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The Roberts Twonzer

Posted By: GWS

The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 03:00 PM







Sean Hayes on a White Diamond 3 with channels and a Twonzer setup.







[img]http://u.cubeupload.com/gwsfynn/DSC01812.jpg[/img]

[img]http://u.cubeupload.com/gwsfynn/IMG0566.png[/img]

[img]http://u.cubeupload.com/gwsfynn/IMG0565.png[/img]

Kellen Ellison surfing a new model, the Roberts Bro-Fish Twonzer

I'm still trying to come to grips with PhotoBucket attempting to extort money from me for third party hosting, so please forgive. You can click on the PNGs of Kellen surfing and get them to display I believe. I'm running out of patience trying to get them to display above.

This "Twonzer" setup has been years in the making. Robert and I have talked about this dozens of times. Rob rode a Bonzered Dream Machine that was my personal and was intrigued. Finally, he went for it. It's part Twinzer, part Bonzer, and the rear fin placement is part Mckee quad. He made a couple of them and turned a few team guys loose on them and the feedback from both the riders and observers has been super positive. Super fast, positive and loose.

Now if I can just get my FCS Bonzer fins back...

dancing
Posted By: ModAl

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 03:03 PM

Can you give us additional info on this board?
The usual, wave type, size range, ride characteristics, and how to size?
Thanks
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 03:04 PM

Bro-Fish is 5'4" X 20 3/8" X 2 1/2" X 30.25 ltr

Modified WD3 is 5'6 1/2" X 19 3/4 X 2 3/8" X 29.50 ltr
Posted By: jkb

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 05:07 PM

Wow! That twonzer looks tits!

Would love to give that a go.
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 05:29 PM

saw this on Robert's IG. His fin placement is interesting.

I tried this on a mini simmons with both sets of bonzer canards. felt a little too stiff (unheard of for a mini), so I took the first set of canards out and it felt much better.
Posted By: greysuit

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 05:36 PM

pic site not working for me banghead
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 05:46 PM

I've often considered the combo of twonzer+ toed-in channels, but never had the balls to go for it.

If the channel has any cant to it then adding a canted Future fin to that cant could have an effect.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 06:03 PM

I think I need the WD3 channels and Twonzer

HOLY F BALLS
Posted By: chrisp510

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 06:13 PM

fun looking board!
Love the outline and channels...
The main fins look really far off the rail.
Did they try the fins in multiple places before settling on that?
I would have put the mains out on the rail more and moved the canards forward a hair.
BUT, I am nobody. Certainly Roberts knows what he's doing... I'd love to pick his brain about fin placement.
Sweet looking board either way
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: greysuit
pic site not working for me banghead


Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. This is my first experience using this site. I'm having a few problems. Maybe try and hit the links and go to cube upload yourself?



Posted By: greysuit

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 06:27 PM

Found 'em on IG. Pretty sweet-looking. facelick
Posted By: Sharkbiscuit

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 06:32 PM

GWS,

erBB only lets you do what appears to be six images per post; everything else in your syntax and upload looks a-okay.

Stock photos of hind leg initated motions.
Posted By: Greg Griffin

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 07:17 PM








Yes, just go back and reply with a copy of your missing pics . wave2
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 07:43 PM

http://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2191819&page=1

cool twonzer pics on this thread
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 09:03 PM

My thinking on the layout is that it would probably work with even smaller runners. I was considering using a small keel instead of a high aspect fin for the mains.
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 11:38 PM

Originally Posted By: chrisp510
fun looking board!
Love the outline and channels...
The main fins look really far off the rail.
Did they try the fins in multiple places before settling on that?
I would have put the mains out on the rail more and moved the canards forward a hair.
BUT, I am nobody. Certainly Roberts knows what he's doing... I'd love to pick his brain about fin placement.
Sweet looking board either way


I had similar thoughts re the fin placement, however, the feedback from team riders on this particular placement has so far been overwhelmingly positive. I thought the rear fins were too far back, but apparently I was wrong.

