full circle back to the effects of the ACA on people who aren't fighting the pre-existing condition problem. If a $700.month payer decides they can't afford the 40% increase they could decide to make the U-turn and go the other way, spending that $700/month on other goods/services.

So in that event - however common it is - not only does the system not get the $1200/month it assessed this subscriber, they also don't get the $700/month they were getting.

You'll say most people won't choose to do that and instead will just somehow find the extra $500/month elsewhere in their monthly budgets - and maybe you're right.
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 05:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

acting like this bill is anything other than a Heritage-skeeted baby Jesus for the insurers has no basis in reality.




Oh man, those extreme right wing leftists just will not quit will they?




I'm confused.

Are you denying that this bill heavily plagiarizes Heritage circa early/mid90s, or are you denying that this bill has been a great boon to health insurers?



You're guilty of getting someone elses opinion of someone elses opinion.

If you want to know what the Heritage position is- fcuking go to their fcuking website fcuking retard.

There's an old Conservatard saying; the more government tries to regulate business, the more business tries to regulate government.

Libtardian idiots (yeah, I know it's a double negative) either never seem to see this or their fascist impulses* embrace it.

*Re: President "smartest guy in the room" exempting his pet businesses from this "settled law".
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 05:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.

Unless they have the pre-existing condition that completely shut them out of healthcare plans altogether.

"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.




You're right about this but I think it's a little premature to make such an assessment. Way too many factors at play. As you said partisan political views and cost will get you the kneejerk response if it's helping or hurting people. But time will only really tell. While the addition of a $100+ bill to the budget of someone with a minimal income who previously didn't have health insurance is surely going to sting at first and they'll likely argue that the cost is hurting them. But a year or two down the line when sh!t happens and they have a serious accident or get diagnosed with a chronic disease or ailment that requires long term treatment they'll be singing a different tune. Of course there's plenty who will remain healthy and never utilize the coverage and will fret over the money they spent on it. Sure it sucks. I've probably spent well over $25k in auto insurance (which I'm required by law to have) since I was 16yrs old. I've made exactly one claim of $2700 in that time. I could claim that this hurt me. Though, I got used to having it as part of my monthly budget over the years and with autopayments I now don't even notice when I pay it.

If you ask me I think its pretty premature to ask such a question with so many factors at play.




I'm with you 100% in everything you said above, right up until you opine that it's too early to even ask the question. I completely agree that it's too soon to have an answer and that the landscape 2 years from now may very well look a lot different than it does now. But I don't think it's too soon to ask the question or to consider the ramifications for both possibilities.

Only one of those two guesses will be significantly incorrect, right?

I predict that if average costs go down or remain stable or the increases are limited to !10% then most everyone will be pretty damn happy except the idealogues on the right. I know I will be.

But in addition to being shortsighted the mob is also fickle. So (IMO) bigger increases won't be well received, especially as the opposition makes it the cornerstone for their next campaign cycle.

Supporters are reveling in the ostensible prohibition of denial of coverage but my guess is that by 2016 most rate payers won't be measuring the success in terms of human compassion and enlightenment.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 05:27 PM

Quote:

Supporters are reveling in the ostensible prohibition of denial of coverage but my guess is that by 2016 most rate payers won't be measuring the success in terms of human compassion and enlightenment.




By then people would have realized that the single payer system is the way to go. Except Ted Cruise will be the president and we will go back to stitching our own wounds.

Out of interest, did you know that last week, amidst yet another historic record breaking day for Wall Street, the health care sector was at the very top?

There's still a lot of money to be made in healthcare and as long as people are stupid enough to think that shelling out that kind of cash to private sector to take care of their health is going to give them better care or is a must because of their pre-existing condition and that single payer system equals socialism, well......
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 05:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Supporters are reveling in the ostensible prohibition of denial of coverage but my guess is that by 2016 most rate payers won't be measuring the success in terms of human compassion and enlightenment.




