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Can we talk about the keto diet?

Posted By: hal9000

Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 05:36 PM

And how dumb it is?
Posted By: sizzld1

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 05:53 PM

Just ask anyone you know who is on it. They seem to love talking about their diet almost as much as vegans. dancing
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 06:11 PM

my french neighbors eat this way...

I said, "you guys are ketogenic?"

they said, "no. we're just french"

(she is gluten intolerant, so it's basically all protein, cheese, veggies.)

it's an easy diet, especially if you do your own cooking.
Posted By: tacos

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 06:14 PM

Is this a bat signal to Squidley to post us his extensive keto research? batman

Or are you guys just going to argue over here now?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: tacos
Is this a bat signal to Squidley to post us his extensive keto research? batman

Or are you guys just going to argue over here now?


a little from column A, a little from column B
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Just ask anyone you know who is on it. They seem to love talking about their diet almost as much as vegans. dancing


Seriously. This is all I've been hearing about at ever stupid xmas dinner I've attended. It's like a competition.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 10:27 PM

Iím on the Frito diet.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Just ask anyone you know who is on it. They seem to love talking about their diet almost as much as vegans. dancing


Seriously. This is all I've been hearing about at ever stupid xmas dinner I've attended. It's like a competition.


take it up a notch and tell them how you used to be keto, but got tired of consuming factory farmed meat and now you only eat what you kill or find

Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/27/18 11:58 PM

Keto is the new Crossfit.
Posted By: LogHauler

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 01:38 AM

I tried it for about a 6 weeks. The idea is simple. If your body doesn't have any carbs to burn it will burn fat instead. I lost about 12lbs in that 6 weeks. During that time I didn't exercise much more than walking a couple of miles 3 or 4 times a week. I didn't calorie count but I drastically reduced carbs and I ate no "bad" carbs. The worst side effect was constipation.

About 2 weeks ago I began weight training and playing basketball. My neighbor, (who is a trainer), says I need carbs for what I'm doing so I'm back to a more normal diet.

We'll see.
Posted By: tsenn

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 02:17 AM

Most of them talk about it because they are selling it...multi level marketing bs...
Posted By: tsenn

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 02:19 AM

When I started looking at diets and food I started at longevity...who lives the longest and what do they eat? That led me to the Blue Zones...pretty much how I eat regularly...
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: tsenn
Most of them talk about it because they are selling it...multi level marketing bs...


What is there to sell? Itís not like thereís Zone bars or MCT oil to sell.
Posted By: NDG80

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 02:59 AM

friends of mine swear by it but I like certain foods too much and dont have problems losing weight as long as Im burning more cals than Im eating.
Posted By: StinkinHippie

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:16 AM

Any eating plan without carbs is foolish.

Guess what, if your wife or GF gets on this keto diet she's going to be a BTB. BIG TIME BITCH.

No carbs = irritable kunt.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: StinkinHippie
Any eating plan without carbs is foolish.

Guess what, if your wife or GF gets on this keto diet she's going to be a BTB. BIG TIME BITCH.

No carbs = irritable kunt.


Yup. But try telling that to a keto person. They insist that being in ketosis is a normal part of our homeostasis.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 04:13 AM

This might be the erBB record for cocksure ignorance
Posted By: tsenn

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 04:13 AM

Old co workers sold the Pruvit Keto...bla bla bla...
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 04:17 AM

Originally Posted By: tsenn
Old co workers sold the Pruvit Keto...bla bla bla...

Yeah I've seen some snake oil coming out to try and "promote ketones" and other BS

There's nothing to sell to make Keto work. All one has to do is stay under 25ish net carbs per day.

Intermittent fasting works on the same principles and gets the body to burn the same way with a less strict diet.
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 04:35 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
This might be the erBB record for cocksure ignorance


JUST WHAT A CROSSKETOFIT PERSON WOULD SAY, BR‹
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 04:40 AM

Originally Posted By: StinkinHippie
Any eating plan without carbs is foolish.

Guess what, if your wife or GF gets on this keto diet she's going to be a BTB. BIG TIME BITCH.

No carbs = irritable kunt.


Only for a few days.

I donít eat a whole lot of carbs, they make me feel like shit.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 09:22 AM

Quote:
I tried it for about a 6 weeks. The idea is simple. If your body doesn't have any carbs to burn it will burn fat instead. I lost about 12lbs in that 6 weeks.

A lot of that weight was probably water weight, not fat. Carbs are stored in your muscles as glycogen, and each gram of carbs holds on to about 3-4 grams of water. When you restrict carbs, your body will use that glycogen as fuel. Hence the rapid weight loss. If you want to see if that weight loss was fat, eat a pizza or bowl of pasta and see if you are still down 12 pounds the day after.
Quote:
The idea is simple. If your body doesn't have any carbs to burn it will burn fat instead

Your body will still burn dietary fat first. If you are in a calorie deficit, then your body will move into burning stored body fat, but it would do that on a carb based diet as well.

Keto does not have any magical fat burning properties. If you eat an excessive amount of calories on keto you will still gain weight. Keto does have some appetite supressive effects, so any success with keto comes from indirectly restricting calories.

Science, out! beer
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 09:47 AM

you kind lose interest in eating when you're deep in to it AND eating
carbs makes you feel like such a pile of shit that the emergent sense
of disgust reinforces your adherence to the keto menu.

green tea, fruits, and veggie snacks help keep you sane.

it can be expensive if you just try to red meat your way through each
day....even if you rotate chicken and fish, your grocery bill will likely
go up if you're overly reliant on animal proteins.

I know some people are not keen on them, but I like legumes mixed
in for slow carbs that don't put you in to a glycemic coma...good fiber
too.

I do best when I allow myself to be less stirict from friday night to sunday
morning. after a while you won't want go crush a california burrito and
some coldstones...you just kind of lose the appetite for that shit after
a few weeks...but you can drink (beer even) on the weekends and have
a burger and fries and it won't fark with your levels.

I don't know if I could swing the intermittent fasting like ifallalot does...I
work from home and cook daily which makes bored/stress snacking a
bugaboo. I heard someone mentioning that they drink bone broth during
the day along with coffee and water and that doesn't bork the fasting
cycle. I definitely like fasted cardio/weights in the morning and afternoon;
the benefits are visible.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 10:09 AM

Carbs are by far the easiest nutrient to overeat. They are also difficult to portion and guesstimate their calories visually. If you replace that with vegetables, you can fill your plate liberally and get very full with a negligible amount of calories, while eliminating a large number of calories by not eating carbs. Proteins on the other hand are difficult to overeat and therefore self regulating, while fats are somewhere in between.

Keto forces you to give up chips, most fried food, sweets, etc along with requiring low alcohol intake. High calorie restaurant meals are also not an option. All of these have a huge impact on reducing calorie intake and water weight fluctuations, which is where the overall weight loss comes from.

I think there are lessons to be learned from this style of eating, but it is not a metabolic hack in and of itself. There are also some short sighted ideas like limiting legumes, which are very satiating and low calorie, and some flat out idiotic ideas like putting tablespoons of butter and coconut oil in your coffee as a weight loss strategy roflmao

In the end, thermodynamics wins every time. If keto helps you stay consistent, great, but realize it is merely a strategy for better compliance.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
This might be the erBB record for cocksure ignorance


Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 11:46 AM

Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.

Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: tsenn
Old co workers sold the Pruvit Keto...bla bla bla...

Yeah I've seen some snake oil coming out to try and "promote ketones" and other BS

There's nothing to sell to make Keto work. All one has to do is stay under 25ish net carbs per day.

Intermittent fasting works on the same principles and gets the body to burn the same way with a less strict diet.
this be true. keto is easy to follow and it works.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



Iíve done a couple iron distance triathlons, one while on a high carb/high fueling (during race) diet and one on a very low carb/low fueling (during race) and there was no discernible performance difference.

The only thing I noticed was during training I had a lower incidence of ďcrashingĒ (where Iíd go into a hypoglycemic shit zone) when I was on the low carb diet.

The high carb diet was a roller coaster at times and if I didnít eat Iíd basically just pass out.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:22 PM

One size does not fit all.

I think intermittent fasting is good but it's a bitch you have to do work that creates a high cognitive strain.

I would be in front of the class and be like, "Teacher can't think good when he doesn't eat, kids."
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, brown rice, unprocessed foods, olive oil, seafood, and don't overeat. It's not that complicated.

Only in America do we have these dilemmas of "which diet is best for losing weight?!"
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: StinkinHippie
Any eating plan without carbs is foolish.

Guess what, if your wife or GF gets on this keto diet she's going to be a BTB. BIG TIME BITCH.

No carbs = irritable kunt.


Only for a few days.

I donít eat a whole lot of carbs, they make me feel like shit.

Neither do I. I'm by no means Keto, but when I eat pizza or a bagel or something now I feel like ass
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
you kind lose interest in eating when you're deep in to it AND eating
carbs makes you feel like such a pile of shit that the emergent sense
of disgust reinforces your adherence to the keto menu.

green tea, fruits, and veggie snacks help keep you sane.

it can be expensive if you just try to red meat your way through each
day....even if you rotate chicken and fish, your grocery bill will likely
go up if you're overly reliant on animal proteins.

I know some people are not keen on them, but I like legumes mixed
in for slow carbs that don't put you in to a glycemic coma...good fiber
too.

I do best when I allow myself to be less stirict from friday night to sunday
morning. after a while you won't want go crush a california burrito and
some coldstones...you just kind of lose the appetite for that shit after
a few weeks...but you can drink (beer even) on the weekends and have
a burger and fries and it won't fark with your levels.

I don't know if I could swing the intermittent fasting like ifallalot does...I
work from home and cook daily which makes bored/stress snacking a
bugaboo. I heard someone mentioning that they drink bone broth during
the day along with coffee and water and that doesn't bork the fasting
cycle. I definitely like fasted cardio/weights in the morning and afternoon;
the benefits are visible.




hah
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else

http://www.nourishbalancethrive.com/blog/2014/08/20/six-steps-fat-adaptation-athletes/

https://ultrarunning.com/features/health-and-nutrition/the-emerging-science-on-fat-adaptation/

And tons more

Now this of course some carbs, not no carbs and when talking the numbers we talk about "net" carbs. Every gram of fiber cancels out a gram of carbohydrates
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, brown rice, unprocessed foods, olive oil, seafood, and don't overeat. It's not that complicated.

Only in America do we have these dilemmas of "which diet is best for losing weight?!"

Obesity is a worldwide phenomena


Adult obesity rates are highest in the...apan and Korea.


UK is most obese country in western Europe, OECD finds
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
you kind lose interest in eating when you're deep in to it AND eating
carbs makes you feel like such a pile of shit that the emergent sense
of disgust reinforces your adherence to the keto menu.

green tea, fruits, and veggie snacks help keep you sane.

it can be expensive if you just try to red meat your way through each
day....even if you rotate chicken and fish, your grocery bill will likely
go up if you're overly reliant on animal proteins.

I know some people are not keen on them, but I like legumes mixed
in for slow carbs that don't put you in to a glycemic coma...good fiber
too.

I do best when I allow myself to be less stirict from friday night to sunday
morning. after a while you won't want go crush a california burrito and
some coldstones...you just kind of lose the appetite for that shit after
a few weeks...but you can drink (beer even) on the weekends and have
a burger and fries and it won't fark with your levels.

I don't know if I could swing the intermittent fasting like ifallalot does...I
work from home and cook daily which makes bored/stress snacking a
bugaboo. I heard someone mentioning that they drink bone broth during
the day along with coffee and water and that doesn't bork the fasting
cycle. I definitely like fasted cardio/weights in the morning and afternoon;
the benefits are visible.

The IF is easy when you time it right. I do 16:8 and rarely go with the days on-days off approach. That's basically just skipping breakfast. I eat at 11am, then after the gym around 6:45, and then rinse and repeat. I usually have one snack between my two meals.

I've tried the OMAD (one meal a day) thing a few times but I usually feel like shit because I just gorge myself at my one meal, when I'd rather eat two smaller meals

How do you drink green tea on an empty stomach? It f's me up. But then again I drink black coffee all morning on an empty stomach and that tears other people up.
Posted By: Muscles

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 05:16 PM

The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.

All the Keto diet does is indirectly fill you up because it's hard to overeat you're caloric intake on it.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



Iíve done a couple iron distance triathlons, one while on a high carb/high fueling (during race) diet and one on a very low carb/low fueling (during race) and there was no discernible performance difference.

The only thing I noticed was during training I had a lower incidence of ďcrashingĒ (where Iíd go into a hypoglycemic shit zone) when I was on the low carb diet.

The high carb diet was a roller coaster at times and if I didnít eat Iíd basically just pass out.


Exactly.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



Iíve done a couple iron distance triathlons, one while on a high carb/high fueling (during race) diet and one on a very low carb/low fueling (during race) and there was no discernible performance difference.

The only thing I noticed was during training I had a lower incidence of ďcrashingĒ (where Iíd go into a hypoglycemic shit zone) when I was on the low carb diet.

The high carb diet was a roller coaster at times and if I didnít eat Iíd basically just pass out.


Exactly.



Yes. Exactly. Low carb diet for endurance training is BETTER.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.
Posted By: LogHauler

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
I tried it for about a 6 weeks. The idea is simple. If your body doesn't have any carbs to burn it will burn fat instead. I lost about 12lbs in that 6 weeks.

A lot of that weight was probably water weight, not fat. Carbs are stored in your muscles as glycogen, and each gram of carbs holds on to about 3-4 grams of water. When you restrict carbs, your body will use that glycogen as fuel. Hence the rapid weight loss. If you want to see if that weight loss was fat, eat a pizza or bowl of pasta and see if you are still down 12 pounds the day after.
Quote:
The idea is simple. If your body doesn't have any carbs to burn it will burn fat instead

Your body will still burn dietary fat first. If you are in a calorie deficit, then your body will move into burning stored body fat, but it would do that on a carb based diet as well.

Keto does not have any magical fat burning properties. If you eat an excessive amount of calories on keto you will still gain weight. Keto does have some appetite supressive effects, so any success with keto comes from indirectly restricting calories.

Science, out! beer


I've been off the keto thing for about 2 weeks now. Still down 12 lbs. I'm not one that runs around touting my beliefs... just saying how it went for me and what I was told the theory behind it was. It's worth noting that I was once Type 2 diabetic, (my numbers have not indicated diabetes for many months), and, for that reason, I will always pay close attention to my carb intake.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



Iíve done a couple iron distance triathlons, one while on a high carb/high fueling (during race) diet and one on a very low carb/low fueling (during race) and there was no discernible performance difference.

The only thing I noticed was during training I had a lower incidence of ďcrashingĒ (where Iíd go into a hypoglycemic shit zone) when I was on the low carb diet.

The high carb diet was a roller coaster at times and if I didnít eat Iíd basically just pass out.


Exactly.



Yes. Exactly. Low carb diet for endurance training is BETTER.


How the fŁck is going into hypoglycemic shock better? roflmao
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:11 PM

I like carbs. shrug
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, brown rice, unprocessed foods, olive oil, seafood, and don't overeat. It's not that complicated.

Only in America do we have these dilemmas of "which diet is best for losing weight?!"

Obesity is a worldwide phenomena


Adult obesity rates are highest in the...apan and Korea.


UK is most obese country in western Europe, OECD finds


People get obese from eating meat too. foreheadslap

You are worse than CrossFit bros.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: rice
I like carbs. shrug



You fat pig. cheers
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Muscles
The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.

All the Keto diet does is indirectly fill you up because it's hard to overeat you're caloric intake on it.

This, /thread
beer
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: Muscles
The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.

All the Keto diet does is indirectly fill you up because it's hard to overeat you're caloric intake on it.

This, /thread
beer


Not if ifall and Squidley log on. toilet


Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



Iíve done a couple iron distance triathlons, one while on a high carb/high fueling (during race) diet and one on a very low carb/low fueling (during race) and there was no discernible performance difference.

The only thing I noticed was during training I had a lower incidence of ďcrashingĒ (where Iíd go into a hypoglycemic shit zone) when I was on the low carb diet.

The high carb diet was a roller coaster at times and if I didnít eat Iíd basically just pass out.


Exactly.



Yes. Exactly. Low carb diet for endurance training is BETTER.


How the fŁck is going into hypoglycemic shock better? roflmao


Read it again. LOWER incidence of hypoglycemic shock with LOW CARB diet.
Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Muscles
The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.


Do you even Keto bro?
Posted By: Muscles

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: jkb
Originally Posted By: Muscles
The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.


Do you even Keto bro?

No.

In all seriousness, I try to keep my carbs to under 800 Calories per day.

My diet looks like this:
Breakfast: 4 eggs and piece of toast. About 450 Calories.
Lunch: 12 oz chicken with Salad with light sprinkling of oil and vinegar dressing.
Dinner: 12 oz meat of some kind and 8 oz serving of rice or pasta.

I don't usually drink alcohol and try to avoid red meat. I don't eat dairy.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.

Holy shit how long are you going to deny it?

Becoming fat-adapted doesn't happen overnight. And you're willfully denying the evidence of people, in articles I've posted and writing on this message board that people who are fat-adapted feel like shit WHEN using carbs as fuel. My body feels like its working much harder to digest anything when I'm eating lots of carbs
Posted By: Big_Ups

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 09:06 PM

If you Wim-Hof breathe you can eat whatever you like. beer
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Big_Ups
If you Wim-Hof breathe you can eat whatever you like. beer

And immune to hypothermia roflmao
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace


How the fŁck is going into hypoglycemic shock better? roflmao


Read it again. LOWER incidence of hypoglycemic shock with LOW CARB diet.


Bullshit.

Hypoglycemic literally means deficiency of glucose in the bloodstream.

Consuming less glucose is not going to make that better. foreheadslap

Science.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.

Holy shit how long are you going to deny it?

Becoming fat-adapted doesn't happen overnight. And you're willfully denying the evidence of people, in articles I've posted and writing on this message board that people who are fat-adapted feel like shit WHEN using carbs as fuel. My body feels like its working much harder to digest anything when I'm eating lots of carbs


You are denying science again.

You can get fat adapted all you want, eating a steak before an endurance activity and not consuming carbs will fŁck you up. Fact.

Blaming obesity on carbs is also a straw man science denying bullshit.