Twonzer Photos
Posted By: jkb

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/13/17 11:55 PM

Yeah, but that guy would probably look better riding a thruster poke


I'm completely joking. That guy is tearing the snot out of those sub-par conditions. jam_on
Posted By: Greg Griffin

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 01:51 AM

Whats the up charge for these fins + channels ?

Now that I am in Florida I can make channels again .
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: jkb
Yeah, but that guy would probably look better riding a thruster poke


I'm completely joking. That guy is tearing the snot out of those sub-par conditions. jam_on


That guy went to UCSD the same year as me. Pro level
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 03:16 AM

Did anyone notice that Matt Biolos is looking for jobson?

One more shot of the board before it hit the water in the last photo! #robertstwonzer #wd3 #fourchannel #robertssurf #robertssurfboards #twinfinproject

A post shared by Roberts Surfboards (@roberts_surfboards) on

Posted By: silentbutdeadly

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 03:52 AM

Looks fun. Are the larger fins not parallel with the outer channels? Esplain? I'm just learning this stuff.
Posted By: SlicedFeet

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 04:28 AM

too much static here...wtf are you doing to us GWS?

Has GG finally sunk in to you all?...designing a board with a complementary fin theory.

Going the Switzerland route not ruffle too many feathers...FCS and Futures..

Plus a nod to the Campbells with the use of the Bonzer fin.

Another nod to Jobson’s Twinzer... Fish Tails...Bat Tails...skulls.

Channels..!!!!!!!!! please someone make the Hitler bunker meme parody with this board.

We have just crossed over into...The Twonzer Zone.

I Love it.....

And my claim to Twonzer Fame...I used to surf with Sean when we were maybe 13 yrs old or so in Carlsbad...at Surf Camp...:) He was better than us, he was the best at the camp, but we all used to charge for being that young and pushed each other. I still remember his William Dennis board. I was a better skater though smile fun memories and good years for waves.




Posted By: Clamsmasha

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 02:42 PM

Fuckme, that channel bottom number looks good!

I tried an octonzer a while back...went pretty good

https://www.instagram.com/p/1mv2YfMtHt/
Posted By: fredman

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 03:13 PM

That thing looks really good. What's the word on backside?
Is anyone using that rear fin option?
Posted By: 20W-50 and blood

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/14/17 11:23 PM

fugggg i want to try that even if only for the hell of it
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 02:35 PM

Ok, presently I'm past talking design specifics on the "Design Forum." It always gets ugly. I just don't have the patience for it anymore. I've got enough drama in my personal life, I don't need to create more over surfboards of all things.

The charge for the channels was reasonable IMHO. We will see if that holds. If tons of these things were ordered, I could see the glasser reassessing their rates. Robert has actually worked out a fairly easy way of shaping them in. And no, I'm not going to tell you all how.
Posted By: Fredtool

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 03:57 PM

Looks like an up dated Zinger, a board that was designed by Ace in San Diego when he was working for Mike Eaton. Ace builds some interesting boards.
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 04:07 PM

Rawson made a version in the 80's as well.

Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 04:37 PM

from the old thread I linked:
Originally Posted By: GWS
I don't know. If you check the properties it will lead you back to an open photobucket account. The logo looks like a take-off of one we did here poking fun at CI. I assume that's a glassing lam down at the tail, but when I zoom in I lose resolution. I can't read it. Eaton has been doing the Zinger for some time.



But all the ones I've seen have been funboards.

I would like to give it a try. Seems like with boxes in all positions you could sub in either of the Bonzer 5 fins. Which would you leave you screwed if you felt like you needed that Bonzer3 size lead fins, but like I said, that seems like a lot of fin.


Originally Posted By: GWS
I've never ridden them. Hate the way they look. IMHO, it just cheapens the look of the board. Which means jack-$hit if it surfs well, but whatever. Malcolm doesn't like them. For me that says it all. I don't argue with him on things Bonzer. Or Twinzer or Twonzer or ...

shrug


stoked to see Roberts messing around w/ this and his team riders diggin them

and thanks for sharing GWS jam_on
Posted By: chrisp510

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
from the old thread I linked:
Originally Posted By: GWS
I don't know. If you check the properties it will lead you back to an open photobucket account. The logo looks like a take-off of one we did here poking fun at CI. I assume that's a glassing lam down at the tail, but when I zoom in I lose resolution. I can't read it. Eaton has been doing the Zinger for some time.