By then people would have realized that the single payer system is the way to go. Except Ted Cruise will be the president and we will go back to stitching our own wounds.

Out of interest, did you know that last week, amidst yet another historic record breaking day for Wall Street, the health care sector was at the very top?

There's still a lot of money to be made in healthcare and as long as people are stupid enough to think that shelling out that kind of cash to private sector to take care of their health is going to give them better care or is a must because of their pre-existing condition and that single payer system equals socialism, well......




Tail wags the dog, right? Truthiness sometimes takes a back seat to perception.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 05:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.

Unless they have the pre-existing condition that completely shut them out of healthcare plans altogether.

"Pre-existing" that (only) made their coverage more expensive is really a financial issue, not a covered-v-not covered issue.




You're right about this but I think it's a little premature to make such an assessment. Way too many factors at play. As you said partisan political views and cost will get you the kneejerk response if it's helping or hurting people. But time will only really tell. While the addition of a $100+ bill to the budget of someone with a minimal income who previously didn't have health insurance is surely going to sting at first and they'll likely argue that the cost is hurting them. But a year or two down the line when sh!t happens and they have a serious accident or get diagnosed with a chronic disease or ailment that requires long term treatment they'll be singing a different tune. Of course there's plenty who will remain healthy and never utilize the coverage and will fret over the money they spent on it. Sure it sucks. I've probably spent well over $25k in auto insurance (which I'm required by law to have) since I was 16yrs old. I've made exactly one claim of $2700 in that time. I could claim that this hurt me. Though, I got used to having it as part of my monthly budget over the years and with autopayments I now don't even notice when I pay it.

If you ask me I think its pretty premature to ask such a question with so many factors at play.




I'm with you 100% in everything you said above, right up until you opine that it's too early to even ask the question. I completely agree that it's too soon to have an answer and that the landscape 2 years from now may very well look a lot different than it does now. But I don't think it's too soon to ask the question or to consider the ramifications for both possibilities.

Only one of those two guesses will be significantly incorrect, right?

I predict that if average costs go down or remain stable or the increases are limited to !10% then most everyone will be pretty damn happy except the idealogues on the right. I know I will be.






So when you say average cost, I'm guessing you mean the cost of the monthly premium, correct? Assuming so, that cost differential is going to be subsidized by the gov't right? Setting aside ideological arguments and moral grandstanding - where are we going to find the money to pay for these additional costs?

On a personal level, sure, I like the idea of paying less for a major expense. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and we've been pretending there is for over a decade now. Can someone help me understand how the math works here
Posted By: Pissbiscuit

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 05:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

acting like this bill is anything other than a Heritage-skeeted baby Jesus for the insurers has no basis in reality.




Oh man, those extreme right wing leftists just will not quit will they?




I'm confused.

Are you denying that this bill heavily plagiarizes Heritage circa early/mid90s, or are you denying that this bill has been a great boon to health insurers?



You're guilty of getting someone elses opinion of someone elses opinion.

If you want to know what the Heritage position is- fcuking go to their fcuking website fcuking retard.

There's an old Conservatard saying; the more government tries to regulate business, the more business tries to regulate government.

Libtardian idiots (yeah, I know it's a double negative) either never seem to see this or their fascist impulses* embrace it.

*Re: President "smartest guy in the room" exempting his pet businesses from this "settled law".




Consulting heritage published work:

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

We got universal coverage, cost controls, an individual mandate, and peasant subsidies.

What is Obamacare, if not universal coverage, cost controls, an individual mandate, and subsidies?

I am sure Heritage is as well-supplied with reasons ObamaCare isn't a Heritage idea as Romney was that ObamaCare isn't a Romney policy in the state he used to govern.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 05:57 PM

Yeah, monthly premiums is what I was referring to.

It's like when people buy cars. By the time the sales team at the dealership runs their complete sales program on them, most buyers are buying based on the payment they think they can afford, not the actual cost of the vehicle. Same with houses. The price itself may be abstract but the payments are very real.