Body is not designed to use fat as the main energy source by default for a reason. It's hard work to break it down and it takes time to convert it to energy. No good if you are going hypoglycemic.
Posted By: noone

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 11:09 PM

Fecalface is spot on. Science wins.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/28/18 11:16 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace


How the fŁck is going into hypoglycemic shock better? roflmao


Read it again. LOWER incidence of hypoglycemic shock with LOW CARB diet.


Bullshit.

Hypoglycemic literally means deficiency of glucose in the bloodstream.

Consuming less glucose is not going to make that better. foreheadslap

Science.


When I eat a high carb diet I have to eat more more often and I get a cycle of spikes and crashes.

Spike, crash....

Itís like a turbo charged 4 cylinder engine. Revs high and then blows up.

When I eat low carb Iím running with a V8.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.

Holy shit how long are you going to deny it?

Becoming fat-adapted doesn't happen overnight. And you're willfully denying the evidence of people, in articles I've posted and writing on this message board that people who are fat-adapted feel like shit WHEN using carbs as fuel. My body feels like its working much harder to digest anything when I'm eating lots of carbs


I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that "fat-adapted" is not a real thing.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: noone
Fecalface is spot on. Science wins.


yup.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: Big_Ups
If you Wim-Hof breathe you can eat whatever you like. beer

And immune to hypothermia roflmao


My tolerance to cold has improved by cold training once a week.

It still feels terrible when I get in but in about a minute I'm fine.

I can stay in for a long time but then I shiver so bad when I get out.

It's weird when you go into cold water you breath Wim Hoffs style anyway.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.

Holy shit how long are you going to deny it?

Becoming fat-adapted doesn't happen overnight. And you're willfully denying the evidence of people, in articles I've posted and writing on this message board that people who are fat-adapted feel like shit WHEN using carbs as fuel. My body feels like its working much harder to digest anything when I'm eating lots of carbs


I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that "fat-adapted" is not a real thing.


You can get better at burning fat for energy.

You have to deprive it of it's other source.

Some people do better on carbs.

If you do better on fat you think everyone should do it.

The key is to try and see.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:30 AM

Quote:
You can get better at burning fat for energy.

You have to deprive it of it's other source.

Some people do better on carbs.

If you do better on fat you think everyone should do it.

The key is to try and see.


This.

And itís hilarious to listen to a person whoís never competed in any sort of endurance race tell me about how I should eat to optimize my endurance performance.

I figured what works best for me through years of experience and experimentation.
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:18 AM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
my french neighbors eat this way...

I said, "you guys are ketogenic?"

they said, "no. we're just french"

(she is gluten intolerant, so it's basically all protein, cheese, veggies.)

it's an easy diet, especially if you do your own cooking.


I thought French people normally eat a ton of cheeses, cream sauces???
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:30 AM

And butter. French people love butter.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:35 AM

Science wins....until proven wrong
Posted By: craigj532

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Leaverite
Originally Posted By: afoaf
my french neighbors eat this way...

I said, "you guys are ketogenic?"

they said, "no. we're just french"

(she is gluten intolerant, so it's basically all protein, cheese, veggies.)

it's an easy diet, especially if you do your own cooking.


I thought French people normally eat a ton of cheeses, cream sauces???


And carbs. The only people who eat less keto than the French are Italians.
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
You can get better at burning fat for energy.

You have to deprive it of it's other source.

Some people do better on carbs.

If you do better on fat you think everyone should do it.

The key is to try and see.


This.

And itís hilarious to listen to a person whoís never competed in any sort of endurance race tell me about how I should eat to optimize my endurance performance.

I figured what works best for me through years of experience and experimentation.


From what I have always been taught is that your body first burns the fuel source that is the easiest available to convert into energy. Like muscle protein. Fat is more complex so it stays till last.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 05:36 AM

I think it's really good to try different shit out.

Some people eat and never think about.

I like to try shit out.

I think its good to drop your body fat every once in a while too.

Just to prime the system.

When I drop my body fat it like I have to go to war.

I can't be all calm and kick back about it,
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:21 AM

Do you walk around and keep that Peloton tablet with you wherever you go???
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:01 AM

Bilous Idiots
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Muscles
Originally Posted By: jkb
Originally Posted By: Muscles
The best diet I found is tracking calories and eating lots of fruits, veggies, and protein. Stay under 2000-2500 calories per day and give yourself a cheat day once a week and you'll lose weight. Buy a 10$ kitchen scale on amazon and measure your food.


Do you even Keto bro?

No.

In all seriousness, I try to keep my carbs to under 800 Calories per day.

My diet looks like this:
Breakfast: 4 eggs and piece of toast. About 450 Calories.
Lunch: 12 oz chicken with Salad with light sprinkling of oil and vinegar dressing.
Dinner: 12 oz meat of some kind and 8 oz serving of rice or pasta.

I don't usually drink alcohol and try to avoid red meat. I don't eat dairy.



Fun guy
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:08 PM

Question now is, what works better- Keto or Fat Shaming confused2
ban
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:09 PM

It's funny how the term "fat-adapted" shows up nowhere but on all the keto websites.

LOLz at ifall for taking the dogmatic approach.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Cutting complete food groups out of your diet is silly. Not all carbs are bad.

Everything in moderation.

Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.

Intermitent fasting, sure.



This is wrong. Its not instant but once someone is fat adapted they have just as much endurance as anyone else



roflmao

Clueless.

You can pretend that your body adopted using fat as fuel but there's no going around the fact that there's nothing that body can do to turn fat or protein into energy when needed quickly, as fast as carbs.

If you are into any kind of endurance activity, you will be burning way more calories than the body can retain from consuming fat or protein prior to excercise. Plus you will feel like shit because body has to work hard to digest it.

Another one of your science denying opinions that you learned from Joe Rogan.

Holy shit how long are you going to deny it?

Becoming fat-adapted doesn't happen overnight. And you're willfully denying the evidence of people, in articles I've posted and writing on this message board that people who are fat-adapted feel like shit WHEN using carbs as fuel. My body feels like its working much harder to digest anything when I'm eating lots of carbs


I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that "fat-adapted" is not a real thing.

roflmao

Yes, so not real

https://ultrarunning.com/features/health-and-nutrition/the-emerging-science-on-fat-adaptation/
https://ehe.osu.edu/directory/?id=volek.1

SCIENCE!
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace

You can get fat adapted all you want, eating a steak before an endurance activity and not consuming carbs will fŁck you up. Fact.

Oh yeah? You using personal experience again?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:47 PM

ifall is triggered.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 02:50 PM



Next time go to google scholar and/or pubmed and post some actual papers.

I was trained in science. A scientific claim should always be accompanied by a reference, otherwise you're either hypothesizing or just posting your opinion.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:00 PM

Follow-up: I will read some of Volek's papers, but my initial reaction is that his sample sizes are a little concerning. So far, the papers I've read have samples of ~20 and consist of elite athletes.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace

You can get fat adapted all you want, eating a steak before an endurance activity and not consuming carbs will fŁck you up. Fact.

Oh yeah? You using personal experience again?


Some people are still not going to function as well on fat even after they fat adapt.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:48 PM

Quote:
You can get fat adapted all you want, eating a steak before an endurance activity and not consuming carbs will fŁck you up. Fact.


Thatís not how it works and nobody is saying that. Typical FecalFag. Say something that nobody is saying and argue against that.

Quote:
Blaming obesity on carbs is also a straw man science denying bullshit.


https://www.medicaldaily.com/overeating-...bad-diet-330342

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-causes-of-weight-gain

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/good-carbs-bad-carbs#section1
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Follow-up: I will read some of Volek's papers, but my initial reaction is that his sample sizes are a little concerning. So far, the papers I've read have samples of ~20 and consist of elite athletes.


Arenít we talking about performance in endurance races here?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace

You can get fat adapted all you want, eating a steak before an endurance activity and not consuming carbs will fŁck you up. Fact.

Oh yeah? You using personal experience again?


Some people are still not going to function as well on fat even after they fat adapt.


Yes. And some people are.

A guy I train with is 45 years old, eats mass quantities of just about anything and is as lean as anyone Iíve ever seen.
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000


Next time go to google scholar and/or pubmed and post some actual papers.

I was trained in science.A scientific claim should always be accompanied by a reference, otherwise you're either hypothesizing or just posting your opinion.


monkey
Posted By: Sharkbiscuit

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: hal9000


Next time go to google scholar and/or pubmed and post some actual papers.

I was trained in science.A scientific claim should always be accompanied by a reference, otherwise you're either hypothesizing or just posting your opinion.


monkey


"I am skilled in the arts of war and military tactics, Sire!"

Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: afoaf
you kind lose interest in eating when you're deep in to it AND eating
carbs makes you feel like such a pile of shit that the emergent sense
of disgust reinforces your adherence to the keto menu.

green tea, fruits, and veggie snacks help keep you sane.

it can be expensive if you just try to red meat your way through each
day....even if you rotate chicken and fish, your grocery bill will likely
go up if you're overly reliant on animal proteins.

I know some people are not keen on them, but I like legumes mixed
in for slow carbs that don't put you in to a glycemic coma...good fiber
too.

I do best when I allow myself to be less stirict from friday night to sunday
morning. after a while you won't want go crush a california burrito and
some coldstones...you just kind of lose the appetite for that shit after
a few weeks...but you can drink (beer even) on the weekends and have
a burger and fries and it won't fark with your levels.

I don't know if I could swing the intermittent fasting like ifallalot does...I
work from home and cook daily which makes bored/stress snacking a
bugaboo. I heard someone mentioning that they drink bone broth during
the day along with coffee and water and that doesn't bork the fasting
cycle. I definitely like fasted cardio/weights in the morning and afternoon;
the benefits are visible.




hah


VAY CAY SHUN

you won't find cereal, beers, or tortillas in my pantry at home
Posted By: bigtuna

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:08 PM

I convinced myself to try Keto after going down a YouTube wormhole. Lasted two months - fully went through the adaptation period, I was strict. If you arenít, it isnít Keto, and if you do it for less than a month, it isnít Keto either - itís just suffering as your body doesnít adapt that fast.

I saw Voleks name come up. Another good one is Dom díagostino. Heís got like 3-4 joe organ podcasts packed with info.

Iím a slim guy, and wasnít even trying to lose weight. I was just eating what I considered maintenance. Turns out I regularly eat at a deficit because the pounds dropped. I lost about 20 pounds and weighed the same as I did in high school. And I could see five of my abs - Iíve literally never been able to see more than 3 in my entire life, even when I was like 10. This is without doing crazy ab exercises, just by reducing that layer of fat.

Yea, Iím a believer for purposes of fat reduction of if you just want to shock your system and try something new. Iím really not sure how much of it is legit for long term and I think there are a lot of things people have to be careful of and should do blood work to prevent missing, which I did not.

I was messing with intermittent fasting the whole time as well because it compliments Keto. I started doing longer fasts (just like 1-2 days) and my brain and body were like ďfvvvck thisĒ and had like a mini freak out. I came off the diet and still have a distaste for empty carbs. I used to eat massive bowls of pasta but now the sight and smell of bread is repulsive. Itís literally fvcking cardboard and I canít believe people eat it.

It was good to get a reality check about just how many carbs we eat, and how happy that makes the precancerous cells in our bodies and has increased the nations waist line ever since fat was villanized in the 80ís(?).

This is a good read https://robbwolf.com/2015/09/24/the-origin-and-future-of-the-ketogenic-diet-part-1/
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 04:39 PM

Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.

Controlling total calories is obviously the name of the game, but LCHF diets help to curb calorie cravings because there are less sugar spikes. Obviously replacing things like potatoes with vegetables create great calorie deficits as well.

LCHF diets work really well for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. I'm not really sure why there is so much hate for them. Probably for the same reason why people hate vegans and probably politically motivated
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.

Controlling total calories is obviously the name of the game, but LCHF diets help to curb calorie cravings because there are less sugar spikes. Obviously replacing things like potatoes with vegetables create great calorie deficits as well.

LCHF diets work really well for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. I'm not really sure why there is so much hate for them. Probably for the same reason why people hate vegans and probably politically motivated


There's no hate.

It's when you start mouthing off at people who eat carbs and blame obesity on carbs and claim that endurance athletes don't need carbs and other science denying things you've said in this thread.

Stop preaching.

Ketotards = Vegans = CrossFitards = Jehovah Witnesses

Just don't.

There's more than one way to skin the cat.
If you think eating red meat is the pinnacle of health, go right for it.

But seriously, have you tried DMT?

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:15 PM

The drug or the steroid?

I haven't taken any steroids, but I'm pretty sure I had some DMT back in my raver days
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:17 PM

I don't even know what it means, I just know it's a Joe Rogan meme. smile2

I'm pretty sure DMT is not even keto kosher.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.

Controlling total calories is obviously the name of the game, but LCHF diets help to curb calorie cravings because there are less sugar spikes. Obviously replacing things like potatoes with vegetables create great calorie deficits as well.

LCHF diets work really well for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. I'm not really sure why there is so much hate for them. Probably for the same reason why people hate vegans and probably politically motivated


My criticism comes from the keto/low carb types who argue that there is some sort of metabolic hack with keto that supercedes caloric intake. They say idiotic straw man tripe like ďso 1000 calories of Oreos has the same effect on my health as 1000 calories of salmon and broccoli?!Ē and that you donít need to worry about calories. Then some take it a step further and talk about adding tablespoons of butter and coconut oil into your coffee as a weight loss tool. Itís misleading information that does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.
Talking up the indirect benefits, that I mentioned in my very first post on this thread and the same ones that you also mentioned, is legitimate. All of which lead to less calorie intake.
I do agree that there are politics involved in the LCHF hate. The nutrition pyramid was written by grain and dairy councils, which is how we ended up with idiotic recs like 6-11 servings of grain per day and crappy polyunsaturated fats. All of those federally subsidized excess grain and seed crops need a home. Those same industries are also major contributors to the American heart association and several other health related non-profits.
Just like with everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle computer
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:26 PM

Bro, cholesterol is not even real.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Follow-up: I will read some of Volek's papers, but my initial reaction is that his sample sizes are a little concerning. So far, the papers I've read have samples of ~20 and consist of elite athletes.


Arenít we talking about performance in endurance races here?


No, we're talking about how the keto diet is dumb and how it's just the new iteration of the paleo craze, it's just a trend, and it will fade into the white noise just like all the others.

One thing that much of the research ignores (Dr. Jeff Volek completely ignored this concept in one of his review papers) is that, while many health problems can be associated with excess carbohydrate consumption, we also live way longer than our ancestors did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Follow-up: I will read some of Volek's papers, but my initial reaction is that his sample sizes are a little concerning. So far, the papers I've read have samples of ~20 and consist of elite athletes.


Arenít we talking about performance in endurance races here?


No, we're talking about how the keto diet is dumb and how it's just the new iteration of the paleo craze, it's just a trend, and it will fade into the white noise just like all the others.

One thing that much of the research ignores (Dr. Jeff Volek completely ignored this concept in one of his review papers) is that, while many health problems can be associated with excess carbohydrate consumption, we also live way longer than our ancestors did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.


Oh. Ok.

Yeah, any ďdietĒ with a name is dumb.

Thatís how I judge them and itís served me well so far.

All Iím saying is that when I eat a high carb diet I get hungry quicker (and more severely) and end up eating more.

When I eat low carb I have just as much energy, no loss in performance and I eat less and therefore maintain a lighter weight (which actually helps performance in surfing and other stuff).

Even die hard keto kreeps who do endurance races will carb up in the days leading up to a race and during the race itself. Itís the training cycle that gets the keto treatment.

Periodization...
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
I don't even know what it means, I just know it's a Joe Rogan meme. smile2

I'm pretty sure DMT is not even keto kosher.






Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
I don't even know what it means, I just know it's a Joe Rogan meme. smile2

I'm pretty sure DMT is not even keto kosher.

Yeah I saw it today too. I can't listen to all 3 hours of Rogan 3 times a week plus the same amount of The Fighter and the Kid to keep up with it all
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:44 PM

Quote:
did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.

Sanitation/solid waste disposal probably has the biggest impact in human lifespan. Followed by antibiotics and other medical advances.
Grains are certainly the most efficient way to feed a large population. Most of human history would have loved to have an endless supply of cheap calories. Although aside from being able to easily fulfill the caloric intake required for survival, most grains are relatively low in nutritional value.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.

Sanitation/solid waste disposal probably has the biggest impact in human lifespan. Followed by antibiotics and other medical advances.
Grains are certainly the most efficient way to feed a large population. Most of human history would have loved to have an endless supply of cheap calories. Although aside from being able to easily fulfill the caloric intake required for survival, most grains are relatively low in nutritional value.

Bingo

Humans have ate lots and lots of grain for at least 10k years. The spikes in lifespan didn't happen until recently.

The three most important industries for modern civilization are the trash, sewer+water, and electricity.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.



Full disclosure: I'm all for reducing the amount of carbohydrates in the human diet, especially processed carbs and simple sugars. I think we should reduce our consumption of saturated fats, I think we should get enough fiber in our diets, we should eat lean proteins, or plant-derived proteins, and we should eat more vegetables.

I could very well be proven wrong about keto diets, and they could, in the long-run, be proven to have benefits beyond short-term weight loss.

The problem I have with all the keto talk is that people are rushing headlong into a fad that isn't well-studied and lacks information in the scientific literature to support it as a long-term, healthy, sustainable lifestyle. There are several health concerns associated with keto and hopefully biochemistry can provide ample evidence so scientists and doctors can make sound recommendations. Several studies have also concluded that keto isn't a sustainable diet, and the weight-loss benefits diminish over time.

The problem I have with guys like Jeff Volek is that they have too much of a dog in the fight. Volek is an avowed keto supporter, is trying to sell stuff (https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek) and seems to have a conclusion in search of a testable hypothesis. It's odd that all of his papers come to the same conclusion, isn't it? He also is a generally healthy person (according to what I've read) who has never suffered any major metabolic disease.

I'm sure I have more to say but I want to read a few more papers first. I'm starting with these:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/86/2/276/4633078
https://leblognutrition.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/764-full.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy

Oh. Ok.

Yeah, any ďdietĒ with a name is dumb.

Thatís how I judge them and itís served me well so far.