But all the ones I've seen have been funboards.

I would like to give it a try. Seems like with boxes in all positions you could sub in either of the Bonzer 5 fins. Which would you leave you screwed if you felt like you needed that Bonzer3 size lead fins, but like I said, that seems like a lot of fin.


Originally Posted By: GWS
I've never ridden them. Hate the way they look. IMHO, it just cheapens the look of the board. Which means jack-$hit if it surfs well, but whatever. Malcolm doesn't like them. For me that says it all. I don't argue with him on things Bonzer. Or Twinzer or Twonzer or ...

shrug


stoked to see Roberts messing around w/ this and his team riders diggin them

and thanks for sharing GWS jam_on


Yesssirrr!
Posted By: Fredtool

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 05:20 PM

GDaddy. A small keel is a good idea. I was also thinking of a keel with a cutaway base. Maybe a little more cut then Normal.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 06:03 PM

ACE was recommending low aspect fins for their bonzer and Zinger designs on those midlengths. I think in part because of the prevailing conditions at Sunset Cliffs where they were centered. He has previously commented about thinking that there's considerable overlay between channels and fins, enough so that he favored his 6-shooter (quad + canards) on flat bottoms over doing channels.

So now we've been seeing the NPjr twin single, and we know that the use of channels allows for the use of smaller fins and that channels add hold as well as adding drive, so this design has taken that track further by skipping altogether the twin single + channels combo that would have been an intermediary step between the two. The other thing is that Roberts has the main fins way further back when compared to the NPjr design, which engages them even more.
Posted By: GDaddy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Fredtool
GDaddy. A small keel is a good idea. I was also thinking of a keel with a cutaway base. Maybe a little more cut then Normal.


This is my favorite fin setup for fishes.

Posted By: 000

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 07:06 PM

the more the merrier?

Something different to try. Shout to Tim Stafford, UK Bonzer shaper who does something similar(less runners!) #bonzer7 #shaping #8fin #shapingbay #showusyourquiver #surf #surfing #surfboard #waves

A post shared by Simon Russ (@twinfreaker) on

Posted By: Greg Griffin

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 07:45 PM

Gosh ! All this Highjacking and no ill comments wave2

Rawson has some custom foam fins by Tom Hawk - when "Custom design " included the fins too .
Posted By: Duffy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 07:47 PM

Made by a friend...

Posted By: Clamsmasha

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 08:11 PM

Miller!
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 09:10 PM

Definitely interesting. I wasn't too keen on how they looked at first but they've grown on me. My buddy just got a WD3 twonzer.
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Made by a friend...



Davey Smith 8 fin.
Posted By: SlicedFeet

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
ACE was recommending low aspect fins for their bonzer and Zinger designs on those midlengths. I think in part because of the prevailing conditions at Sunset Cliffs where they were centered. He has previously commented about thinking that there's considerable overlay between channels and fins, enough so that he favored his 6-shooter (quad + canards) on flat bottoms over doing channels.

So now we've been seeing the NPjr twin single, and we know that the use of channels allows for the use of smaller fins and that channels add hold as well as adding drive, so this design has taken that track further by skipping altogether the twin single + channels combo that would have been an intermediary step between the two. The other thing is that Roberts has the main fins way further back when compared to the NPjr design, which engages them even more.



Very interesting you brought this up and you’re spot on.

I was recently talking to GG about an 8 channel quad speed egg he made me, which is insane, and I mentioned how it absolutly flys, loves the pocket, but it’s very different when going hard on the rail for a roundhouse. It projects differently on rail with fast speed but wants to flatten a tad. Sorta like a fish squirting through the hands. I just throw more weight into it, but GG immediately said the trailers should be reduced to correct it. Lightbulb finally went off in my head...of course...the channels are creating a bigger “fin” .