As for the math and who pays I don't know because I am in no way conversant on this stuff.
Posted By: hilldo

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:10 PM

My plan went up 10% next month even though I chose not to change to the AHA compliant plan. However, it states that it will not increase in premium for the next year.:o

Had I chosen the AHA compliant plan renewal it would have DOUBLED in cost while offering little more in services beyond TBI coverage, mental health benefits, and cancer screenings that I would not yet qualify for due to age, plus female coverage needs like HPV testing and pregnanacy coverage.

My plan did state that after December 31, 2014 I would be forced into an AHA compliant plan.

I am on a Humana Individua self-employed PPO by the way (which does not cover much before the $5k deductible per person).

My insurance needs are for the weighed risk of some catastrophic illness for me or my kids.

I am betting $370 month that we might get sick down the road.

I should probably put that on 17 on the roulette table every month the put the winnings in an HSA or IRA.

It would be more beneficial and make more sense.

Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:11 PM

From the actual horses mouth.

"For the record, we think that the law’s federal mandate is unconstitutional. Our legal center, led by former attorney general Edwin Meese III, notes that Congress has no authority to force an American to buy any good or service merely as a requirement of being alive.

Yes, in the early 1990s, we, along with other prominent conservative economists, supported the idea of such a mandate. It seemed the only way to solve the “free-rider” problem, in which individuals can, under federal law, walk into any hospital emergency room nationwide and rack up big bills at taxpayer expense.

Our research in the ensuing two decades has led us to realize our initial idea was operationally ineffective and legally defective. Well before Obama was elected, we dropped it. In the spring 2008 edition of the Harvard Health Policy Review, I advanced far better alternatives to the individual mandate to expand coverage, relying on positive tax incentives and other mechanisms to facilitate enrollment in private health insurance. This is what researchers and fact-based policymakers do when they discover new facts or conduct deeper analysis."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/18/AR2010041802727.html
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:16 PM

Best option: single payer
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:20 PM

well, given that you recently swore off craft beer I think the majority here will agree that your priorities and decision making may be dodgy
Posted By: hilldo

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 06:22 PM

Quote:

Can someone help me understand how the math works here




It does not add up.

And math does not lie.

However, it doesn't matter though because no one (in government) cares about cost when it is not their own money being spent (just look at the no-bid contract for the AHA website, for instance).
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:23 PM

I read somewhere that this year is about individual plans - involving the minority; but next year will involve the employer plans. Can anyone here correct, clarify, or expand on that?
Posted By: Pissbiscuit

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/04/13 06:28 PM

Quote:

From the actual horses mouth.

"For the record, we think that the law’s federal mandate is unconstitutional. Our legal center, led by former attorney general Edwin Meese III, notes that Congress has no authority to force an American to buy any good or service merely as a requirement of being alive.

Yes, in the early 1990s, we, along with other prominent conservative economists, supported the idea of such a mandate. It seemed the only way to solve the “free-rider” problem, in which individuals can, under federal law, walk into any hospital emergency room nationwide and rack up big bills at taxpayer expense.





So Heritage, myself, and you all agree that ObamaCare is HeritageCare circa 2013, except for the mandate, which is HeritageCare circa 1993, or 1989 as it were. Good to know. You'll note that what I cited was from the horse's mouth as well, just not since Operationg Disagree With Everything the Magic N***o Is Doing was launched.

You stand corrected. Apology accepted.

Quote:

This is what researchers and fact-based policymakers do when they discover new facts or conduct deeper analysis."





I can't wait to see what happens to tax revenue after earned income tax rates rose this last year!
My guess: we'll see what we saw after Clinton's tax hike in 1993, and the inverse of what we saw after the Reagan and W tax cuts: increased revenue from increased rates.

I do so look forward to the Jim DeMint-captained Heritage Foundation ship changing course and admitting that applying the Laffer Curve to earned income is the realm of revisionist tardlings!
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 06:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Can someone help me understand how the math works here




It does not add up.

And math does not lie.