All Iím saying is that when I eat a high carb diet I get hungry quicker (and more severely) and end up eating more.

When I eat low carb I have just as much energy, no loss in performance and I eat less and therefore maintain a lighter weight (which actually helps performance in surfing and other stuff).

Even die hard keto kreeps who do endurance races will carb up in the days leading up to a race and during the race itself. Itís the training cycle that gets the keto treatment.

Periodization...


Those are all fair points, and I did clarify, in a previous reply, that I'm not against reducing carbohydrate intake, especially processed carbs, and simple sugars.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.


Sanitation/solid waste disposal probably has the biggest impact in human lifespan. Followed by antibiotics and other medical advances.

Grains are certainly the most efficient way to feed a large population. Most of human history would have loved to have an endless supply of cheap calories. Although aside from being able to easily fulfill the caloric intake required for survival, most grains are relatively low in nutritional value.



Fair points too. I didn't say that food was THE biggest factor, just one factor.

I still say that most of our health problems associated with food are related to three things: quantity, and microbiome, and genetics.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 06:59 PM

Jeff Volek roflmao

https://www.truehealthunlimited.com/blog/lowcarbapproach


I'm waiting for him to say cholesterol and heart attacks aren't even real.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000

Fair points too. I didn't say that food was THE biggest factor, just one factor.

I still say that most of our health problems associated with food are related to three things: quantity, and microbiome, and genetics.


Oh shit, you done did it now.

Cue more science denying.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649

Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.

Controlling total calories is obviously the name of the game, but LCHF diets help to curb calorie cravings because there are less sugar spikes. Obviously replacing things like potatoes with vegetables create great calorie deficits as well.

LCHF diets work really well for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. I'm not really sure why there is so much hate for them. Probably for the same reason why people hate vegans and probably politically motivated


My criticism comes from the keto/low carb types who argue that there is some sort of metabolic hack with keto that supercedes caloric intake. They say idiotic straw man tripe like ďso 1000 calories of Oreos has the same effect on my health as 1000 calories of salmon and broccoli?!Ē and that you donít need to worry about calories. Then some take it a step further and talk about adding tablespoons of butter and coconut oil into your coffee as a weight loss tool. Itís misleading information that does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.
Talking up the indirect benefits, that I mentioned in my very first post on this thread and the same ones that you also mentioned, is legitimate. All of which lead to less calorie intake.
I do agree that there are politics involved in the LCHF hate. The nutrition pyramid was written by grain and dairy councils, which is how we ended up with idiotic recs like 6-11 servings of grain per day and crappy polyunsaturated fats. All of those federally subsidized excess grain and seed crops need a home. Those same industries are also major contributors to the American heart association and several other health related non-profits.
Just like with everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle computer



Another criticism I have with people jumping on a keto bandwagon is that this diet was developed specifically for people with either neurologic or metabolic disorders.

What you end up with is generally young, healthy, active people eating a calorie-restriction diet, so, of course they're going to lose weight. Beware sample size and lack of control groups.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Fair points too. I didn't say that food was THE biggest factor, just one factor.

I still say that most of our health problems associated with food are related to three things: quantity, and microbiome, and genetics.


Oh shit, you done did it now.

Cue more science denying.


I'm being serious..... I just belly-laughed at that for two minutes.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:11 PM

Oh, another problem I have with keto is that much of the weight loss is water weight, since you lose a significant amount of water during glycogenolysis.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Oh, another problem I have with keto is that much of the weight loss is water weight, since you lose a significant amount of water during glycogenolysis.

Early weight loss is water weight. But people aren't losing 50-100 lbs of water.
Posted By: Ch-ch-ch-cheeeeeto

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:16 PM

I think there's some truth to the "macronutrients magically supersede calories" meme. Hear me out.

Weight loss or gain isn't actually calories in vs. calories out. It's more accurately calories absorbed vs. calories burned. In other words, (a) the human digestive system doesn't run at optimal efficiency, and probably varies in its absorbtion abilities between individuals; and (b) certain types of energy-spiking foods probably lead to increased burn rates through mechanisms like NEAT and changed sleep patterns.

Now, scientifically, I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is a hypothesis distilled from observed empirical evidence: I did a LCHF ketogenic diet for about 18 months while meticulously tracking food and exercise.

My normal BMR is about 2800 calories. During the keto diet, I ate 3100-3400 calories per day with a breakdown of 60-70% fat, 20-30% protein, 10-20% carbs. I lost weight and could not get above a certain weight threshold, regardless of extra lifting or meals. I slept less, got heartburn/GERD more, and fidgeted more.

Then I added white rice back into the equation and cut the fat, to a 2600-3000 calorie, 30/30/40ish diet. I gained ten pounds more or less immediately with no other changes.

Currently I'm eating even less, with more carbs - not tracking now, but I would estimate 2400-2800 calories. Weight is staying put despite heavy surf sessions.

So, either I don't absorb fat well, or my body upregulates and increases metabolic function when I eat an overload of it.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Fair points too. I didn't say that food was THE biggest factor, just one factor.

I still say that most of our health problems associated with food are related to three things: quantity, and microbiome, and genetics.


Oh shit, you done did it now.

Cue more science denying.





dancing
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Oh, another problem I have with keto is that much of the weight loss is water weight, since you lose a significant amount of water during glycogenolysis.

Early weight loss is water weight. But people aren't losing 50-100 lbs of water.



Right, but they're also eating fewer calories, being more attentive to their eating habits, and working out. You can't have all these concomitant variables and then attribute the effect to just one of the variables.


Also, this from the Science journal review:
Quote:
Moreover, many other aspects of the American diet changed in the past 40 years, including increased portion sizes, greater consumption of foods away from home, and more extreme food processing. At the same time, labor- saving technology and the digital age have led to declines in occupational and recreational physical activity, and budget shortfalls in schools have led to curtailments in physical education classes, recess time, and after-school recreation opportunities.


You can't just list all these variables and then say America is fat because of its high carb diet. He also ignored genetics and microbiome.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Fair points too. I didn't say that food was THE biggest factor, just one factor.

I still say that most of our health problems associated with food are related to three things: quantity, and microbiome, and genetics.


Oh shit, you done did it now.

Cue more science denying.





dancing


Well, when you post irrefutable scientific evidence like memes, I guess you've got me backed into a corner.
Posted By: noone

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 08:48 PM

nana Love it!
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Ch-ch-ch-cheeeeeto


Weight loss or gain isn't actually calories in vs. calories out. It's more accurately calories absorbed vs. calories burned. In other words, (a) the human digestive system doesn't run at optimal efficiency, and probably varies in its absorbtion abilities between individuals; and (b) certain types of energy-spiking foods probably lead to increased burn rates through mechanisms like NEAT and changed sleep patterns.



This seems to be contested territory but science moving towards this position.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 09:55 PM

Jenna Jameson before & after keto

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br5yC1jhPKx/...wFP891i7QwIDuFs
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 09:57 PM

Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat... roflmao roflmao roflmao
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat... roflmao roflmao roflmao


Science is infallible bro. The sun revolves around the earth.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat... roflmao roflmao roflmao


Science is infallible bro. The sun revolves around the flat earth that is protected by warlocks and an ice wall.


Fxd
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/29/18 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat... roflmao roflmao roflmao


Science is infallible bro. The sun revolves around the flat earth that is protected by warlocks and an ice wall.


Fxd


And donít forget about the giant trees theory...

Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback


holy shit...could you imagine if you married a porn star
and then she blew the fk up like that!??!

also....plastic surgery is so ugggggh.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 04:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat... roflmao roflmao roflmao


Science is infallible bro. The sun revolves around the earth.



Nobody ever said science was infallible. Scientists acknowledge their mistakes, learn from them, and learn to accept new theories when presented with scientific evidence.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 04:41 AM

Then "Scientific evidence" is just a persons opinion with a graph or pie chart.....
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 04:58 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Then "Scientific evidence" is just a persons opinion with a graph or pie chart.....

Yeah, science is dumb and biased. Better to believe Instagram posts of porn stars, thatís legit shaka
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 05:06 AM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: laidback
Then "Scientific evidence" is just a persons opinion with a graph or pie chart.....

Yeah, science is dumb and biased. Better to believe Instagram posts of porn stars, thatís legit shaka


obvi.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat...


Yeah, still works.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 11:59 AM

Quote:
Weight loss or gain isn't actually calories in vs. calories out. It's more accurately calories absorbed vs. calories burned. In other words, (a) the human digestive system doesn't run at optimal efficiency, and probably varies in its absorbtion abilities between individuals; and (b) certain types of energy-spiking foods probably lead to increased burn rates through mechanisms like NEAT and changed sleep patterns.

Good post, and I think there is a lot of truth to it and that itís not just CICO that matters. Carbs are probably more efficiently absorbed and stored as fat when in excess. There is also probably an optimal macronutrient ratio that allows for maximum gain and retention of muscle mass when gaining or losing weight.

Quote:
Then I added white rice back into the equation and cut the fat, to a 2600-3000 calorie, 30/30/40ish diet. I gained ten pounds more or less immediately with no other changes

I trust your tracking, but are you sure that some of this wasnít water weight? And/Or that you didnít gain muscle? Did your waist circumference go up? Adding back carbs will almost certainly spike water weight if youíve been keto for a while.
Either way, itís important to look at changes in body composition as a whole (%body fat, waist circumference) as opposed to just weight alone, which is something that most donít realize when they are trying to lose weight.
Posted By: Black

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 04:18 PM

Lets face it, all you need is tacos & beer
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 06:57 PM

I like the food diet. Understanding that the provenance of calories makes no difference as long as you are getting the nutrients you need, and that when you consume these calories has absolutely no effect on nutrient absorption or weightloss/gain.

It's pretty simple. Eat when your hungry and try to steer clear of processed foods.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
Weight loss or gain isn't actually calories in vs. calories out. It's more accurately calories absorbed vs. calories burned. In other words, (a) the human digestive system doesn't run at optimal efficiency, and probably varies in its absorbtion abilities between individuals; and (b) certain types of energy-spiking foods probably lead to increased burn rates through mechanisms like NEAT and changed sleep patterns.

Good post, and I think there is a lot of truth to it and that itís not just CICO that matters. Carbs are probably more efficiently absorbed and stored as fat when in excess. There is also probably an optimal macronutrient ratio that allows for maximum gain and retention of muscle mass when gaining or losing weight.

Quote:
Then I added white rice back into the equation and cut the fat, to a 2600-3000 calorie, 30/30/40ish diet. I gained ten pounds more or less immediately with no other changes

I trust your tracking, but are you sure that some of this wasnít water weight? And/Or that you didnít gain muscle? Did your waist circumference go up? Adding back carbs will almost certainly spike water weight if youíve been keto for a while.
Either way, itís important to look at changes in body composition as a whole (%body fat, waist circumference) as opposed to just weight alone, which is something that most donít realize when they are trying to lose weight.


Best to settle of a set of macros, wait three weeks to see changes and make minor adjustments in three week increments. "Minimum Effective Dose" When your macro changes case to drive results, make minor changes again.

Trying to measure absorption is impossible to do accurately can change regularly due to things like body temperature, inflammation etc.
Posted By: Ch-ch-ch-cheeeeeto

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
Weight loss or gain isn't actually calories in vs. calories out. It's more accurately calories absorbed vs. calories burned. In other words, (a) the human digestive system doesn't run at optimal efficiency, and probably varies in its absorbtion abilities between individuals; and (b) certain types of energy-spiking foods probably lead to increased burn rates through mechanisms like NEAT and changed sleep patterns.

Good post, and I think there is a lot of truth to it and that itís not just CICO that matters. Carbs are probably more efficiently absorbed and stored as fat when in excess. There is also probably an optimal macronutrient ratio that allows for maximum gain and retention of muscle mass when gaining or losing weight.

Quote:
Then I added white rice back into the equation and cut the fat, to a 2600-3000 calorie, 30/30/40ish diet. I gained ten pounds more or less immediately with no other changes

I trust your tracking, but are you sure that some of this wasnít water weight? And/Or that you didnít gain muscle? Did your waist circumference go up? Adding back carbs will almost certainly spike water weight if youíve been keto for a while.
Either way, itís important to look at changes in body composition as a whole (%body fat, waist circumference) as opposed to just weight alone, which is something that most donít realize when they are trying to lose weight.


I definitely gained muscle, and my waist circumference went up. I doubt it was solely a spike in water weight - it's been about a year since I quit the keto diet and I've kept the weight on. It may have been an initial spike in water weight followed by a decrease in the water weight plus an increase in lean body mass - but when I say "immediately" I mean over a 3-6 week period, so it could have been real mass the whole time.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
I like the food diet. Understanding that the provenance of calories makes no difference as long as you are getting the nutrients you need, and that when you consume these calories has absolutely no effect on nutrient absorption or weightloss/gain.

It's pretty simple. Eat when your hungry and try to steer clear of processed foods.


/thread
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/30/18 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
I like the food diet. Understanding that the provenance of calories makes no difference as long as you are getting the nutrients you need, and that when you consume these calories has absolutely no effect on nutrient absorption or weightloss/gain.

It's pretty simple. Eat when your hungry and try to steer clear of processed foods.


/thread



Yup.
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 01:35 AM

If you want to lose weight, eat less

All this masturbation is about trying to avoid this

Reduce portion sizes

Skip meals (breakfast is easier for most people)

You can really eat whatever you want as long as you donít eat very much
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Eat when your hungry

Horrendous advice.

That's full-on HAES bullshit.
Posted By: aldo1

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Eat when your hungry

Horrendous advice.

That's full-on HAES bullshit.



The key is to stop eating when satiated or full. Super sized fast food and massive portions are the norm in most western countries.
Also drink a bunch of water and skip breakfast(intermittent fasting).
Reduce processed carbs to minimal levels.
Sugar is toxic. Avoid if possible, including limiting natural sugars.

Keto is great for big weight loss numbers if needed but not good as a long term life style. Moderation is better.
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: aldo1
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Eat when your hungry

Horrendous advice.

That's full-on HAES bullshit.



The key is to stop eating when satiated or full. Super sized fast food and massive portions are the norm in most western countries.
Also drink a bunch of water and skip breakfast(intermittent fasting).
Reduce processed carbs to minimal levels.
Sugar is toxic. Avoid if possible, including limiting natural sugars.

Keto is great for big weight loss numbers if needed but not good as a long term life style. Moderation is better.


Really stop eating before you are full

Full generally = overeating

Iím trying to gain a few lbs now and it feels disgusting to stuff myself
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat...


Yeah, still works.



lol no
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: aldo1
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Eat when your hungry

Horrendous advice.

That's full-on HAES bullshit.



The key is to stop eating when satiated or full. Super sized fast food and massive portions are the norm in most western countries.
Also drink a bunch of water and skip breakfast(intermittent fasting).
Reduce processed carbs to minimal levels.
Sugar is toxic. Avoid if possible, including limiting natural sugars.

Keto is great for big weight loss numbers if needed but not good as a long term life style. Moderation is better.

This is wonderful advice.
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.

I do way way way way way better exercising with an empty stomach compared to eating before. I may feel hungry at some point, but there is no change in my endurance or energy level at any point
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 03:13 PM

I guess everyone is different.

I have found priming my body with about 200 cals 2-3 hrs prior to any AM surf session or run makes 100% difference for me.

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
I guess everyone is different.

I have found priming my body with about 200 cals 2-3 hrs prior to any AM surf session or run makes 100% difference for me.


Yeah I think we're all guilty of projecting what works for us as individuals onto others when talking about performance or nutrition.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat...


Yeah, still works.



lol no


Science denying circle jerk - COMPLETE
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).


So if you eat nothing and than burn 7000 calories in 3 hours, makes for better performance?
Posted By: aldo1

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 04:55 PM

I like to skip breakfast most days but will grab a bite when hungry. Works for me.
After a long surf I need something to eat for sure but generally donít get in for an early session except on the weekend.
It gives the body a chance to purge all the crap. Drink plenty of water at night and in the morning.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 05:06 PM

Well, I've always said the erBB can argue about a ham sandwich.

In this case, literally.

Do I eat the ham between two pieces of lettuce or do I put that between two slices of bread?

Page 5, here we go.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Remember when in the 70's when science said eat less fat...


Yeah, still works.



lol no


Science denying circle jerk - COMPLETE
roflmao
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).


So if you eat nothing and than burn 7000 calories in 3 hours, makes for better performance?

Yes

That's how body fat gets burnt
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 05:32 PM

Your three basic food groups



Any meal, any time!

facelick
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
One thing that much of the research ignores (Dr. Jeff Volek completely ignored this concept in one of his review papers) is that, while many health problems can be associated with excess carbohydrate consumption, we also live way longer than our ancestors did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.


Where is the love for public sanitation (sewer system), aqueducts (clean water), other civil works, and a marked decrease in Biblical wrath?

PS

Just had a home-made truffle someone brought in. A nice counter balance to the espresso still lingering on my tongue from a few minutes back.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
I guess everyone is different.

I have found priming my body with about 200 cals 2-3 hrs prior to any AM surf session or run makes 100% difference for me.



I was the same...

...until I drastically lowered my carb intake....
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 06:47 PM

I'm learning a lot:

personal anecdotal evidence (sample size of 1) > science
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).


So if you eat nothing and than burn 7000 calories in 3 hours, makes for better performance?


7000 calories? In 3 hours?

Lol.

But to answer your question (at least the time aspect of it) I find that I donít need to consume anything (water or sugar) for any workout up to two hours. After that Iíll need at least some kind of sport drink or maybe a GU.

This is the case whether I start my workout in a fasted state or not.

Performance is still better if I start fasted.

I completed an ironman without eating anything on race day until 2 1/2 hour into the race.
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


Do you think 50,000 yrs ago humans were eating regularly spaced meals?

Fasting is totally normal
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 07:39 PM

You have to be skeptical of nutrition/ fitness ďscienceĒ

They always take random lumps off the couch for their studies and then have them do temporary diet/exercise changes

The short term adaptations are not very relevant for people who exercise regularly and watch what they eat over the long term
Posted By: casa_mugrienta

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


Do you think 50,000 yrs ago humans were eating regularly spaced meals?

Fasting is totally normal


And a little over 200 years ago the human sleep pattern was biphasic.

I have no idea how humans ate 50,000 years ago. What evidence do we have other than speculation?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).