BTW...who ever said channels don’t work in chop... hah good job at keeping a speedy production line all these years.
Posted By: SlicedFeet

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/15/17 10:22 PM

.
Posted By: youcantbeserious

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/16/17 12:33 AM

Well looks like I know what I'll be ordering in a few weeks...
Posted By: Oceanslide

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/16/17 03:13 AM

Although that fin placement looks so odd, the boards (and concept) look
fun and I'd love to feel what they provide. Would be really cool to see video
footage of those rippers on that fin setup/board.
Thanks for sharing something interesting, GWS.
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/16/17 02:46 PM

definitely interested in this.

is the brofish a new model?
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/16/17 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: rts265
definitely interested in this.

is the brofish a new model?


Yes.
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/16/17 10:08 PM

Here's Robert his self, hand-jiving an estimated 220 pounds through an incredibly tiny mush burger with ease this morning. He's going to claim its closer to 200 lbs, but I think his scale is broken. wink Putting his feet on top of what he shaped, his money where his mouth is, etc etc. BroFish Twonzer.





Posted By: afoaf

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/17/17 12:45 AM

fat shaming!
Posted By: 000

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/17/17 05:48 PM

Posted By: Clamsmasha

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/17/17 08:20 PM

Sit on it Ralph!
Posted By: greysuit

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/17/17 08:31 PM

tiny mushburger? That's waist high, at least shark
Posted By: Fredtool

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 10/18/17 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: GDaddy
ACE was recommending low aspect fins for their bonzer and Zinger designs on those midlengths. I think in part because of the prevailing conditions at Sunset Cliffs where they were centered. He has previously commented about thinking that there's considerable overlay between channels and fins, enough so that he favored his 6-shooter (quad + canards) on flat bottoms over doing channels.

So now we've been seeing the NPjr twin single, and we know that the use of channels allows for the use of smaller fins and that channels add hold as well as adding drive, so this design has taken that track further by skipping altogether the twin single + channels combo that would have been an intermediary step between the two. The other thing is that Roberts has the main fins way further back when compared to the NPjr design, which engages them even more.


One thing I love about Ace is that he does his own thing. Trends in Boards doesn’t make much of a difference in what he is doing with his designs. I have looked at some of his new work and he has a couple of boards with a deep, deep channel. I would say more of a concave in the tail pairing it up with his single keel fin.
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 01:53 PM

I haven't been on here in years, and this is what I find.....

Awesome!

The twonzer is a great concept. As mentioned, the Eaton Zingers have been around for over 20 years, and I know others have used the concept.

This is from Empire in the U.K.

[img][url=Http://s70.photobucket.com/user/nickandfiona/media/DSC01747.jpg.html][url=Http://s70.photobucket.com/user/nickandfiona/media/DSC01747.jpg.html][url=Http://s70.photobucket.com/user/nickandfiona/media/DSC01747.jpg.html]Http://s70.photobucket.com/user/nickandfiona/media/DSC01747.jpg.html[/url][/url][/url][/img]

I made loads in various configurations under my Royal name as well, and they all worked insanely well.

It's great to see Roberts playing with it. Looks like fun to me!
Posted By: Bonzer5Fin

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 02:28 PM

I went by Roberts yesterday, and wow. Just wow. The dude is so amazingly stocked on surfing and design. We talked fins, channels, rockers, I saw many of the boards that are in these pics, felt them up, ooh'd and aww'd over a bunch of cool stuff around his shop, and then he says, "here, this one is mine. Go ride it before the wind picks up." I jammed to a little crappy spot that looked like shit, but I haven't surfed in over 2 months, so I went out. Damn, a 5'11" in this gutless junk is just wrong. The board needed a good wave, I was was sure. Little bump jumps up and whoa! The board worked right into it, and just made section after section. My back foot was in front of the pad, too. Still turning and feeling the drive from the fin set up and the whole sheebang. Paddle back, another one, and on and on. I was gonna just get wet, and ended up getting a really fun session in with 4 guys who never caught much at all. I almost felt bad for them. There was Wavestorm guy, the longboarder, the dude on the fish, and the ripper. All didn't make waves nearly as long as mine, nor did they collectively catch as many, and I'm 10 pounds overweight and haven't surfed in a long time. I'll be ordering one. Thanks Robert for putting some stock back into my surfing. (Bonzer type stuff really makes sense to me, and Robert is doing a lot of cool stuff with bottoms and fins that I'm familiar with.)
I then went to see GWS and ordered a Bonzer from Malcolm, who happened to be there. Hell of a damn fine day in Ventura yesterday.
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 06:23 PM

Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 06:25 PM

definitely see one in my future...
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 06:29 PM

Posted By: sdsurfrat

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/02/17 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: twinzerfan



No way man, it's TWINZERFAN!!! wave2
Posted By: surfwhere

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/03/17 10:39 PM

That one's sick. Rob had done one with tail kinda similar, inspired by his Diamond Fish. He started out with a cut WD3 and then shaped in the tail and channels. WD rocker and those channels with the fins has got to be lightening.

WD3_Twonzer
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/05/17 12:52 PM

yeah man! stoked to see Roberts making these boards!

The one's I posted above are from Empire in the UK. not mine.

These things are so much fun!

although uncle Wil did not approve..... lol










post up some more, this is getting me fired up!
wave2
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/05/17 06:27 PM

I've got one in glassing. Considering it's a 7'3" midsize I probably won't post a picture of it. Kind of curious to see how it will go on a longer board.
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/05/17 07:49 PM

Wonder what Malcolm would say to a alpha omega twonzer?
Posted By: Bonzer5Fin

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/10/17 05:40 PM

Work on Malcolm for a while. He may come around. Still no bat tail quads out of the Bonzer station, yet, but it's only been a little while, like 5 or 6 years.
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/10/17 05:43 PM

B5 - did you ever get your bonzers glassed at stretch? how did that turn out?
Posted By: surfeasto

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 11/13/17 09:29 AM

Originally Posted By: GWS
I've got one in glassing. Considering it's a 7'3" midsize I probably won't post a picture of it. Kind of curious to see how it will go on a longer board.


post it up! a few of us here actually ride boards like that! wink
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/15/18 01:36 AM

Should I order this in xtr or what?

What’s base price for eps from Roberts?

Really shouldn’t be ordering anything right now
Posted By: YakAK

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/15/18 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: rts265
Should I order this in xtr or what?

What’s base price for eps from Roberts?

Really shouldn’t be ordering anything right now


Famous last words. laugh
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/15/18 07:34 PM

Anyone else have experience with the brofish twonzer?

Decided to sit out the xtr sale, for now....
Posted By: 20W-50 and blood

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/16/18 01:34 AM

mi the only oen who wants an xtr bonzer octa thing for life?
Posted By: rts265

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/16/18 01:46 AM

I think I saw a xtr ci bonzer. Maybe a bisquik or other ci models are a possibility
Posted By: 000

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/18/18 01:47 AM

i call this a twatzer:





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Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/18/18 04:04 PM

not a twatzer. looks like a twadfin to me.

and her face looks late 40's-50 to me. which skin does she claim looks younger?
Posted By: BORDEAUX

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 12/19/18 04:06 AM

I got to ride a Roberts Twonzer "Disco Diamond" prototype maybe a month ago, thing was so slippery fast in tiny waves. I'd definitely get one in the future.
Posted By: Retropete

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/08/19 11:24 AM

Apologies if this has been posted already.
Roberts discussing the twonzer design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU2uqu19wJ4
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/08/19 12:23 PM

Interesting to hear that he has tried them in Indo and liked them. I had a similar experience in Fiji. Would've loved to hear him talk about the overlap and rear placement. Bummed I missed him this summer when I was out there.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/08/19 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
not a twatzer. looks like a twadfin to me.


I’d call it a qunt.
Posted By: patrolman

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/08/19 04:11 PM

Question about the canard- isn't it supposed to prevent the main fin from cavitating? Wouldn't most of the cavitation happen at the tip? So shouldn't the canard be deeper?

Just thinking out loud....
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/09/19 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: patrolman
Question about the canard- isn't it supposed to prevent the main fin from cavitating? Wouldn't most of the cavitation happen at the tip? So shouldn't the canard be deeper?

Just thinking out loud....