However, it doesn't matter though because no one (in government) cares about cost when it is not their own money being spent (just look at the no-bid contract for the AHA website, for instance).




How do you reconcile the fact that the prices are going up because insurance companies want to keep their outrageous profits up and not because the evil government is trying to rip you off?

You should be loving the free market, healthy competition and lack of regulation. Obama practically gave insurance companies a free reign.

Insurance companies tailored AHCA so they can keep ripping you off. That's their trade off for having to cover pre-existing conditions.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 06:44 PM

Fecal, how does the math pencil out for you? Where will the additional money come from which the government will be paying? Bear in mind I'm NOT arguing for or against here, just trying to see what folks make of the numbers
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 06:46 PM

I thought one of the provisions of the ACA is that the insurance companies had to spend at least 85% of their revenues on care?
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 07:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Supporters are reveling in the ostensible prohibition of denial of coverage but my guess is that by 2016 most rate payers won't be measuring the success in terms of human compassion and enlightenment.




By then people would have realized that the single payer system is the way to go. Except Ted Cruise will be the president and we will go back to stitching our own wounds.

Out of interest, did you know that last week, amidst yet another historic record breaking day for Wall Street, the health care sector was at the very top?

There's still a lot of money to be made in healthcare and as long as people are stupid enough to think that shelling out that kind of cash to private sector to take care of their health is going to give them better care or is a must because of their pre-existing condition and that single payer system equals socialism, well......




Tail wags the dog, right? Truthiness sometimes takes a back seat to perception.




Speaking of which, I just saw an article saying a private foundation recently provided a $500k grant to basically lobby TV writers and producers to incorporate pro-ACA themes in their screenplays.

Quote:

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The health care overhaul might get a Hollywood rewrite.

The California Endowment, a private foundation that is spending millions to promote President Barack Obama's signature law, recently provided a $500,000 grant to ensure TV writers and producers have information about the Affordable Care Act that can be stitched into plot lines watched by millions.

The aim is to produce compelling prime-time narratives that encourage Americans to enroll, especially the young and healthy, Hispanics and other key demographic groups needed to make the overhaul a success.

"We know from research that when people watch entertainment television, even if they know it's fiction, they tend to believe that the factual stuff is actually factual," said Martin Kaplan of the University of Southern California's Norman Lear Center, which received the grant.

The public typically gets as much, if not more, information about current events from favorite TV programs as mainstream news outlets, Kaplan said, so "people learn from these shows."




AP Story: Hollywood targeted to give health care law a boost

We can make assumptions about where the cash came from but it's possible that the answer to that might not include the usual suspects.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 07:16 PM

Quote:

Fecal, how does the math pencil out for you? Where will the additional money come from which the government will be paying? Bear in mind I'm NOT arguing for or against here, just trying to see what folks make of the numbers




I have the math penciled out and I still can't figure out why does a 5 minute chat with a doctor cost $240 or why does a single aspirin cost $30 in the ER or why you need to pay $83,046 for a 3 hour hospital visit.

The prices are inflated based on the rates at which insurance companies will reimburse the hospital on a patient’s behalf.

It's a bloated system (scam) and it's not regulated properly.

As long as the system is optimized for profit making instead of health care, the prices will go up.

We still don't know how AHCA will work out, time will tell. Should have been single payer all the way..... if it was, we wouldn't be discussing this.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 07:43 PM

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..
Posted By: test_article

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 07:53 PM

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.




Right, it'll protect the life savings of a lot of parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters who've been concerned over loved ones who are so irresponsible as to forgo health insurance.
Posted By: bloomies

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 07:54 PM

Quote:

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..




Why do we need "a couple".....
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.




Right, it'll protect the life savings of a lot of parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters who've been concerned over loved ones who are so irresponsible as to forgo health insurance.




With respect, I think the make-family-happier angle is a stretch.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:13 PM

Quote:

Health Spending by Major Sources of Funds:
• Medicare: Medicare spending, which represented 21 percent of national health spending in 2011, grew 6.2 percent to $554.3 billion, an acceleration from growth of 4.3 percent in 2010.