So if you eat nothing and than burn 7000 calories in 3 hours, makes for better performance?

Yes

That's how body fat gets burnt


roflmao

It's not physically possible for body to convert fat into that much energy over a few hours.

You would bonk HARD.

More science denying Rogan regurgitation.



Fvcking clueless.
Posted By: drunjk

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 08:45 PM

the keto diet is a comedy that ends in tragedy
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: aldo1


The key is skip breakfast...(intermittent fasting).


Disagree, and disagree about the meal skipping in general.

http://time.com/4786181/skipping-breakfast-health-benefits/

There is lots of scientific research suggesting you're fvcking with your body's ability to control glucose and many suggestions you're increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes long term. And the correlations are interesting as well.

Was going to link to the actual research but the first thing I got when I googled was this:
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/skip-...isk-1/896600930
which is a pretty good summary with recent research.

Aside from that the body needs calories and nutrition to function. It's common sense.

Your body will tell you this when you compare any sort of AM exercise a few hours after eating a small meal vs eating nothing.


I have 10 years of my own personal documented data on exercise output (cycling power (watts), running (pace/anaerobic threshold) and swimming (distance/time) that clearly shows (in my own personal experience) that my performance is best in a fasted state at about 2 hours after waking up.

No breakfast = significantly better performance (in my case).


So if you eat nothing and than burn 7000 calories in 3 hours, makes for better performance?


7000 calories? In 3 hours?

Lol.

But to answer your question (at least the time aspect of it) I find that I donít need to consume anything (water or sugar) for any workout up to two hours. After that Iíll need at least some kind of sport drink or maybe a GU.

This is the case whether I start my workout in a fasted state or not.

Performance is still better if I start fasted.

I completed an ironman without eating anything on race day until 2 1/2 hour into the race.


LOL all you want, It's not uncommon for cyclist to burn 6-7000 calories on a mountain stage in a race.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: drunjk
the keto diet is a comedy that ends in tragedy


Yup.

The tragedy comes when your liver, kidneys, arteries and your gut tell you to fŁck off after years of being abused by a diet fad that you picked up from some podcast.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Well, I've always said the erBB can argue about a ham sandwich.

In this case, literally.

Do I eat the ham between two pieces of lettuce or do I put that between two slices of bread?

Page 5, here we go.



Are we talking white bread or fair trade sandpaper?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
I'm learning a lot:

personal anecdotal evidence (sample size of 1) > science




This.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: drunjk
the keto diet is a comedy that ends in tragedy


yes but if you allow enough time to pass it becomes comedy once again. It's a win-win.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: ghostshaper
I'm learning a lot:

personal anecdotal evidence (sample size of 1) > science



Actually, youíre missing the point entirely.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta


And a little over 200 years ago the human sleep pattern was biphasic.

I have no idea how humans ate 50,000 years ago. What evidence do we have other than speculation?


This kind.

That kind.

Paywall stuff too.

Lecture also.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta


And a little over 200 years ago the human sleep pattern was biphasic.

I have no idea how humans ate 50,000 years ago. What evidence do we have other than speculation?


This kind.

That kind.

Paywall stuff too.

Lecture also.


Thanks for posting that Nature review. I'm stoked to read it.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 10:08 PM

Quote:
LOL all you want, It's not uncommon for cyclist to burn 6-7000 calories on a mountain stage in a race.


And whoís saying that people donít fuel DURING long races with carbs?

Nobody.

Again with your typical m.o.

Say something ridiculous that nobody is claiming and then argue against that.

And, no. Nobody is burning 7,000 calories in three hours. Nobody.

TDF riders (climbers in particular) are very light (130-140 lbs on average, if that). Itís basically physically impossible for a person that size to burn much more 1,000 per hour.

Science.

Oh and while weíre on the subject of cyclists....

https://www.velonews.com/2013/07/news/fueling-the-tour-qa-with-saxo-chef-hannah-grant_295465

Quote:
VN: The job is cooking, but itís very different from working in a restaurant. Can you talk about some of the differences?

HG: First of all, I set the menu. I mean, they can request stuff, the riders, if they want. Iíll note it and Iíll do it if itís possible. But, obviously, then thereís rules to how to assemble the menu. Todayís a rest day, so we do a low-carb lunch for them. Theyíre not going so far, they just want to keep their legs going, so we donít want to fill them up too much. And we donít want to go too hard on the carbs so they donít gain weight.

Then we have a philosophy of using lots of vegetables, proteins, and cold-pressed fats, and then we use a lot of gluten-free alternatives. So we try to encourage the riders to try other things than just pasta and bread. I do gluten-free breads as well.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 12/31/18 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
LOL all you want, It's not uncommon for cyclist to burn 6-7000 calories on a mountain stage in a race.


And whoís saying that people donít fuel DURING long races with carbs?

Nobody.

Again with your typical m.o.

Say something ridiculous that nobody is claiming and then argue against that.

And, no. Nobody is burning 7,000 calories in three hours. Nobody.

TDF riders (climbers in particular) are very light (130-140 lbs on average, if that). Itís basically physically impossible for a person that size to burn much more 1,000 per hour.

Science.

Oh and while weíre on the subject of cyclists....

https://www.velonews.com/2013/07/news/fueling-the-tour-qa-with-saxo-chef-hannah-grant_295465

Quote:
VN: The job is cooking, but itís very different from working in a restaurant. Can you talk about some of the differences?

HG: First of all, I set the menu. I mean, they can request stuff, the riders, if they want. Iíll note it and Iíll do it if itís possible. But, obviously, then thereís rules to how to assemble the menu. Todayís a rest day, so we do a low-carb lunch for them. Theyíre not going so far, they just want to keep their legs going, so we donít want to fill them up too much. And we donít want to go too hard on the carbs so they donít gain weight.

Then we have a philosophy of using lots of vegetables, proteins, and cold-pressed fats, and then we use a lot of gluten-free alternatives. So we try to encourage the riders to try other things than just pasta and bread. I do gluten-free breads as well.


So how's that "low carb" diet then, if you're consuming 30 grams of carbs an hour when racing? LOL

And yes, TDF climbers can burn over 6000 calories on some stages.

Whether it's over 3,4 or 5 hours is irrelevant, there's no way you can do that on a low carb, keto diet. Fact.

The point is that they have to consume 6000 - 9000 calories a day and a very small percentage of that is fat and protein because its digestion taxes the body and it's not an efficient fuel for endurance.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
LOL all you want, It's not uncommon for cyclist to burn 6-7000 calories on a mountain stage in a race.


And whoís saying that people donít fuel DURING long races with carbs?

Nobody.

Again with your typical m.o.

Say something ridiculous that nobody is claiming and then argue against that.

And, no. Nobody is burning 7,000 calories in three hours. Nobody.

TDF riders (climbers in particular) are very light (130-140 lbs on average, if that). Itís basically physically impossible for a person that size to burn much more 1,000 per hour.

Science.

Oh and while weíre on the subject of cyclists....

https://www.velonews.com/2013/07/news/fueling-the-tour-qa-with-saxo-chef-hannah-grant_295465

Quote:
VN: The job is cooking, but itís very different from working in a restaurant. Can you talk about some of the differences?

HG: First of all, I set the menu. I mean, they can request stuff, the riders, if they want. Iíll note it and Iíll do it if itís possible. But, obviously, then thereís rules to how to assemble the menu. Todayís a rest day, so we do a low-carb lunch for them. Theyíre not going so far, they just want to keep their legs going, so we donít want to fill them up too much. And we donít want to go too hard on the carbs so they donít gain weight.

Then we have a philosophy of using lots of vegetables, proteins, and cold-pressed fats, and then we use a lot of gluten-free alternatives. So we try to encourage the riders to try other things than just pasta and bread. I do gluten-free breads as well.


So how's that "low carb" diet then, if you're consuming 30 grams of carbs an hour when racing? LOL

And yes, TDF climbers can burn over 6000 calories on some stages.

Whether it's over 3,4 or 5 hours is irrelevant, there's no way you can do that on a low carb, keto diet. Fact.

The point is that they have to consume 6000 - 9000 calories a day and a very small percentage of that is fat and protein because its digestion taxes the body and it's not an efficient fuel for endurance.


Are you fooking retarded?

Quote myself from above...

ďAnd whoís saying that people donít fuel DURING long races with carbs?

Nobody.Ē

Idiot.

And no. Nobody is burning 7,000 calories in three hours. Itís not humanly possible for someone with a pro bike racerís build to do that.

What these cyclists and triathletes and ultra marathon runners are doing now is eating a carb restricted diet but are fueling with carbs as needed during training and races. Their carb needs are in many cases lower during races than they were when their regular daily carb intake (outside of training and racing) was higher.

Idiot.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 02:35 AM

So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99

Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99



Youíre stupid.
Posted By: Leaverite

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:22 AM

PEDS help out Fecals ilk a lot more than Carbs.
Posted By: SurfFuerte

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:33 AM

can we talk about some good old fashioned COMMON FRIGGIN SENSE?

as always, there is wisdom in the old sayings... here in spain, when diet questions arise, inevitably someone throws it out to end the conversation...

"menos plato, mas zapato".

ask your old ungle google translate if you don't already know.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99




I'll hypothesize that, at some point, you run up against biophysics. There are limits to everything. The speed at which your body metabolizes fat is likely not fast enough to keep up with cellular ATP demand. If your cells can't produce metabolites to fuel oxidative phosphorylation, you'll likely: gas out or experience failure, start tapping into glycogen stores, start breaking down muscle tissue, or probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't thought of.

Long story short, elite athletes need carbs.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: SurfFuerte


"menos plato, mas zapato".



applause2 cheers
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99




I'll hypothesize that, at some point, you run up against biophysics. There are limits to everything. The speed at which your body metabolizes fat is likely not fast enough to keep up with cellular ATP demand. If your cells can't produce metabolites to fuel oxidative phosphorylation, you'll likely: gas out or experience failure, start tapping into glycogen stores, start breaking down muscle tissue, or probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't thought of.

Long story short, elite athletes need carbs.

When in the training process? During competition or before?

These elite athletes are near-starvation the day before competition.

Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99




I'll hypothesize that, at some point, you run up against biophysics. There are limits to everything. The speed at which your body metabolizes fat is likely not fast enough to keep up with cellular ATP demand. If your cells can't produce metabolites to fuel oxidative phosphorylation, you'll likely: gas out or experience failure, start tapping into glycogen stores, start breaking down muscle tissue, or probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't thought of.

Long story short, elite athletes need carbs.


Donít forget there are also limitations to the amount of carbs one can process in a certain amount of time, around 150-200 calories per hour, but you can burn up to 1,000 and hour (not 2,333 like turdfacial claims).

So itís a losing proposition.

If you eat a carb restricted diet during your training cycle your body will be better at going to your fat for fuel. Being that you can only process 200 calories of surgar per hour and burn 1,000 you can make up some of the deficit by more effectively burning fat.

Fecalfucker keeps arguaing an either/or scenario that nobody is even talking about.

Yes, endurance athletes need carbs. Duh. But some of us do better and have a lower dependence on carb fueling during TRAINING and racing (see that fuckface? Training....) when we eat our meals with a severe restriction of carbs.

What fecal doesnít understand (because he has no fooking clue what heís talking about) is there are two separate yet related issues at play.

1. Nutrition (thatís eating your meals).

2. Fueling (thatís what is consumed during training (runs, bikes, swims) and racing.

Fueling is, for the most part, all carbs (some of us add some protein or amino acids for the long stuff).
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99



Science, bitch....

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm

Quote:
Elite endurance athletes who eat very few carbohydrates burned more than twice as much fat as high-carb athletes during maximum exertion and prolonged exercise in a new study -- the highest fat-burning rates under these conditions ever seen by researchers.


Oh, and your TDF riders do not consume 5,000 calories on the bike during the stage. Thatís what they eat for each day that they ride.

You canít consume 5,000 in the amount of time they are riding without vomiting.

You really donít have any idea what youíre talking about here. You brought a knife to a gun fight.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 05:10 PM

I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.


Again, I think you are not understanding the separation between nutrition and fueling.

It is rapidly becaoming the norm for elite athletes to follow a low carb nutrition plan.

And as I have stated here already a few times, during training and competition output they are fueling with carbs (but the carb intake needs are less for the athletes who follow a low carb nutrition plan).

I think once you actually understand what Iím saying (and what the science is saying) youíll come around.

For the record, a strict keto diet isnít really something thatís sustainable long term and very few people (nobody really) follows strict keto all the time.

Personally Iíve never done any kind of ďdietĒ. I just donít eat very many carbs and since I got more consistent about it Iíve gone from 205lbs. (14 months ago) to 180 today (and Iíve been at 180 for that last 4 months).

That ainít water weight.

When I cut for fights I cut down to 169 and thatís all water.

I rarely train for over 2 hours these days so fueling during runs/bikes, etc. isnít necessary, in part because I eat a low carb diet. When I ate a high carb diet I couldnít run for more than an hour without needing fuel. Now itís two hours.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.

Aren't elite athletes by definition a small enough sample size for all evidence involving them to be anecdotal?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
So when they're training they're not consuming carbs? Only when racing? roflmao

If they are consuming carbs while training (they are) and during race, how is that a low carb diet? They train/race year round. foreheadslap

Here you go, cauliflower ears:

ďTo fuel the journey riders need to consume an average of 5,000-plus calories per stage. Maintaining such a huge energy intake is challenging,Ē says Corinne Mšder, senior sports nutritionist at PowerBar, official sports nutrition partners of the Tour de France for over a decade.

Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin...lowTSgtjPuCh.99




I'll hypothesize that, at some point, you run up against biophysics. There are limits to everything. The speed at which your body metabolizes fat is likely not fast enough to keep up with cellular ATP demand. If your cells can't produce metabolites to fuel oxidative phosphorylation, you'll likely: gas out or experience failure, start tapping into glycogen stores, start breaking down muscle tissue, or probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't thought of.

Long story short, elite athletes need carbs.

When in the training process? During competition or before?

These elite athletes are near-starvation the day before competition.





MMA fighting takes place over five 5 minute rounds with 1 minute breaks between each round.

25 minutes with breaks is not an endurance activity. Dummy.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:40 PM

That's the competition. The training is harder than any other sport
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.

Aren't elite athletes by definition a small enough sample size for all evidence involving them to be anecdotal?




Yes.

I couldn't imagine cycling a mountain phase without eating carbs during.

I enjoy morning fasted workouts. Not for any particular reason than my head just seems clear and I'm ready to go. Always eat carbs afterwards. Usually one cup of oatmeal, then it's a protein heavy day with most of my carbs at dinner, especially on days where I feel physical fatigue.

If you're an active adult you're not getting enough protein anyway. As you age your body is less adept at protein synthesis. Limiting complete proteins intake is not good for the aging phenotype and there's generally no way for men over 40 to get enough from food. The body is really good at taking what you give it and making things work....but why make things tough on yourself. You're going to pay for it later. Whey protein is a cheap and easy supplement.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.

Aren't elite athletes by definition a small enough sample size for all evidence involving them to be anecdotal?






You don't have to be an elite athlete to run/swim/ride long distances.

All of which you're fvcked if you don't consume carbs.

You have to know your feeding and hydrating strategy. Eating keto ain't it.

If I go on a ride that's longer than 2 hours, I know I need to bring a gel or two or risk being stranded in the middle of nowhere in a hypoglycemic state.

If you ever experienced it, you never do that mistake again.



Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I'll believe what ifall and Duffy are saying when it becomes the norm for elite athletes to train this way. For now, I'm writing this low carb thing off as a fitness trend.

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.

Aren't elite athletes by definition a small enough sample size for all evidence involving them to be anecdotal?






You don't have to be an elite athlete to run/swim/ride long distances.

All of which you're fvcked if you don't consume carbs.

Feeding and hydrating strategy is the most important thing in these activities.

If I go on a ride that's longer than 2 hours, I know I need to bring a gel or two or risk being stranded in the middle of nowhere in a hypoglycemic state.

If you ever experienced it, you never do that mistake again.




That's because your body is used to eating carbs.

I've done multiple distance swim competitions (2-3 miles) and I don't consume anything besides water competing.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
That's the competition. The training is harder than any other sport


Uh no and no.

You're training for sprint, not a marathon. Carbs not required.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

All of the pro athletes I know limit their carbs to a number that would be considered severely limiting them by SAD standards. This is year-round

The days of carb-loading before competition are over, but then again, I don't hang out with cyclists. However, when I was swimming a lot the people I trained with who did triathlons ever didn't eat a lot of carbs on a daily basis.



Anecdotes are not the same as science. Beware sample size.

Aren't elite athletes by definition a small enough sample size for all evidence involving them to be anecdotal?






You don't have to be an elite athlete to run/swim/ride long distances.

All of which you're fvcked if you don't consume carbs.

Feeding and hydrating strategy is the most important thing in these activities.

If I go on a ride that's longer than 2 hours, I know I need to bring a gel or two or risk being stranded in the middle of nowhere in a hypoglycemic state.

If you ever experienced it, you never do that mistake again.




That's because your body is used to eating carbs.

I've done multiple distance swim competitions (2-3 miles) and I don't consume anything besides water competing.


roflmao

You are confused.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:03 PM

Oh I am? Long distance open water swims are short compared to runs or cycling. Long distance pool swims are only 1000-1500m / 1000-1650yds

Unless you're talking about marathon swimming, which is the equivalent of ultramarathons when running.

There's a reason why the Ironman swim is only a paltry 1.2 mile swim.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:20 PM

Personally I think including high level road weenies in any discussion re athleticism is funnier than shit. One trick ponies. Kill you on a climb/drop you, yeah, but get them off a bike and they're not good for much.
Posted By: obslop

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:33 PM

i don't drink coffee (or any caffeine) anymore. just thought i'd add that here.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: obslop
i don't drink coffee (or any caffeine) anymore. just thought i'd add that here.

Was it hard to quit?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:00 PM

What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:04 PM

What ever happened to the Bulletproof diet and mct's?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:06 PM

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2673150

Quote:
Effect of Low-Fat vs Low-Carbohydrate Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults and the Association With Genotype Pattern or Insulin Secretion
The DIETFITS Randomized Clinical Trial

Findings In this randomized clinical trial among 609 overweight adults, weight change over 12 months was not significantly different for participants in the HLF diet group (−5.3 kg) vs the HLC diet group (−6.0 kg), and there was no significant diet-genotype interaction or diet-insulin interaction with 12-month weight loss.