I was surprised at how big the canards are on Robert's twonzer. From my own testing, I noticed that even w/ bigger canards, they still slide if placed w/ too much overlap. I really wanted to chat w/ him about his placement, but I was at the shop in the a.m. and they had no idea what time he was getting in.

From what I think I understand, the canard redirects flow onto the main fin, which increases pressure and keeps it from cavitating at a higher angle of attack at low speeds.

I gotta try to hunt down Wil and have a chat w/ him about the function of the canards. He mentioned to me that spreading the cluster will increase hold and draw out turns in bigger waves, which I knew from riding quads. When I met him in person, we talked more about bottom contours.
Posted By: patrolman

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/10/19 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
Originally Posted By: patrolman
Question about the canard- isn't it supposed to prevent the main fin from cavitating? Wouldn't most of the cavitation happen at the tip? So shouldn't the canard be deeper?

Just thinking out loud....


I was surprised at how big the canards are on Robert's twonzer. From my own testing, I noticed that even w/ bigger canards, they still slide if placed w/ too much overlap. I really wanted to chat w/ him about his placement, but I was at the shop in the a.m. and they had no idea what time he was getting in.

From what I think I understand, the canard redirects flow onto the main fin, which increases pressure and keeps it from cavitating at a higher angle of attack at low speeds.

I gotta try to hunt down Wil and have a chat w/ him about the function of the canards. He mentioned to me that spreading the cluster will increase hold and draw out turns in bigger waves, which I knew from riding quads. When I met him in person, we talked more about bottom contours.


I have a mid length twinzer and this past weekend was out in solid overhead surf. The board is normally (small waves) pretty loose for its size. In the solid surf, going MUCH faster it no longer felt loose at all. Maybe the canard action is only kicking in at this higher speed?
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/11/19 03:49 AM

Originally Posted By: patrolman
Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
Originally Posted By: patrolman
Question about the canard- isn't it supposed to prevent the main fin from cavitating? Wouldn't most of the cavitation happen at the tip? So shouldn't the canard be deeper?

Just thinking out loud....


I was surprised at how big the canards are on Robert's twonzer. From my own testing, I noticed that even w/ bigger canards, they still slide if placed w/ too much overlap. I really wanted to chat w/ him about his placement, but I was at the shop in the a.m. and they had no idea what time he was getting in.

From what I think I understand, the canard redirects flow onto the main fin, which increases pressure and keeps it from cavitating at a higher angle of attack at low speeds.

I gotta try to hunt down Wil and have a chat w/ him about the function of the canards. He mentioned to me that spreading the cluster will increase hold and draw out turns in bigger waves, which I knew from riding quads. When I met him in person, we talked more about bottom contours.


I have a mid length twinzer and this past weekend was out in solid overhead surf. The board is normally (small waves) pretty loose for its size. In the solid surf, going MUCH faster it no longer felt loose at all. Maybe the canard action is only kicking in at this higher speed?


I've never experienced this, so I can't explain it. Sounds counterintuitive, though. Most boards loosen up w/ speed.
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 06:35 PM

I always thought of canard placement like the way sails work. The jib smooths the flow over the main sail making it more effective. If you open the slot that effectiveness changes, however as the wind increases, such as board speed, less slot is needed for same effect. But, it still has to be trimmed correctly or the sails will stall or deform (which shows the flow) and you slow down
Posted By: GWS

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: twinzerfan
I always thought of canard placement like the way sails work. The jib smooths the flow over the main sail making it more effective. If you open the slot that effectiveness changes, however as the wind increases, such as board speed, less slot is needed for same effect. But, it still has to be trimmed correctly or the sails will stall or deform (which shows the flow) and you slow down


Interesting. Although a genoa (previously called an overlapping jib) is a foresail that closes the gap between the main the foresail entirely, in fact overlapping. In some cases substantially. And its used in light air.