Contributing to the increase in 2011 was faster growth in spending for skilled nursing facilities and physician’ services, as well as an increase in Medicare Advantage spending growth.

• Medicaid: Total Medicaid spending grew 2.5 percent in 2011 to $407.7 billion, a deceleration from 5.9-percent growth in 2010. This was partly due to slower growth in Medicaid enrollment of 3.2 percent in 2011 compared to 4.9 percent-growth in 2010. Federal Medicaid expenditures decreased 7.1 percent in 2011, while state Medicaid expenditures grew 22.2 percent—a result of the expiration of enhanced federal aid to states in June 2011.

• Private Health Insurance: In 2011, private health insurance premiums and benefits each increased 3.8 percent—accelerating from growth in 2010 of 3.4 percent and 2.7 percent, respectively. The net cost ratio for private health insurance – the difference between premiums and benefits as a share of premiums - remained unchanged from 2010 at 12.3 percent.

Private health insurance enrollment increased 0.5 percent in 2011 after declining each year 2008-2010. Even so, on a per enrollee basis, private health insurance benefits grew 3.2 percent in 2011, decelerating from growth of 4.6 percent in 2010, and was partly a result of additional enrollees aged twenty-six and under who gained coverage under the Affordable Care Act.

• Out-of-Pocket: Out-of-pocket spending grew 2.8 percent in 2011 to $307.7 billion, an acceleration from growth of 2.1 percent in 2010 that reflects higher cost-sharing and increased enrollment in consumer-directed health plans.




CMS.Gov 2011 National Health Expenditures Highlights

CMS.Gov = Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:22 PM

Quote:

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..




Um no, that system doesn't apply to most people. You either have to be homeless or old. And even then you are not completely covered.

The idea is that everybody pays into a single fund and everybody is covered. And it's a non-profit.
Very easy to make it self-paying that way.

But oh no, we can't have that.
Posted By: test_article

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The question "Is it helping you or hurting you?" can be answered from a political perspective but I think a lot of people are going to answer it from a personal finance perspective.




Right, it'll protect the life savings of a lot of parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters who've been concerned over loved ones who are so irresponsible as to forgo health insurance.




With respect, I think the make-family-happier angle is a stretch.




I tried to qualify it by limiting it to those families composed of 'loved ones'. Maybe that's another thread.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..




Um no, that system doesn't apply to most people. You either have to be homeless or old. And even then you are not completely covered.

The idea is that everybody pays into a single fund and everybody is covered. And it's a non-profit.
Very easy to make it self-paying that way.

But oh no, we can't have that.



THATS SOSUHLISM!
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..




Um no, that system doesn't apply to most people. You either have to be homeless or old. And even then you are not completely covered.

The idea is that everybody pays into a single fund and everybody is covered. And it's a non-profit.
Very easy to make it self-paying that way.

But oh no, we can't have that.




Well, for sure it would have been more expedient to diverge from our current path in 1948 than in 2013.

The UK socialists had a lot going for them as they exited WWII; not so much so in the U.S.
Posted By: hilldo

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Can someone help me understand how the math works here




It does not add up.

And math does not lie.

However, it doesn't matter though because no one (in government) cares about cost when it is not their own money being spent (just look at the no-bid contract for the AHA website, for instance).




How do you reconcile the fact that the prices are going up because insurance companies want to keep their outrageous profits up and not because the evil government is trying to rip you off?

You should be loving the free market, healthy competition and lack of regulation. Obama practically gave insurance companies a free reign.

Insurance companies tailored AHCA so they can keep ripping you off. That's their trade off for having to cover pre-existing conditions.




Make no mistake the government, their lobbyists, attorneys, insurance companies, pharmaceutical, etc will all profit from this bullshit scenario.

We will pay more out of our pocket but those aligned with the program will either be exempt or will profit greatly from the "takeover".