Meaning There was no significant difference in 12-month weight loss between the HLF and HLC diets, and neither genotype pattern nor baseline insulin secretion was associated with the dietary effects on weight loss.



Still not thrilled about this sample size but it's better than Jeff Volek's sample size of 12.

Also:
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:08 PM

roflmao

roflmao

roflmao
Posted By: obslop

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: obslop
i don't drink coffee (or any caffeine) anymore. just thought i'd add that here.

Was it hard to quit?


no. i first went from coffee to green tea. after a few months of green tea i just stopped drinking tea. i still enjoy something warm in the morning so i drink decaf here and there.

coffee is pretty awesome but i don't really miss it. i think a lot of food/drink habits can be that way.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Oh I am? Long distance open water swims are short compared to runs or cycling. Long distance pool swims are only 1000-1500m / 1000-1650yds

Unless you're talking about marathon swimming, which is the equivalent of ultramarathons when running.

There's a reason why the Ironman swim is only a paltry 1.2 mile swim.


2.4 miles.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Personally I think including high level road weenies in any discussion re athleticism is funnier than shit. One trick ponies. Kill you on a climb/drop you, yeah, but get them off a bike and they're not good for much.


Yeah when I training for triathlons i could ride a bike all day long then go for a run right after but couldnít do a single pull-up.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
What ever happened to the Bulletproof diet and mct's?


Good appetite suppressant and provides a bit of energy.

I sometimes put a bit of coconut oil and butter (and turmeric) in my coffee. Tastes good and I can go until noon - 13:00 without eating.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.

https://stayfitcentral.com/paleo-diet-2/...ets-to-success/
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.

https://stayfitcentral.com/paleo-diet-2/...ets-to-success/


Will be interesting to see the response to this.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.

https://stayfitcentral.com/paleo-diet-2/...ets-to-success/


It's as if you've had this in the chamber ready to fire. Again, beware of sample size. This article talks about paleo, since that was the hot fad diet in 2013 when the article was published. I'd be curious to know how many of them are still on the diet.

This also doesn't say these athletes are on the keto diet. I'd argue that paleo is probably more sustainable than keto for athletes since complex carbs aren't off limits (I think).
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.

https://stayfitcentral.com/paleo-diet-2/...ets-to-success/


It's as if you've had this in the chamber ready to fire. Again, beware of sample size. This article talks about paleo, since that was the hot fad diet in 2013 when the article was published. I'd be curious to know how many of them are still on the diet.

This also doesn't say these athletes are on the keto diet. I'd argue that paleo is probably more sustainable than keto for athletes since complex carbs aren't off limits (I think).



Yeah, beware of sample size.

Because, ya know, Michael Phelps eats pancakes.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:14 PM

Who knew that common sense and science could make so much sense?

https://magazine.nasm.org/american-fitne...et-for-athletes

https://www.thedailybeast.com/olympic-at...a-grain-of-salt (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672014/ and https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1113/JP273230)


https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/low-carb-diets-and-performance#section4

Quote:
Recently, researchers wanted to see if a low-carb diet could alter this effect (18, 19).

Their study found that ketogenic athletes burned mostly fat at up to 70% of max intensity, vs only 55% in the high-carb athletes. In fact, the ketogenic athletes in this study burned the most fat ever recorded in a research setting (17).

Yet despite these positive findings, fat may be unable to produce energy fast enough to meet the demands of the muscles of elite athletes (27, 28, 29).


Nevertheless, studies have found that low-carb diets can help prevent tiredness during prolonged exercise. They may also help you lose fat and improve health, without compromising low-to-moderate intensity exercise performance (4, 30, 31).

Furthermore, these diets can teach your body to burn more fat, which may help you preserve muscle glycogen during exercise (17).

BOTTOM LINE:
A low-carb diet is likely to be just fine for most people exercising at low-to-moderate intensities. However, more research is needed for high-level athletes.
How Carbs Affect Muscle Growth
As of now, no research has shown that low-carb or ketogenic diets are better for high-intensity, strength or power-based sports.

This is because carbs aid muscle growth and high-intensity exercise performance in several ways:

Promote recovery: Carbs may help with recovery after exercise (32).
Produce insulin: Carbs also produce insulin, which helps with nutrient delivery and absorption (33).
Provide fuel: Carbs play an important role in the anaerobic and ATP energy systems, which are the primary fuel sources for high-intensity exercise (34).
Reduce muscle breakdown: Carbs and insulin help reduce muscle breakdown, which may improve net protein balance (35, 36).
Improve neural drive: Carbs also improve neural drive, resistance to fatigue and mental focus during exercise (37).
However, this doesn't mean your diet must be very high in carbs, like a typical Western diet. A moderate-carb or carb cycling diet may work well for most sports./p>

In fact, a moderate-carb, higher-protein diet seems to be optimal for muscle growth and body composition for people who are lean and active (38).

BOTTOM LINE:
Carbs play an important role in muscle growth and high-intensity exercise performance. There is no research showing low-carb diets to be superior for this.
Studies on Low-Carb Diets for Athletes
Several studies have looked into the effects of low-carb diets on high-intensity endurance exercise.

However, they have provided mixed results.

One study found no difference between the ketogenic and high-carb groups for high-intensity sprints.

Yet the ketogenic group did get less tired during low-intensity biking, which is probably because the body used more fat for fuel (39).

Other studies have shown that people on low-carb diets can spare muscle glycogen and use more fat as fuel, which could be beneficial for ultra-endurance sports (18).

Nevertheless, these findings have less relevance for athletes performing high-intensity exercise or workouts of less than 2 hours.

The research is also mixed in obese populations, with some studies showing benefits in lower-intensity aerobic exercise, while others show a negative effect (31, 40).

Some studies have found that individual response may vary as well. For example, one study found that some athletes achieved better endurance performance, while others experienced drastic decreases (41).

At the present time, the research does not show that a low-carb or ketogenic diet can improve high-intensity sports performance, compared to a higher-carb diet.

Yet for lower-intensity exercise, a low-carb diet can match a conventional high-carb diet and even help you use more fat as fuel (31).

BOTTOM LINE:
Low-carb and ketogenic diets do not seem to benefit high-intensity exercise performance. However, these diets seem to match high-carb diets when it comes to lower-intensity exercise.
Are There Any Additional Benefits for Athletes?
One beneficial aspect of a low-carb or ketogenic diet is that it teaches the body to burn fat as fuel (42).

For endurance athletes, research has shown that this can help preserve glycogen stores and keep you from "hitting the wall" during endurance exercises (18, 42).

This helps you rely less on carbs during a race, which could be important for athletes who struggle to digest and consume carbs during exercise. It may also be beneficial during ultra-endurance events where access to food is limited (18).

Additionally, several studies have shown that low-carb and ketogenic diets can help people lose weight and improve overall health (43, 44).

Fat loss can also improve your fat to muscle ratio, which is extremely important for exercise performance, especially in weight-dependent sports (45, 46).

Exercising with low glycogen stores has also become a popular training technique, known as "train low, compete high" (47).

This can improve fat utilization, mitochondria function and enzyme activity, which have a beneficial role in health and exercise performance (47).

For this reason, following a low-carb diet for a short period of time -- such as during an "off season" -- may aid long-term performance and health.

BOTTOM LINE:
Low-carb diets may be useful for some types of endurance exercise. They can also be used strategically to improve body composition and health.
Take Home Message
Low-carb or ketogenic diets can be a good choice for healthy people who are mostly exercising and lifting to stay healthy.

However, there is currently no solid evidence that they improve performance over higher-carb diets in athletes.

That being said, the research is still in its infancy, and some early results suggest that they can be a good choice for low-intensity exercise or ultra-endurance exercise.

At the end of the day, carb intake should be tailored to you as an individual.

FEEDBACK:

Written by Rudy Mawer, MSc, CISSN on May 29, 2017

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Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:15 PM

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/should-athletes-eat-fat-or-carbs/

Quote:
But dietary fat is not as readily available as carbohydrates, which are stored in muscles in a form known as glycogen. Muscles can take up and burn glycogen without many intermediate metabolic steps. Glycogen provides a fast sugar buzz and that buzz can fuel most exercise just fine.

Fat, on the other hand, must first be broken down into fatty acids and other components before it can be used by the muscles, an intermediate step that makes dietary fat less immediately available and efficient as a fuel, especially during intense exercise.

However, exercise scientists long ago established that endurance training makes athletes better able to use fat as a fuel. And that metabolic adaptation prompted many scientists and coaches in recent years to wonder what would happen if you extended that ability to its farthest extreme and trained an athleteís body to rely almost exclusively on fat, by removing almost all carbohydrates from the diet and ramping up grease intake?
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 10:25 PM

The biggest problem with Paleo is:

1. People don't understand what it is.

2. Somehow it got affiliated with Crossfit.

I've never used Paleo to guide my nutrition or foods but for the most part I've arrived there.

Paleo is just a framework of choosing quality foods that fit with either your current body composition, the results you are trying to achieve, coupled with your preference in food. Generally, Paleo isn't a low-carb or a high-protein diet, high or low fat diet, Keto or any other silly marketing term you want to use.... unless that term happens to be high-quality food.

Paleo recommends that you eat quality food and adjust the specifics of the diet depending on your own goals and current status (body fat, hormonal, training, etc)? Is there a better way to approach a diet? This way of guiding nutritional intake within the scope of high quality food improves greatly 99.9% of just about anyones nutrition.

The biggest misconception I see is that Paleo means you can eat snacks all day as long as they are made with with almond flour, coconut water, agave, and chocolate..... and being able to get away with it by calling it paleo

Is eating Paleo healthy? Depending on your choices of course, and how you define health, yes and no.

Are you looking to lose weight or gain weight? Do you want to have a better lipid profile? It all depends on the individual application of the diet and how a person reacts to it under regular monitoring. No diet is "one size fits all" but the Paleo framework is a good place to start. Observe, adjust, measure, repeat.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned sleep in this thread? Mentally, hormonally, physically every bit as important as diet, and every bit as debilitating over the long term if you aren't getting enough of it.

Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
What top olympic athletes are on low-carb, high-fat diets? How about professional soccer players (Premier league, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc)? How about swimmers?

I heard Phelps eats a giants stack of pancakes when he's training.

https://stayfitcentral.com/paleo-diet-2/...ets-to-success/


It's as if you've had this in the chamber ready to fire. Again, beware of sample size. This article talks about paleo, since that was the hot fad diet in 2013 when the article was published. I'd be curious to know how many of them are still on the diet.

This also doesn't say these athletes are on the keto diet. I'd argue that paleo is probably more sustainable than keto for athletes since complex carbs aren't off limits (I think).


You asked about LCHF, not specifically Keto. We've already determined that Keto =/= LCHF and that Keto is more of a way to just lose weight vs a sustainable lifestyle
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 11:06 PM

Quote:
At the end of the day, carb intake should be tailored to you as an individual.

I think this is the key. However since meat eating has somehow become political and meat is an essential part of LCHF diets, this is why I believe many people are so against LCHF diets
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
The biggest misconception I see is that Paleo means you can eat snacks all day as long as they are made with with almond flour, coconut water, agave, and chocolate..... and being able to get away with it by calling it paleo


People do this with Keto diets too. they say "these cookies and cake are Keto friendly! Who cares if I eat 1200 calories worth!" Dipshits

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Why hasn't anyone mentioned sleep in this thread? Mentally, hormonally, physically every bit as important as diet, and every bit as debilitating over the long term if you aren't getting enough of it.


The other problem with not getting enough sleep is that it fooks you up and makes you hungry, so besides all the bad things its doing that aren't instantly evident, you simply ingest more calories
Posted By: drunjk

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/01/19 11:32 PM

Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 12:10 AM

surfing, with rare exceptions, is not an endurance activity.

no point eating lots of carbs for that.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 03:02 AM

Eating carbs is one of life's pleasures.

I can do low carb but I always feel like a heavily medicated manic depressive.

Some types of people are more comfortable with this feeling than others, I suspect.



"And there is a Catskill eagle in some souls that can alike dive down into the blackest gorges, and soar out of them again and become invisible in the sunny spaces. And even if he for ever flies within the gorge, that gorge is in the mountains; so that even in his lowest swoop the mountain eagle is still higher than other birds upon the plain, even though they soar."
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 06:15 AM

I'd rather drink my carbs.

giving up beer is the hardest thing about low carb.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:18 AM

#metoo
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 01:24 PM

All carbs arenít equal obviously

I eat a lot of brown rice and beans

If the average overweight person just cut out soda and sweets, theyíd probably lose weight

There are lots of ways to eat healthy
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 07:51 PM

If your ancestors subsisted on high protein diets for thousands of years, you are probably going to need more protein than someone whose ancestors subsisted primarily on rice. Heredity/genetics matters when it comes to diet IMO.

And is Paleo even controversial at all? Seems pretty moderate/common sense really.

I get the Keto thing being controversial. It's basically the two week induction phase of the old Atkins diet carried on over time. Decades back I did the induction phase and I got shredded in two weeks. It was SO not water weight/muscle. It was kind of shocking really. But I can't see eating like that long term. Nor could Atkins, although that is what I lot of people wrongly thought/claimed.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
If your ancestors subsisted on high protein diets for thousands of years, you are probably going to need more protein than someone whose ancestors subsisted primarily on rice. Heredity/genetics matters when it comes to diet IMO.

And is Paleo even controversial at all? Seems pretty moderate/common sense really.

I get the Keto thing being controversial. It's basically the two week induction phase of the old Atkins diet carried on over time. Decades back I did the induction phase and I got shredded in two weeks. It was SO not water weight/muscle. It was kind of shocking really. But I can't see eating like that long term. Nor could Atkins, although that is what I lot of people wrongly thought/claimed.


yeah it was, especially if it was in the first few weeks.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:03 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/health/mediterranean-best-diet-2019/index.html
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:06 PM

Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.

Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I havenít eaten any kind of bread in about a year and havenít had beer (any alcohol) in over 10 years.

It isnít that hard.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I havenít eaten any kind of bread in about a year and havenít had beer (any alcohol) in over 10 years.

It isnít that hard.


Well we all have our vices. Or maybe that's just me? Bummer.

I just swore off bread/beer a week ago and so far, a bottle of cold beer still holds a certain allure, a certain prurient appeal as it were. Water drops sprinkled randomly upon the smooth glass of a Belgian triple, the sound of... no, the sigh of desire when the bottle is opened, the aroma of...

Oh look at that...

It is SO that hard.

dancing

Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:06 PM

Arthur Saxon was one of the strongest dudes of all time (e.g., 370 lb overhead press with ONE ARM)

He routinely drank shitloads of beer, even while training

Elite athletes yo
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I havenít eaten any kind of bread in about a year and havenít had beer (any alcohol) in over 10 years.

It isnít that hard.


Well we all have our vices. Or maybe that's just me? Bummer.

I just swore off bread/beer a week ago and so far, a bottle of cold beer still holds a certain allure, a certain prurient appeal as it were. Water drops sprinkled randomly upon the smooth glass of a Belgian triple, the sound of... no, the sigh of desire when the bottle is opened, the aroma of...

Oh look at that...

It is SO that hard.

dancing



My vice is pussy.

Bonus points for vise-like pussy.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I guess itís your word against mine then.
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:39 PM

The Saxon brothersí diet. These guys were circus strongmen and absolutely jacked

For breakfast they ate 24 eggs and 3 pounds of smoked bacon; porridge with cream, honey, marmalade and tea with plenty of sugar.

At three oíclock they had dinner: ten pounds of meat was consumed with vegetables (but not much potatoes); sweet fruits, raw or cooked, sweet cakes, salads, sweet puddings, cocoa and whipped cream and very sweet tea. Supper, after the show, they had cold meat, smoked fish, much butter, cheese and beer. Following this they had a chat and at one oíclock went to bed.

The Saxons did have a ďhealth drinkĒ which I presume they concocted themselves. The ingredients were dark lager beer (or Dublin stout) mixed with Holland gin, the yolk of an egg and plenty of sugar. ďIt is a very good but strong drinkĒ was the Saxon opinion, ďbut, if you are not used to it you will get dizzy very quickly.Ē

https://legendarystrength.com/old-time-strongman-diet/
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:46 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I guess itís your word against mine then.


Pretty much. You don't lose water weight and then have it not come back for 6 months.

Anyone who has ever had to make/cut weight knows the difference between being sucked out/dehydrated as opposed to otherwise.
Posted By: obslop

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 09:49 PM

i've cut flour out of my diet. it's not as hard as you think. has nothing to do with losing weight but trying to manage a migraine condition that has been getting worse in recent years. hopefully it'll help.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Arthur Saxon was one of the strongest dudes of all time (e.g., 370 lb overhead press with ONE ARM)

He routinely drank shitloads of beer, even while training

Elite athletes yo


Have we talked about he desirability of good genetics?

I drink beer too.

I'm going to take a break on my next fat loss campaign.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:19 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I did this too.

I could see veins from my leg go up into my abs.

Fun times.

Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: GWS
Nope.

I was lifting at the time. Writing down every set for weights and reps. The lifts all went up. And this is after being on a plateau for a long time. So no loss in muscle mass.

The weight stayed off for about six months. So, NOT water. I eventually wanted to kill somebody for a piece of bread and glass of beer so it all came to a tragic end.



I havenít eaten any kind of bread in about a year and havenít had beer (any alcohol) in over 10 years.

It isnít that hard fun.


fxt
Posted By: BillyOcean

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Arthur Saxon was one of the strongest dudes of all time (e.g., 370 lb overhead press with ONE ARM)

He routinely drank shitloads of beer, even while training

Elite athletes yo


Have we talked about he desirability of good genetics?

I drink beer too.

I'm going to take a break on my next fat loss campaign.


Yeah, thatís sort of my point

Getting fixated on what elite athletes eat is probably misleading

Many of them could eat almost anything and still be elite
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:35 PM

What do Kenyan runners eat?

https://runnersconnect.net/diet-of-kenyan-runners/

Amazing. It's almost as if the body tells you what you need to eat.