As a kid I used to crew on boats before roller reefing. I used to hate when they would put one of those things up in light air when I knew it was going to blow in an hour. Because I was the poor slob who had to go up there and drop the beast, wrestle it into a bag and raise the smaller jib sail.
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 06:51 PM

+1
agree w/ the sail analogy

Originally Posted By: patrolman
Maybe the canard action is only kicking in at this higher speed?


canards are supposed to prevent stall at higher aoa at low speeds
Posted By: SlicedFeet

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 07:08 PM

I have 4 boards that are “quads” with added canards, 6fins.

They all perform the same. A 6’10, 7’8, and two 9’0 longboards. I feel the canards increase the speed of the board on roundhouses and bottom turns. Also they are steady as F in the pit, like being on a sidewalk.

For me, I tottaly get the canard. On birds of prey, the reason why they are so agile is that they use their canard to speed up their tight turns when hooking prey. If the canard slowed them down in a turn, they’d be extinct. smile

I have found that the 6 fin is its own beast, it doesnt work if you just add canards to a traditional quad set up.

Looks like Roberts has put lots of testing on his fin placement too for his Twonzer.

Board look cool.



Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 08:00 PM

Well said GWS!

I’m sure there’s something to do with the area of the sail too, especially in light airs.

I laughed out loud at your story too cheers
Posted By: twinzerfan

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 08:08 PM

Posted By: patrolman

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/13/19 08:34 PM

I've spent a lot of time messing about in boats (not as much as tom@daum who should chime in). The sail doesn't need to overlap to affect the air flow on the main sail. In fact if you look at perfomance boats these days most no not have overlapping jibs.


The air/water cavitates on the outside edge (leeward in sail terms). The canard's inner edge which is working efficiently, even if it itself is cavitating, keeps the outside edge of the main fin from cavitating.

My question is about the depth. Most jibs will reach the mast head or 7/8th or 3/4s of the way up. The canard on boards is less than 50%. Also the main sail on a boat doesn't need the canard at the mast head because you can twist the sail, something you can't do on a surfboard fin.
Posted By: Spinafex

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 01/14/19 03:42 AM

Originally Posted By: patrolman
I've spent a lot of time messing about in boats (not as much as tom@daum who should chime in). The sail doesn't need to overlap to affect the air flow on the main sail. In fact if you look at perfomance boats these days most no not have overlapping jibs.


The air/water cavitates on the outside edge (leeward in sail terms). The canard's inner edge which is working efficiently, even if it itself is cavitating, keeps the outside edge of the main fin from cavitating.

My question is about the depth. Most jibs will reach the mast head or 7/8th or 3/4s of the way up. The canard on boards is less than 50%. Also the main sail on a boat doesn't need the canard at the mast head because you can twist the sail, something you can't do on a surfboard fin.



Roberts twonser canards look to be about 3/4 of the rear fins. The rears are smaller than regular twins.
Does anyone have ride reports?
Posted By: Barknuckle

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 03/26/19 02:11 AM

Picked up a used 5'11 42L Brofish and all I gotta say is I'm super stocked at the amazing amount of speed down the line and it held with all the power I could throw at it. It's a bit oversized for me, i'm 46, 5'10 190LBS, as I wanted a beefy fish style board to just cruise on and nurse my bad knees back into surf shape. The waves were head+ glassy fast down the line runners....this board just accelerated with back foot pressure and I made waves I wouldn't have made on my SB...I'm thinking of upgrading to a disco diamond 5'9 for more high performance shred fest cause the Brofish just reignited my 22yr old brain inside my crusty midlife crisis bones...
Posted By: Aruka

Re: The Roberts Twonzer - 03/26/19 05:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Barknuckle
Picked up a used 5'11 42L Brofish and all I gotta say is I'm super stocked at the amazing amount of speed down the line and it held with all the power I could throw at it. It's a bit oversized for me, i'm 46, 5'10 190LBS, as I wanted a beefy fish style board to just cruise on and nurse my bad knees back into surf shape. The waves were head+ glassy fast down the line runners....this board just accelerated with back foot pressure and I made waves I wouldn't have made on my SB...I'm thinking of upgrading to a disco diamond 5'9 for more high performance shred fest cause the Brofish just reignited my 22yr old brain inside my crusty midlife crisis bones...


Ancient surf animal brain activated. Hell yeah Barknuckle, get it.
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