It's not a problem for big money. It is another hosing of the middle class.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We have a couple of existing single payer system in the U.S..




Um no, that system doesn't apply to most people. You either have to be homeless or old. And even then you are not completely covered.

The idea is that everybody pays into a single fund and everybody is covered. And it's a non-profit.
Very easy to make it self-paying that way.

But oh no, we can't have that.




Well, for sure it would have been more expedient to diverge from our current path in 1948 than in 2013.

The UK socialists had a lot going for them as they exited WWII; not so much so in the U.S.




There's nothing socialist about the UK. It's a kingdom for God's sake, it's right there in it's name, right after UNITED.

They figured out how to make the health care pay for itself and be affordable, we didn't.... yet. AHCA is a half-assed step in the right direction but it's a step.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 08:59 PM

I was talking about the political environment in the UK coming out of WWII when they booted Churchill. Not the form of government, per se.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 09:08 PM

Well, yeah, that's true.
Maybe it's because the UK was almost brought to its knees while the US prospered by the end of WWII.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: Q and A time - 11/04/13 09:22 PM

That's one of the conclusions I came to. Not just the UK, but all of Europe and most of Asia. At that point AUS and Canada weren't actually industrialized per se.

Coulda shoulda woulda. The point remains that transitioning from where we are right now is a different situation than the manner in which most of these other nations did it, and could arguably require a different path or approach.
Posted By: JEwing

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 05:41 PM

Just though you might like to know that I got a letter from adobe notifying me that my computer had been hacked and my CC files had been compromised on or soon after I enrolled online with covered California back in the middle of September. Just a coincidence? Maybe but it's the first time in 12 years of using that service.
Posted By: R3W

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 06:16 PM

Quote:

Just though you might like to know that I got a letter from adobe notifying me that my computer had been hacked and my CC files had been compromised on or soon after I enrolled online with covered California back in the middle of September. Just a coincidence? Maybe but it's the first time in 12 years of using that service.





Yours and 38 million other adobe accounts.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 06:30 PM

Quote:

Just though you might like to know that I got a letter from adobe notifying me that my computer had been hacked and my CC files had been compromised on or soon after I enrolled online with covered California back in the middle of September. Just a coincidence? Maybe but it's the first time in 12 years of using that service.





Coincidence. You're one of 38 Million Adobe customers, as am I. I didn't signed up for anything health related and I got the same email. Adobe getting hacked was a big news story outside the world of Drudge Report...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/30/adobe-hack-38m-users-photoshop-acrobat

But keep looking for things to blame on Obamacare. Maybe climate change? Wait that's not real.

p.s. How bummed are you that I let Split's Obamacare thread stay in the main forum but moved yours to the Political forum?
Posted By: CharmingSophisticate

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

Coincidence. You're one of 38 Million Adobe customers, as am I. I didn't signed up for anything health related and I got the same email.



Not to mention, since only 34 people have been able to login to Obamacare.com it's impossible for that many Adobe accounts to have been hacked.
Posted By: JEwing

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 10:39 PM

Quote:

p.s. How bummed are you that I let Split's Obamacare thread stay in the main forum but moved yours to the Political forum?




quote
p.s. How bummed are you that I let Split's Obamacare thread stay in the main forum but moved yours to the Political forum?




I understand that you think you're the smartest guy in a room full of morons but you probably shouldn't make it so obvious. True it feels pretty good but don't forget this is Surfers message board so no matter how many "wins" you think you get the majority of the members will always know you're a poser and you can't change that. Regarding The political horseshyt which seems to be your bread and butter, well I've learned long ago that one just hitches his wagon to the status quo and lives with it. The most important thing being how to find time to continue my surfing related lifestyle while I try to figure it out.

I'm here to share my experiences, photos (many thousands of them), and add to my circle of surf minded acquaintances, you not being one of them.
Posted By: frvcvs

Re: Obama Care helping you or hurting you $? - 11/05/13 11:58 PM

Cool, I'm down with your photos when the horizon is straight.
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