Quote:
Daily macronutrient intake of Kenyan runners
Not surprisingly, a majority of the calories in the Kenyan diet came from carbohydrates. In the ten runners studied, 76.5 percent of daily calories were consumed as carbohydrates.
Given their body statistics, this meant each runner was consuming about 10.4 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight.

Moreover, given how they spread out their eating times and training sessions, each athlete was consuming about 600 grams of carbohydrate per day, with almost 120 grams of carbohydrate at every meal.
Protein intake amounted to 10.1 percent of calorie intake. That equals roughly 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight.
About 13.4 percent of daily calories came from fat
How does a Kenyan diet compare to recommendations for endurance athletes
Despite not knowing much about the science of sports nutrition, the diet of these Kenyan runners was surprisingly close to that recommended by sports nutritionist
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:37 PM

and

Quote:
Sugar Ė plain sugar Ė accounted for 20 percent of daily calories. The Kenyans love their tea (in fact, tea consumption was greater than water consumption Ė 1.243 liters per day on average) and they love putting lots of milk and sugar in their tea. Having trained with some Kenyans myself, I can attest to just how much tea they drink and how much milk and sugar they use. Itís incredible.However, a large amount of this sugar also comes from fruits. Immediately after most runs, Kenyans consume some type of fruit, typically watermelon, cantaloupe and honeydew. The simple sugar and water from the fruit speeds glycogen to their muscles post workout.

Ugali supplied the greatest number of total calories, making up 23 percent of the daily diet. Ugali is simply a dish of maize flour (cornmeal) cooked with water. Kenyan runners eat this for dinner almost every night. Generally, itís mixed with a chicken or beef stew and vegetables.When made correctly it actually taste better than it sounds. My college teammate Jordan and I once tried living off Ugali for an entire summer. Unfortunately, our cooking skills sucked and it tasted terrible. But, we were broke so we ate it anyway.

While so far, the diet of a Kenyan runner looks rather unhealthy due to our ďsugar is badĒ culture, Kenyans do eat rather healthy. About 86 percent of daily calories came from vegetable sources, with 14 percent from animal foods. Moreover, they didnít have access to junk food (at least in the training camp) that most Americans do.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:44 PM

Did I mention that my in-laws entire family argued about keto vs. vegan vs. anti-inflammatory diet the entire week between Xmas and NYE? And I was all:






also, barf:

https://www.businessinsider.com/chipotle-paleo-whole30-keto-diet-options-2019-1
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/02/19 11:57 PM

Awesome.

Many times I have felt that my diet was impeeding me in my quest to become an elite long distance Kenyan runner. Although on average Kenyans die more than ten years before Americans. Nothing worthwhile is achieved without sacrifice. I believe lack of pizza and fries have been cited as probable cause in multiple small sample sizes now. Science!

Posted By: Sharkbiscuit

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Did I mention that my in-laws entire family argued about keto vs. vegan vs. anti-inflammatory diet the entire week between Xmas and NYE? And I was all:






also, barf:

https://www.businessinsider.com/chipotle-paleo-whole30-keto-diet-options-2019-1


Originally Posted By: GWS
Awesome.

Many times I have felt that my diet was impeeding me in my quest to become an elite long distance Kenyan runner.


roflmao
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Did I mention that my in-laws entire family argued about keto vs. vegan vs. anti-inflammatory diet the entire week between Xmas and NYE? And I was all:






also, barf:

https://www.businessinsider.com/chipotle-paleo-whole30-keto-diet-options-2019-1
makes sense to me. i usually pack a low-carb lunch for work, but when i don't, i'm looking for good low-carb restaurant options - something that does not involve fries or bread.
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 03:00 AM

they will do well with this.

tender greens is blowing up for a reason.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
they will do well with this.

tender greens is blowing up for a reason.


I hope it tastes better than their current menu.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
All carbs arenít equal obviously


Yup.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 04:31 PM

Who would win in a fight: Team Vegan or Team Keto?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 04:40 PM

With all the talk about elite athletes in this thread, I wonder why nobody has mentioned the number of vegan athletes. There's got to be more of those than keto or HFLC athletes.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-at...rtial-artist-14

https://www.greatveganathletes.com/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/why-nfl-players-and-other-athletes-are-going-vegan.html
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 04:47 PM

https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
With all the talk about elite athletes in this thread, I wonder why nobody has mentioned the number of vegan athletes. There's got to be more of those than keto or HFLC athletes.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-at...rtial-artist-14

https://www.greatveganathletes.com/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/why-nfl-players-and-other-athletes-are-going-vegan.html

Probably because nobody cares shrug Elite athletes are elite athletes in spite of their diets, not because of them. You could add a 4 oz sliver of animal based protein to any vegan meal and probably improve their muscle retention, recovery, and performance shrug
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 06:46 PM

Nick and Nate Diaz are not vegans
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Who would win in a fight: Team Vegan or Team Keto?


Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Nick and Nate Diaz are not vegans


They aren't?

They have claimed to be numerous times.

Run a search and there are a ton of articles (videos even) on them being vegan. Are they secret Keto carnivores pretending to be vegans to mislead the competition?

shrug

I suppose the weed thing works in with the vegan thing with them.
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 07:30 PM

Scott Pilgrim was a really fun movie
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
Scott Pilgrim was a really fun movie


GUESS WHO'S DRUNK!
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink



Probably because nobody cares shrug Elite athletes are elite athletes in spite of their diets, not because of them. You could add a 4 oz sliver of animal based protein to any vegan meal and probably improve their muscle retention, recovery, and performance shrug


This hits the nail on the head, but I'm not the one who brought up elite athletes initially. I think that was ifall.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Who would win in a fight: Team Vegan or Team Keto?




Man, I really wanted that move to never end.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: grapedrink



Probably because nobody cares shrug Elite athletes are elite athletes in spite of their diets, not because of them. You could add a 4 oz sliver of animal based protein to any vegan meal and probably improve their muscle retention, recovery, and performance shrug


This hits the nail on the head, but I'm not the one who brought up elite athletes initially. I think that was ifall.


Maybe it was me but I'm not sure why it matters.

I'm far far far from an elite athlete, I rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/03/19 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: grapedrink



Probably because nobody cares shrug Elite athletes are elite athletes in spite of their diets, not because of them. You could add a 4 oz sliver of animal based protein to any vegan meal and probably improve their muscle retention, recovery, and performance shrug


This hits the nail on the head, but I'm not the one who brought up elite athletes initially. I think that was ifall.


Maybe it was me but I'm not sure why it matters.

I'm far far far from an elite athlete, I rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.




Canít wait to see the resulting ifall meltdown.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 04:19 PM

A few days ago, post holiday, I hit 205. Decided to do something to pull a few extra lbs off. So I stopped bread, sugar, beer fruit juices and processed food. Still having a vodka martini or a neat glass of whiskey in the evenings. Pretty simple. I used to do this years back to drop weight, but I figured age was not going to help things. Down 5 pounds in as many days now. Oh, I suppose I am also doing the intermittent fasting thing. But that's kind of normal for me. For decades. No breakfast because I'm not hungry, skip lunch because I'm busy and maybe start eating around 2 pm or so. Anyway, it still works. I'm guessing the lowest I could go with current muscle mass is about 185. We will see. I seem to do my best surfing just shy of 190.


This of course means I will NOT be dominating the Tour de France this year, so in advance I'd like to apologize to my fans. wink
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: grapedrink



Probably because nobody cares shrug Elite athletes are elite athletes in spite of their diets, not because of them. You could add a 4 oz sliver of animal based protein to any vegan meal and probably improve their muscle retention, recovery, and performance shrug


This hits the nail on the head, but I'm not the one who brought up elite athletes initially. I think that was ifall.


Maybe it was me but I'm not sure why it matters.

I'm far far far from an elite athlete, I rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.




Canít wait to see the resulting ifall meltdown.

Meltdown? guess you've missed the posts were I say that different diets work differently for different people.

You both must have also missed the differentiation between net carbs and carbs.

Although if Fecal trained his body to work without the complex carbs he's thinking about when he says "carbs" he could easily do this on a LCHF diet. FACT
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 04:59 PM


Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:12 PM

Quote:
rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.


And nobody is saying different. Fact.

Again, youíre arguing against a claim that nobody is making.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzb0AsnSB-o" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior



I don't know what my body fat % is, if that's what you mean by bf%. I work out a few times a week to maintain overall fitness, eat right, and don't obsess over weight. I'm not vegan and don't eat keto, so it's kind of difficult to say I'm biased in favor of a vegan diet. Yes, I'm anti keto, but definitely not anti low-carb.

I never said the way I eat is superior, just that keto is unsustainable and probably unhealthy (according to published scientific research).
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot


Although if Fecal trained his body to work without the complex carbs he's thinking about when he says "carbs" he could easily do this on a LCHF diet. FACT



Easily? Fact? How do you know this is a FACT?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Nick and Nate Diaz are not vegans


They aren't?

They have claimed to be numerous times.

Run a search and there are a ton of articles (videos even) on them being vegan. Are they secret Keto carnivores pretending to be vegans to mislead the competition?

shrug

I suppose the weed thing works in with the vegan thing with them.


They eat a ďplant basedĒ diet.

During heavy training phases they will ďsupplementĒ with fish, eggs and ďother sourcesĒ of animal protein.

I have had lunch with Nick.

Fish tacos.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.


And nobody is saying different. Fact.

Again, youíre arguing against a claim that nobody is making.


Read above, the resident erBB expert in everything did make that claim.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzb0AsnSB-o" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior



I don't know what my body fat % is, if that's what you mean by bf%. I work out a few times a week to maintain overall fitness, eat right, and don't obsess over weight. I'm not vegan and don't eat keto, so it's kind of difficult to say I'm biased in favor of a vegan diet. Yes, I'm anti keto, but definitely not anti low-carb.

I never said the way I eat is superior, just that keto is unsustainable and probably unhealthy (according to published scientific research).


Very few, if any, people eat Keto all the time.

As you say, itís unsustainable.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Nick and Nate Diaz are not vegans


They aren't?

They have claimed to be numerous times.

Run a search and there are a ton of articles (videos even) on them being vegan. Are they secret Keto carnivores pretending to be vegans to mislead the competition?

shrug

I suppose the weed thing works in with the vegan thing with them.


They eat a ďplant basedĒ diet.

During heavy training phases they will ďsupplementĒ with fish, eggs and ďother sourcesĒ of animal protein.

I have had lunch with Nick.

Fish tacos.


Tell me you had bong hits first...

wink
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Nick and Nate Diaz are not vegans


They aren't?

They have claimed to be numerous times.

Run a search and there are a ton of articles (videos even) on them being vegan. Are they secret Keto carnivores pretending to be vegans to mislead the competition?

shrug

I suppose the weed thing works in with the vegan thing with them.


They eat a ďplant basedĒ diet.

During heavy training phases they will ďsupplementĒ with fish, eggs and ďother sourcesĒ of animal protein.

I have had lunch with Nick.

Fish tacos.


Tell me you had bong hits first...

wink


Those guys smoke a lot of weed.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy


Those guys smoke a lot of weed.



is that keto?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:50 PM

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/i...vs.-vegan-diets
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Duffy


Those guys smoke a lot of weed.



is that keto?


Plant based.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot


Although if Fecal trained his body to work without the complex carbs he's thinking about when he says "carbs" he could easily do this on a LCHF diet. FACT



Easily? Fact? How do you know this is a FACT?

The FACT quip was in response to Fecal saying FACT that no one could do his ride eating differently than he does
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzb0AsnSB-o" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior



I don't know what my body fat % is, if that's what you mean by bf%. I work out a few times a week to maintain overall fitness, eat right, and don't obsess over weight. I'm not vegan and don't eat keto, so it's kind of difficult to say I'm biased in favor of a vegan diet. Yes, I'm anti keto, but definitely not anti low-carb.

I never said the way I eat is superior, just that keto is unsustainable and probably unhealthy (according to published scientific research).

We're mainly in agreement. However, you or I or others on this thread continue to interchange LCHF (the sustainable way to eat) with keto (a way to cut weight) when that's not the case.

Maybe I'm misreading you but you're also saying that other eating systems are superior to keto and LCHF
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Duffy


Those guys smoke a lot of weed.



is that keto?


No. Plant based.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:35 PM

Everything I eat is plant based

Vegetables - plant
Herbivore meat - animals that eat plants
Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.


And nobody is saying different. Fact.

Again, youíre arguing against a claim that nobody is making.


So you are on a keto diet that includes carbs? confused2

Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot

Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants


I'm pretty sure cows are not supposed to eat meat.



Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Duffy


Those guys smoke a lot of weed.



is that keto?


Plant based.


But it is lipid soluble so......
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Quote:
rode a 50 mile MTB race recently and done a few centuries over the years and none of them could have been done without consuming carbs, during training and during race. Fact.


And nobody is saying different. Fact.

Again, youíre arguing against a claim that nobody is making.


So you are on a keto diet that includes carbs? confused2






And there you go again, arguing against a claim that was never made. Iím thinking itís a pathological compulsion you have.

In fact, Iíve stated here several times that Keto isnít all that and that itís not sustainable.

Iím not and have never been on a Keto diet.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 07:08 PM

Okay cool.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzb0AsnSB-o" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior



I don't know what my body fat % is, if that's what you mean by bf%. I work out a few times a week to maintain overall fitness, eat right, and don't obsess over weight. I'm not vegan and don't eat keto, so it's kind of difficult to say I'm biased in favor of a vegan diet. Yes, I'm anti keto, but definitely not anti low-carb.

I never said the way I eat is superior, just that keto is unsustainable and probably unhealthy (according to published scientific research).

We're mainly in agreement. However, you or I or others on this thread continue to interchange LCHF (the sustainable way to eat) with keto (a way to cut weight) when that's not the case.

Maybe I'm misreading you but you're also saying that other eating systems are superior to keto and LCHF


I do think that other eating habits are superior to keto and LCHF and I&#7743; basing that on the existing scientific evidence. And I think people should clarify what they mean by LC and HF. Low processed carbs is a great idea. Complex and/or unrefined cards in the diet is just fine. High fat, as long as it consists of unsaturated fats and fish-derived fats, seems fine. The saturated and processed fats definitely seem to be a problem.

Yeah, I think we&#341;e mostly in agreement but you&#341;e unnecessarily bellicose.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants


I'm pretty sure cows are not supposed to eat meat.




A cow would be a herbivore.

3rd grade biology
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/9-nutritional-studies-keto-diet-fans-have-to-read

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzb0AsnSB-o" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hmmmm, "Plant Based News"

I'm seeing the political bias against LCHF I mentioned earlier.

BTW, what's your BF%? If you're so anti LCHF show your own numbers on how the way you eat is superior



I don't know what my body fat % is, if that's what you mean by bf%. I work out a few times a week to maintain overall fitness, eat right, and don't obsess over weight. I'm not vegan and don't eat keto, so it's kind of difficult to say I'm biased in favor of a vegan diet. Yes, I'm anti keto, but definitely not anti low-carb.

I never said the way I eat is superior, just that keto is unsustainable and probably unhealthy (according to published scientific research).

We're mainly in agreement. However, you or I or others on this thread continue to interchange LCHF (the sustainable way to eat) with keto (a way to cut weight) when that's not the case.

Maybe I'm misreading you but you're also saying that other eating systems are superior to keto and LCHF


I do think that other eating habits are superior to keto and LCHF and I&#7743; basing that on the existing scientific evidence. And I think people should clarify what they mean by LC and HF. Low processed carbs is a great idea. Complex and/or unrefined cards in the diet is just fine. High fat, as long as it consists of unsaturated fats and fish-derived fats, seems fine. The saturated and processed fats definitely seem to be a problem.

Yeah, I think we&#341;e mostly in agreement but you&#341;e unnecessarily bellicose.

I'm unnecessarily bellicose? roflmao
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/04/19 10:41 PM

I do appreciate the use of the term bellicose in this day and age when people seem intent to make up new words when we already have so many great underused words.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 02:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
I do appreciate the use of the term bellicose in this day and age when people seem intent to make up new words when we already have so many great underused words.



cheers
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 03:19 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants


I'm pretty sure cows are not supposed to eat meat.




A cow would be a herbivore.

3rd grade biology


do you know where your meat is coming from?

grass fed, grass finished?

your beef is likely omnivorous depending on source.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 03:21 AM

https://www.butcherbox.com

Also from Ifallalot Sr.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 04:04 AM

https://www.alderspring.com
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 05:18 AM

hat
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 05:25 AM

Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 08:18 AM

tail bone injures fvck girls up
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
tail bone injures fvck girls up


My sister broke her tail bone 15-16 years ago snowboarding and itís still fook up.

I broke mine 4 years ago and it was painful to sit for about 3 years.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 12:47 PM

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants


I'm pretty sure cows are not supposed to eat meat.




A cow would be a herbivore.

3rd grade biology


do you know where your meat is coming from?

grass fed, grass finished?

your beef is likely omnivorous depending on source.


I started college as an animal science major and had to take a few classes on animal feed and nutrition. The amount of bonemeal in bovine feed is frightening.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 03:56 PM

Now I know this planet has gone totally fvcking insane:

1. https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-friendly-restaurants. Cites McDonalds, Chik fil A, Five Guys, and Dunkin Donuts as viable food options.

2. https://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-l...to-diet-photo/. Refers to Jenna Jameson as "sexy". Maybe if they referred to her as the skankiest skank in all of skanktown, I'd be inclined to agree.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 04:01 PM

These are interesting.

https://www.wnyc.org/story/huge-new-study-casts-doubt-on-conventional-wisdom-about-fat-and-carbs/

https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/are-all-calories-created-and-burned-equally/ (listened to this yesterday).
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 05:16 PM



From the first link...

Quote:
Among the PURE participants, those with the highest intake of dietary fat (35 percent of daily calories) were 23 percent less likely to have died during the study period than those with the lowest fat intake (10 percent of calories). The rates of various cardiovascular diseases were essentially the same across fat intake, while strokes were less common among those with a high fat intake.

Upending conventional wisdom, the findings for carbohydrate intake went in the opposite direction. PURE participants with the highest carbohydrate intake (77 percent of daily calories) were 28 percent more likely to have died than those with the lowest carbohydrate intake (46 percent of calories). The results were presented at the European Society of Cardiology meeting in Barcelona, and published in the Lancet.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 10:39 PM

Yes that's why I posted them. Yecause they are interesting and because this matter is far from settled. One scientific study alone doesn't serve to solidify an idea or theory. It often takes many studies over several decades to formulate scientific consensus. Kind of like climate change.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Yes that's why I posted them. Yecause they are interesting and because this matter is far from settled. One scientific study alone doesn't serve to solidify an idea or theory. It often takes many studies over several decades to formulate scientific consensus. Kind of like climate change.


No shit?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Yes that's why I posted them. Yecause they are interesting and because this matter is far from settled. One scientific study alone doesn't serve to solidify an idea or theory. It often takes many studies over several decades to formulate scientific consensus. Kind of like climate change.


No shit?


True story.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
tail bone injures fvck girls up


My sister broke her tail bone 15-16 years ago snowboarding and itís still fook up.

I broke mine 4 years ago and it was painful to sit for about 3 years.


Did she get any inter pelvic trigger point work done?

If that is the problem you got to go up the butt hole and pussy to fix.

But yeah, tail bone trauma in youth come back to haunt women.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/05/19 11:24 PM

Diet work because you are sticking to a plan.

Humans are highly adaptable.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 12:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
tail bone injures fvck girls up


My sister broke her tail bone 15-16 years ago snowboarding and itís still fook up.

I broke mine 4 years ago and it was painful to sit for about 3 years.


Did she get any inter pelvic trigger point work done?

If that is the problem you got to go up the butt hole and pussy to fix.

But yeah, tail bone trauma in youth come back to haunt women.


She was almost 40 when it happened.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 05:22 AM

Originally Posted By: obslop
i've cut flour out of my diet. it's not as hard as you think. has nothing to do with losing weight but trying to manage a migraine condition that has been getting worse in recent years. hopefully it'll help.


Worked for me, no flour or sugar....headaches gone
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 06:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
tail bone injures fvck girls up


My sister broke her tail bone 15-16 years ago snowboarding and itís still fook up.

I broke mine 4 years ago and it was painful to sit for about 3 years.


Did she get any inter pelvic trigger point work done?

If that is the problem you got to go up the butt hole and pussy to fix.

But yeah, tail bone trauma in youth come back to haunt women.


She was almost 40 when it happened.


I was in my youth well into my 40s.

A tailbone injury at 40 is probably worse.

I think the idea is that girls get tail bone injuries when they are young from playing.

The 40 year old sister was playing, the behavior of young people.

Where is she?

There is a good pelvic floor PT in Newport Beach.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Now I know this planet has gone totally fvcking insane:

1. https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-friendly-restaurants. Cites McDonalds, Chik fil A, Five Guys, and Dunkin Donuts as viable food options.

2. https://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-l...to-diet-photo/. Refers to Jenna Jameson as "sexy". Maybe if they referred to her as the skankiest skank in all of skanktown, I'd be inclined to agree.


Keto is like a junk food hall pass to most believers, that's why it's so appealing.

Stuffing yourself with beef made with steroids, hormones and medicated feed a.k.a. putting burgers between two lettuce leaves and believing they're getting "ripped", is why people love it.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Now I know this planet has gone totally fvcking insane:

1. https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-friendly-restaurants. Cites McDonalds, Chik fil A, Five Guys, and Dunkin Donuts as viable food options.

2. https://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-l...to-diet-photo/. Refers to Jenna Jameson as "sexy". Maybe if they referred to her as the skankiest skank in all of skanktown, I'd be inclined to agree.


Keto is like a junk food hall pass to most believers, that's why it's so appealing.

Stuffing yourself with beef made with steroids, hormones and medicated feed a.k.a. putting burgers between two lettuce leaves and believing you're getting "ripped", is why people love it.


All those ďrestaurantsĒ are gross.

Well, except 5 Guys.

5 Guys is yummy.

But I donít eat there that often (none near me) and certainly donít eat there for health reasons or to ďget shreddedĒ.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 10:41 PM

Well, you're not on Keto.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/06/19 11:14 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Well, you're not on Keto.


Yeah, but Iím shredded!
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 08:54 PM

I had eggs, tomato, and avocado for lunch today. Am I in the club?
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 09:33 PM

Keto first prescribed by medical professionals as a way to halt seizures in epileptics.
Also prescribed for cancer patients recovering or entering chemo.


Anyone got any ideas of the "why" of this?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
Keto first prescribed by medical professionals as a way to halt seizures in epileptics.
Also prescribed for cancer patients recovering or entering chemo.


Anyone got any ideas of the "why" of this?


Because itís a starvation diet and deprives cells of glucose?
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:11 PM

yeah, then what?

why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
yeah, then what?

why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?


Careful mate, heís trained in science.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:49 PM

Quote:
why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?


I think the process involved in the keto diet produces metabolites that interrupts the chemical pathway(s) that trigger seizures.

Don't know if this is true, just me thinking aloud.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
yeah, then what?

why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?


I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Are you saying you have an idea why?

I was merely hypothesizing. I'm not really sure which specific cellular and metabolic mechanisms would result in reduced seizures. I'd have to do some research on that one.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Quote:
why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?


I think the process involved in the keto diet produces metabolites that interrupts the chemical pathway(s) that trigger seizures.

Don't know if this is true, just me thinking aloud.


That could make sense too. The possibilities there could include repression or enhancement of signaling cascades.

Repression could include producing metabolites that interrupt chemical signaling or depriving the cell or metabolites the would normally induce signaling.

Enhancement of signaling could include producing more of a metabolite that could enhance signaling or producing more of a metabolite that would outcompete a repressor ligand, thereby increasing signaling.

Again, I'm hypothesizing. I'd have to research it.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 11:04 PM

Pretty interesting stuff:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051114220938.htm

Quote:
New studies show that the ketogenic diet, a high-fat, calorie-restricted diet used to treat epileptic seizures in children, alters genes involved in energy metabolism in the brain, which in turn helps stabilize the function of neurons exposed to the challenges of epileptic seizures. This knowledge could help scientists identify specific molecular or genetic targets and lead to more effective drug treatments for epilepsy and brain damage.....

On the cellular level, they found that the anticonvulsant effect of the ketogenic diet did not correlate with a rise in plasma ketone levels or with a decrease in plasma glucose. Because longer treatment with the KD was necessary to increase the resistance to seizures, they concluded that changes in gene expression might hold the key to the diet's anticonvulsant effects......

To identify which genes might be involved, the researchers used microarray "gene chips" to examine changes in gene expression for more than 7,000 rat genes simultaneously. They focused on the hippocampus, a region of the brain known to play an important role in many kinds of epilepsies. More than 500 of the genes they examined were correlated with treatment with the KD. The most striking finding was the coordinated up-regulation of genes involved in energy metabolism.

To explain this genetic effect, the scientists first eliminated the possibility that the KD diet might cause enhanced production of GABA, a chemical messenger in the brain that helps limit seizure activity. They found that GABA levels in the hippocampus were unchanged with the KD.....

To test whether energy reserves in hippocampal neurons were enhanced with the KD, they counted the number of energy "factories," or mitochondria, within cells using electron microscopy. They found that KD treatment significantly increased the number of mitochondria per unit area in the hippocampus. This finding, along with the concerted increase in the expression of genes encoding energy metabolic enzymes, led them to conclude that KD treatment enhances energy production in the hippocampus and may lead to improved neuronal stability.

Finally, the researchers tested whether brain tissue affected by the KD would be more resistant to low levels of glucose (an effect of seizures) because of their enhanced energy reserves. They found that synaptic communication in KD-fed rats was more resistant to low glucose levels than in control animals fed a regular diet.

The researchers believe their new knowledge could lead to the development of more effective drug treatments for epilepsy and brain damage.

And because the diet enhances the brain's ability to withstand metabolic challenges, they also believe the ketogenic diet should be studied as a possible treatment for other neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's or Parkinson's diseases.

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 11:06 PM

Pretty cool stuff all around.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK98219/

Quote:
Within the past two decades, interest in understanding the therapeutic mechanisms of ketogenic diet (KD) action has grown steadily. Expanded knowledge about underlying mechanisms has yielded insights into the biochemical basis of brain function, both normal and pathologic. Metabolic changes likely related to the KDís anticonvulsant properties include Ė but are not limited to Ė ketosis, reduced glucose, elevated fatty acid levels, and enhanced bioenergetic reserves.

Direct neuronal effects induced by the KD may involve ATP-sensitive potassium (KATP) channel modulation, enhanced purinergic (i.e., adenosine) and GABAergic neurotransmission, increased brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression consequent to glycolytic restriction, attenuation of neuroinflammation, as well as an expansion in bioenergetic reserves and stabilization of the neuronal membrane potential through improved mitochondrial function.

Importantly, beyond its utility as an anticonvulsant treatment, the KD may also exert neuroprotective and anti-epileptogenic properties, heightening the clinical potential of the KD as a disease-modifying intervention. As dietary treatments are already known to evoke a wide array of complex metabolic changes, future research will undoubtedly reveal a more complex mechanistic framework for KD action, but one which should enable improved formulations offering comparable or superior efficacy with fewer side-effects, not only for epilepsy but perhaps a broader range of neurological disorders.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 11:30 PM

That is interesting.

re: production of GABA. or sensitivity to GABA

I've never done a proper KETO diet but have experiments with low carb so have probably gone into ketosis at some point.

first thing I notice is an improvement in mood.

Although anecdotal this is very easily tracked subjectively hour to hour, day to day.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/07/19 11:35 PM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: freeride76
yeah, then what?

why would cells deprived of glucose be good for epileptics or cancer patients?


Careful mate, heís trained in science.


hahah, me too.
How they hanging El O?
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I had eggs, tomato, and avocado for lunch today. Am I in the club?

No, tomatoes have too much sugar to be used anything more than sparingly if you're trying true Keto. Normal LCHF? YOu're doing great
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I had eggs, tomato, and avocado for lunch today. Am I in the club?

No, tomatoes have too much sugar to be used anything more than sparingly if you're trying true Keto. Normal LCHF? YOu're doing great


I was just trying to find a delicious lunch and apparently I hit pay dirt.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 01:09 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
That is interesting.

re: production of GABA. or sensitivity to GABA

I've never done a proper KETO diet but have experiments with low carb so have probably gone into ketosis at some point.

first thing I notice is an improvement in mood.

Although anecdotal this is very easily tracked subjectively hour to hour, day to day.


I notice I stabilize. And I don't need to eat.

But I get bored with these feelings after a while.

I'll take the lows to get the highs.

I'm going on a fat loss campaign when I get home on friday.

It's good to get cut once in a while to prime the systems and maintain that skill.

https://www.ketonutrition.org
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 01:14 AM

Too bad Joe Rogan doesnít surf

Hey Kelly, we know youíre lurking. You mind asking your buddy Joe to weigh in here. We need his expertise
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Too bad Joe Rogan doesnít surf

Hey Kelly, we know youíre lurking. You mind asking your buddy Joe to weigh in here. We need his expertise
cowabunga
rg

Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:01 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Pretty cool stuff all around.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK98219/

Quote:
Within the past two decades, interest in understanding the therapeutic mechanisms of ketogenic diet (KD) action has grown steadily. Expanded knowledge about underlying mechanisms has yielded insights into the biochemical basis of brain function, both normal and pathologic. Metabolic changes likely related to the KDís anticonvulsant properties include Ė but are not limited to Ė ketosis, reduced glucose, elevated fatty acid levels, and enhanced bioenergetic reserves.

Direct neuronal effects induced by the KD may involve ATP-sensitive potassium (KATP) channel modulation, enhanced purinergic (i.e., adenosine) and GABAergic neurotransmission, increased brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression consequent to glycolytic restriction, attenuation of neuroinflammation, as well as an expansion in bioenergetic reserves and stabilization of the neuronal membrane potential through improved mitochondrial function.

Importantly, beyond its utility as an anticonvulsant treatment, the KD may also exert neuroprotective and anti-epileptogenic properties, heightening the clinical potential of the KD as a disease-modifying intervention. As dietary treatments are already known to evoke a wide array of complex metabolic changes, future research will undoubtedly reveal a more complex mechanistic framework for KD action, but one which should enable improved formulations offering comparable or superior efficacy with fewer side-effects, not only for epilepsy but perhaps a broader range of neurological disorders.


Couldnít you get the same effect from fasting?
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:04 AM

Btw, was talking to a client today and he said he did keto a couple years ago to lose weight for his wedding.

Lost 40 pounds, gained it all back and now heís going keto again.

I said, ďhow about you just eat less?Ē
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Btw, was talking to a client today and he said he did keto a couple years ago to lose weight for his wedding.

Lost 40 pounds, gained it all back and now heís going keto again.

I said, ďhow about you just eat less?Ē


cheers applause2
Would you mind if I made a poster of this?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Pretty cool stuff all around.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK98219/

Quote:
Within the past two decades, interest in understanding the therapeutic mechanisms of ketogenic diet (KD) action has grown steadily. Expanded knowledge about underlying mechanisms has yielded insights into the biochemical basis of brain function, both normal and pathologic. Metabolic changes likely related to the KDís anticonvulsant properties include Ė but are not limited to Ė ketosis, reduced glucose, elevated fatty acid levels, and enhanced bioenergetic reserves.

Direct neuronal effects induced by the KD may involve ATP-sensitive potassium (KATP) channel modulation, enhanced purinergic (i.e., adenosine) and GABAergic neurotransmission, increased brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression consequent to glycolytic restriction, attenuation of neuroinflammation, as well as an expansion in bioenergetic reserves and stabilization of the neuronal membrane potential through improved mitochondrial function.

Importantly, beyond its utility as an anticonvulsant treatment, the KD may also exert neuroprotective and anti-epileptogenic properties, heightening the clinical potential of the KD as a disease-modifying intervention. As dietary treatments are already known to evoke a wide array of complex metabolic changes, future research will undoubtedly reveal a more complex mechanistic framework for KD action, but one which should enable improved formulations offering comparable or superior efficacy with fewer side-effects, not only for epilepsy but perhaps a broader range of neurological disorders.


Couldnít you get the same effect from fasting?



Yes, if the goal is to lose weight, but the research summarized above is aimed at treating medical conditions. Otherwise keto is completely unnecessary.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:25 AM

maybe, maybe not.

looks like scientific turf wars over nutrition and the biochemistry of digestion/absorption/utilisation of micro and macro nutrients have a ways to play out yet.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 03:33 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Btw, was talking to a client today and he said he did keto a couple years ago to lose weight for his wedding.

Lost 40 pounds, gained it all back and now heís going keto again.

I said, ďhow about you just eat less?Ē


cheers applause2
Would you mind if I made a poster of this?


Knock yourself out...
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 05:52 AM

Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

Carnivore meat - animals that eat animals that eat plants


I'm pretty sure cows are not supposed to eat meat.




A cow would be a herbivore.

3rd grade biology


do you know where your meat is coming from?

grass fed, grass finished?

your beef is likely omnivorous depending on source.


Exactly my point
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 05:57 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:43 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao


As do most fruits
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao

Keep illustrating your ignorance
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao


This is the first and only time I've ever seen someone suggest that a tomato is not a healthy food. ifall will argue about literally anything.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao

Keep illustrating your ignorance


Youíre fvcking insane.

Skipping tomatoes because they have ďtoo much sugarĒ but stuffing yourself with red meat is a sure way to have a heart attack before the age of 60.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao

Keep illustrating your ignorance


Youíre fvcking insane.

Skipping tomatoes because they have ďtoo much sugarĒ but stuffing yourself with red meat is a sure way to have a heart attack before the age of 60.

Not necessarily, at least within reasonable limits. Your cholesterol numbers are more of an indicator of your overall health, not a health factor in and of itself. Most of your bodies cholesterol is made in the liver, not consumed via your diet. The best way to lower your cholesterol numbers is to lose body fat.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:51 PM

Sure, but your gut, liver and kidneys all work overtime to deal with that shit. It will take a toll over the extended periods of time way more than tomatoes would, no matter how ďshreddedĒ you think you are.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Sure, but your gut, liver and kidneys all work overtime to deal with that shit. It will take a toll over the extended periods of time way more than tomatoes would, no matter how ďshreddedĒ you think you are.

Please keep going. This is great
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
[quote=hal9000]
No, tomatoes have too much sugar


roflmao


This is the first and only time I've ever seen someone suggest that a tomato is not a healthy food. ifall will argue about literally anything.

I'm not suggesting a tomato is not healthy, I'm asserting it has too much sugar for a keto diet.

Nuance!

Still, if you're going to eat 27g of sugar wouldn't you rather get it from something that tastes good like banana instead of a tomato?
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Sure, but your gut, liver and kidneys all work overtime to deal with that shit. It will take a toll over the extended periods of time way more than tomatoes would, no matter how ďshreddedĒ you think you are.

Please keep going. This is great


Yeah bro so shredded right now.

Posted By: mundus

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 07:20 PM

Is high cholesterol a worry for the KETO guys?
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 07:23 PM











Last one with gross skin is 355-160

But sure, keep mocking
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 08:30 PM

Just because you cheated your body to loose weight , doesnít mean itís healthy.

You can lose weight if you eat carbs too.

You are being a dummy.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Still, if you're going to eat 27g of sugar wouldn't you rather get it from something that tastes good like banana instead of a tomato?


Them's fighting words!

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 08:42 PM

How do we know what caused their weight loss? Maybe they starved themselves
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
Is high cholesterol a worry for the KETO guys?
from personal experience, it should be, especially for the older guys.

does anyone here have any thoughts or knowledge about the Framingham Risk Score?
Posted By: mundus

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 09:10 PM

I have high cholesterol even though fit and 5'9" 165, I was shocked when I found out, I thought if you were fit you did not have to worry.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
I have high cholesterol even though fit and 5'9" 165, I was shocked when I found out, I thought if you were fit you did not have to worry.



The keto guys don't understand basic genetics.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:11 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
I have high cholesterol even though fit and 5'9" 165, I was shocked when I found out, I thought if you were fit you did not have to worry.
same here. my cholo was borderline high for a couple years and i kept telling the doc that i could bring it down with dietary changes. this year, he said get a CT scan or go on meds.

i was shocked when the CT scan revealed significant whatever in my arteries, doubling my Framingham score from 8% to 16% (the chances i will have a major coronary event in the next 10 years). thought i was doing everything right - cardio every day for 20 years, eat lots of raw food daily etc etc.

vis a vis keto, i have eaten a keto diet (or close to it) for the last couple years....i am reasonably sure exacerbated my cholo with the keto. found all this out last week and became a pescatarian, right on the spot.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: mundus
Is high cholesterol a worry for the KETO guys?
from personal experience, it should be, especially for the older guys.

does anyone here have any thoughts or knowledge about the Framingham Risk Score?


When you get your brain in the Ketosis state, you get the ability to ignore science.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
became a pescatarian, right on the spot.


Same. fish
Posted By: mundus

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:29 PM

Kinda sucks for me, used to fish for a living and ate fish a lot, now I am sick of it. Plus quality fish is expensive.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: mundus
Is high cholesterol a worry for the KETO guys?
from personal experience, it should be, especially for the older guys.

does anyone here have any thoughts or knowledge about the Framingham Risk Score?


When you get your brain in the Ketosis state, you get the ability to ignore science.



Ketogenic state
Ketosis state.... lololol

Sussle, I hope the diet change works well for you. Post an update when you get your next tests results
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: mundus
Is high cholesterol a worry for the KETO guys?
from personal experience, it should be, especially for the older guys.

does anyone here have any thoughts or knowledge about the Framingham Risk Score?


When you get your brain in the Ketosis state, you get the ability to ignore science.



I really don't know what the answers are here but...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...olesterol_Level


shrug

quick search and first result.

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:
The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.


That's only one study, but there seems to be a LOT of stuff out there claiming beneficial aspects re cholesterol with keto diets. I can't quite get my head around it, seems a little too out there for a long-term diet. I'm more of an "all things in moderation, avoid processed food" kind of guy. But then I'm probably 10 -15 pounds overweight at the moment so whatever.
Posted By: ringer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:06 PM

I know a guy on a pretty much long-term keto diet. Former high-level college athlete, is still ripped and in great shape and health. But then I saw him eating just the topping off of his pizza, and none of the crust. I knew right then that such a diet could not be for me.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:11 PM

Hey GWS, whatís up man?
Whatís your eating philosophy and practice?
Your wisdom is usually pretty wise
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:15 PM

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2018/08/411526...o-and-dont-know

There's quite a bit of evidence out there re beneficial aspects of the diet. But there is also a lot that they really don't know yet. At least that is what it seems like to me. Deriding it as "anti science" seems a bit over the top. More like "science unsure" at this point. So considering most of us will be dead before the long term data is collected, analyzed and conclusions reached, you make your choices and take your chances. If I were going to go on it long term (not going to) I'd be at minimum getting some yearly blood work done.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: mundus
Kinda sucks for me, used to fish for a living and ate fish a lot, now I am sick of it. Plus quality fish is expensive.


what type of "fish for a living"?
Posted By: mundus

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:30 PM

All species in season, sportfishing
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:33 PM

wow, where?

Also, did you see that short documentary GWS posted a bit ago about deckhands in Florida?
Posted By: mundus

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/08/19 11:50 PM

NJ Yes, watched the whole thing, cool and sad at the same time. Those lifers rarely end well.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: mundus
I have high cholesterol even though fit and 5'9" 165, I was shocked when I found out, I thought if you were fit you did not have to worry.
same here. my cholo was borderline high for a couple years and i kept telling the doc that i could bring it down with dietary changes. this year, he said get a CT scan or go on meds.

i was shocked when the CT scan revealed significant whatever in my arteries, doubling my Framingham score from 8% to 16% (the chances i will have a major coronary event in the next 10 years). thought i was doing everything right - cardio every day for 20 years, eat lots of raw food daily etc etc.

vis a vis keto, i have eaten a keto diet (or close to it) for the last couple years....i am reasonably sure exacerbated my cholo with the keto. found all this out last week and became a pescatarian, right on the spot.


I thought the new thinking was the ratio of HDl to LDL was more important than total?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 12:48 AM

2 kg costillas de puerco, 5 horas a 220f. Sopa de arroz. Frijoles. Tortillas de masa. Salsa mexicana. Cerveza Corona.

Vayan uds mucho a la verga con sus mamadas.

Bola de pendejos delicados.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 12:56 AM

cue ifall and caca to tell us that cholesterol can't kill you.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 01:31 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot










Last one with gross skin is 355-160

But sure, keep mocking


That is a lot of water weight
Posted By: LBBoozer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 02:15 AM

All diets work for losing weight as long as you ingest less calories than you expend, pretty simple math. Anybody who thinks there is something "magical" about the keto diet that allows you to lose weight by ingesting more calories than you expend doesn't know much about how the human organism works.

That being said many like Keto because it's simple to understand (don't eat carbs), drops initial weight faster than most other diets (a lot of water from lack of stored glycogen) and fairly easy to adhere to if your are fairly strict and dedicated. Has the same problems that most "diets" have in that most people do not commit to the lifestyle permanently and when they lose the weight they revert back to old eating habits and gain the weight back plus more. It is not fool proof either, some people love meat and if you tell them eat as much as you want some will actually gain weight while remaining in ketosis. Furthermore, it has yet to be seen if it is the most healthy diet long term or if the high levels of fat intake and lack of fiber and micronutrients from carb sources causes health issues in the long term.

I wouldn't suggest anyone adopt the keto lifestyle permanently unless it was the only way they were going to lose the weight and stay at a health weight (healthy weight keto lifestyle probably still healthier than staying over-fat).

A diet which consists of eating the appropriate amount of calories for your goals (maintain, lose or gain weight), consisting of a variety of mostly whole foods (meats, veggies, dairy, grains, fruit, etc.) is most likely the best diet long term, but most people will not commit to living this way. It's really not that hard, you can still drink alcohol, eat junk food, etc. just keep it under about 20% of your total diet. In other words, eat like adult.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 03:04 AM

for me, it's always been about going after that last 10 pounds....could never quite get down to that ideal weight (for me, about 160-165). keto got me there and it was easy to do....and it was interesting and reaffirming to be able to track the process of ketosis (with keto stix).

but along the way, i've mentally demonized things like fruit (nature's candy, the ketoheads call it), legumes, whole grains etc....and eaten way too much cheese, lunch meat, animal fat, etc etc....probably to my own detriment.
Posted By: PPK96754

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 11:08 AM

Loco Moko!
2 Hamburger patties, 2 scoops white rice with a side on potato / macaroni salad wif brown gravey. Sunny side egg over the entire mess .....!!

No worry, beef curry! Get Poi too!!
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Just because you cheated your body to loose weight , doesnít mean itís healthy.

You can lose weight if you eat carbs too.

You are being a dummy.

roflmao
Posted By: aldo1

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 05:02 PM

Processed carbs are easy to eat and fill you up quickly, but not for long. Excess carbs are converted to sugar and stored in the body as fat, starting with visceral fat. Generally people just eat too many.
Keto is about training your body to use consumed fat as fuel rather than storing it, meanwhile reducing your fat/energy stores(blubber).
Its a whole lot healthier than eating crap and becoming obese.
Not all calories are equal. If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.

Once again balance is the healthiest but not all can maintain balance.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: aldo1
Processed carbs are easy to eat and fill you up quickly, but not for long. Excess carbs are converted to sugar and stored in the body as fat, starting with visceral fat. Generally people just eat too many.
Keto is about training your body to use consumed fat as fuel rather than storing it, meanwhile reducing your fat/energy stores(blubber).
Its a whole lot healthier than eating crap and becoming obese.
Not all calories are equal. If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.

Once again balance is the healthiest but not all can maintain balance.



This ignores all the potentially unhealthy side effects that come with the keto diet. And study after study has shown that keto is not a sustainable long-term diet. Most people go off it and gain the weight back.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: aldo1
Processed carbs are easy to eat and fill you up quickly, but not for long. Excess carbs are converted to sugar and stored in the body as fat, starting with visceral fat. Generally people just eat too many.
Keto is about training your body to use consumed fat as fuel rather than storing it, meanwhile reducing your fat/energy stores(blubber).
Its a whole lot healthier than eating crap and becoming obese.
Not all calories are equal. If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.

Once again balance is the healthiest but not all can maintain balance.



This ignores all the potentially unhealthy side effects that come with the keto diet. And study after study has shown that keto is not a sustainable long-term diet. Most people go off it and gain the weight back.


I thought the problem was a dearth of long-term studies re the keto diet?
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ringer
But then I saw him eating just the topping off of his pizza, and none of the crust. I knew right then that such a diet could not be for me.


roflmao

How come the people who amazingly/drastically dropped ___lbs on some/such diet, are the ones who are needing to drop those pounds again now?
Posted By: 3dXman

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Just because you cheated your body to loose weight , doesnít mean itís healthy.

You can lose weight if you eat carbs too.

You are being a dummy.


DO U feel alot better when U wake up with a lemon 0r 2, stukk up ur azzhole/?




Whats Ur favorite vegetable dancing
Posted By: DerDer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: aldo1
If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.


This is not really true. If you ingest more calories then you burn from vegetables, your body will store some of the extra energy as fat. It's just really hard to eat mass amounts of calories from most vegetables. -- much easier with processed foods, or foods with high fat content.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/09/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: DerDer
Originally Posted By: aldo1
If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.


This is not really true. If you ingest more calories then you burn from vegetables, your body will store some of the extra energy as fat. It's just really hard to eat mass amounts of calories from most vegetables. -- much easier with processed foods, or foods with high fat content.

Or high calorie content
Fat doesnít make you fat
Some foods are low in fat but high in calories
Calories in < calories out is what leads to weight loss
Intermittent fasting, Keto, paleo, Atkins, weight watchers... theyíll all lead to weight loss if calories in < calories out. Maybe some work better for others, maybe because some people comply with one style or another better.
You do you
Keep in mind, Iím no scientist
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 12:42 AM

Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: ringer
But then I saw him eating just the topping off of his pizza, and none of the crust. I knew right then that such a diet could not be for me.


roflmao

How come the people who amazingly/drastically dropped ___lbs on some/such diet, are the ones who are needing to drop those pounds again now?

Not me or anyone I know
Posted By: DerDer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 01:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: DerDer
Originally Posted By: aldo1
If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.


This is not really true. If you ingest more calories then you burn from vegetables, your body will store some of the extra energy as fat. It's just really hard to eat mass amounts of calories from most vegetables. -- much easier with processed foods, or foods with high fat content.

Or high calorie content
Fat doesnít make you fat
Some foods are low in fat but high in calories
Calories in < calories out is what leads to weight loss
Intermittent fasting, Keto, paleo, Atkins, weight watchers... theyíll all lead to weight loss if calories in < calories out. Maybe some work better for others, maybe because some people comply with one style or another better.
You do you
Keep in mind, Iím no scientist
cowabunga
rg


100% agree. I only mentioned "high fat content" since fat is calorie dense.

Most experts, that I've read, say that ease of compliancy is the most important aspect when choosing a diet.
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 01:25 AM

Beer batter shrimp, french fries, Coca-Cola. nana
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: aldo1
Processed carbs are easy to eat and fill you up quickly, but not for long. Excess carbs are converted to sugar and stored in the body as fat, starting with visceral fat. Generally people just eat too many.
Keto is about training your body to use consumed fat as fuel rather than storing it, meanwhile reducing your fat/energy stores(blubber).
Its a whole lot healthier than eating crap and becoming obese.
Not all calories are equal. If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.

Once again balance is the healthiest but not all can maintain balance.



This ignores all the potentially unhealthy side effects that come with the keto diet. And study after study has shown that keto is not a sustainable long-term diet. Most people go off it and gain the weight back.


I thought the problem was a dearth of long-term studies re the keto diet?


Do you really not understand how it could be both of those things?
Posted By: keenfish

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Beer batter shrimp, french fries, Coca-Cola. nana


And don't skimp on the mayo for papas fritas dipping. beer
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: keenfish
Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Beer batter shrimp, french fries, Coca-Cola. nana


And don't skimp on the mayo for papas fritas dipping. beer


I think mayo is keto.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:01 AM

Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:08 AM

Seems like calories in/calories out is just too simplistic and not how shit works.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
Seems like calories in/calories out is just too simplistic and not how shit works.


That's not exactly how it works because there are other factors like genetics, metabolism, activity level, etc. But in general, the number of calories consumed is a good guideline.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 02:54 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.
no sugar?
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: freeride76
Seems like calories in/calories out is just too simplistic and not how shit works.


That's not exactly how it works because there are other factors like genetics, metabolism, activity level, etc. But in general, the number of calories consumed is a good guideline.


dem old confounding factors again.

digestibility by the human gut is only at the basic level of understanding.

but hey, go eat a few thousand calories of grass .......enough to fatten a poddy calf and see what happens.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 04:43 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.

When you cut out sugar from your diet so many things taste great. Vegetables are extra delicious
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 05:01 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I only drink black coffee and water. Those are the only liquids I consume.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.

When you cut out sugar from your diet so many things taste great. Vegetables are extra delicious
i can cut sugar out of everything except black coffee. a strong cup of expresso requires sweetener, and no artificial sweetener will cut it. just a teaspoon.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: aldo1
Processed carbs are easy to eat and fill you up quickly, but not for long. Excess carbs are converted to sugar and stored in the body as fat, starting with visceral fat. Generally people just eat too many.
Keto is about training your body to use consumed fat as fuel rather than storing it, meanwhile reducing your fat/energy stores(blubber).
Its a whole lot healthier than eating crap and becoming obese.
Not all calories are equal. If you eat enormous amounts of green vegetables and nothing else you will not get fat.

Once again balance is the healthiest but not all can maintain balance.



This ignores all the potentially unhealthy side effects that come with the keto diet. And study after study has shown that keto is not a sustainable long-term diet. Most people go off it and gain the weight back.


I thought the problem was a dearth of long-term studies re the keto diet?


Do you really not understand how it could be both of those things?


I didn't look very long, but I found only one longer term study re the keto diet, and that study was favorable re the diet. I linked to it earlier, but it was glossed over. Again...

______________________

I really don't know what the answers are here but...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...olesterol_Level


shrug

quick search and first result.

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:
The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.

_______________________________________

shrug

So you are claiming that "study after study" has indicated problems with the keto diet long term. I'm not saying those studies aren't there, I just didn't find them. I'm truly interested here. I'm having a hard time believing the diet is a good long term solution.

So please, of the plethora of long term studies that you have found on the keto diet and its damaging aspects, could you maybe just provide me with your top ten? With links? Thank you in advance.

I didn't think the concept of the keto diet was all that old. I'm not sure how you get a long term study done on something that has only been in existence for a relatively short period of time, but maybe science has a way. Looking forward to your links.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 04:36 PM

Oh, and because I'm a giver, (give give give) I decided to put my body on the line for science. Since this thread started, I decided to give keto a try for a few weeks re the Atkins thing and drop a few lbs. So I lost a quick five pounds.(And no, it was NOT water weight lol) Then some weird shit started happening.

I have been under really high levels of stress re some family issues. Not my issues, but I seem to be tasked with dealing with everything/trying to fix things.

So what started happening, for the first time in my life, were what I thought were anxiety attacks. I'd be working, into my work, and all of the sudden my heart rate would just spike. Hard. Kind of like a post fight or flight type of response. Happened about three times. Then a few nights ago I picked up a sparring partner for some very, very low-key training. My heart rate spiked beyond anything that was reasonable. I had to bow out and get off the floor. It was embarrassing and scary. One of the guys I work out with came over and asked me if I had changed my diet. Light bulb.

So I googled "Keto racing heart" etc etc and I learned that this is a side effect of the initial stages of the diet for some people. Generally it supposedly goes away after a few weeks. Apparently this is not that out of the ordinary as people start eating this way. Anyway, a little spooky. I prefer the diet explanation as opposed to thinking I was suddenly getting anxiety attacks. Think maybe I'll back off of the keto (as in Atkins approach) and just move to a more rounded paleo approach.

Moderation.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.
no sugar?



No sugar. Still great.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.

When you cut out sugar from your diet so many things taste great. Vegetables are extra delicious



Yeah I agree with this fully.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 10:36 PM

Quote:
So I lost a quick five pounds.(And no, it was NOT water weight lol)

How can you be absolutely certain it was not at least partially water weight confused2 The science is very straightforward as to why you drop water weight with a low carb/keto diet.

Also, 5 pounds of fat is A LOT of fat to lose in a short period of time shrug
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
So I lost a quick five pounds.(And no, it was NOT water weight lol)

How can you be absolutely certain it was not at least partially water weight confused2 The science is very straightforward as to why you drop water weight with a low carb/keto diet.

Also, 5 pounds of fat is A LOT of fat to lose in a short period of time shrug


I'm guessing it was all in the knees
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/10/19 11:31 PM

Iím pretty sure that if youíre eating at a caloric deficit, thereís an initial quick weight loss.
Google gycogen weight loss
But everyone is different
GWS, thanks for giving Keto a try for the good of the erbb. Glad you stopped before if killed you.
Assuming your wife is still a nurse, donít ignore what she say about getting that checked out. Of course everyone knows that the internet is the best doctor, but sometimes a human one can be good for a second opinion
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 12:06 AM

5lbs that quickly is water weight.
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Is black coffee keto? I've been on a black coffee kick lately.


Hell yeah it is. Its also the main drink of the IF crowd



I had a minor surgical procedure done two months ago and the only thing I was allowed to have in the morning was black coffee. Made me realize how great it tastes.

When you cut out sugar from your diet so many things taste great. Vegetables are extra delicious
i can cut sugar out of everything except black coffee. a strong cup of expresso requires sweetener, and no artificial sweetener will cut it. just a teaspoon.


50 calories in each teaspoon
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 12:51 AM

Jillian Michaels doesn't like it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2019...nse/2535605002/
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I had eggs, tomato, and avocado for lunch today. Am I in the club?


Avocado is a strange thing for a man to eat. Sure it's a great food source but it's like eating an ice cream cone of a banana, better when home alone. Guacamole...... fine. Something that comes with avocado in it...sure. But stand alone you're suspect. If you order avocado toast you're a full blown faggot.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: PPK96754
Loco Moko!
2 Hamburger patties, 2 scoops white rice with a side on potato / macaroni salad wif brown gravey. Sunny side egg over the entire mess .....!!

No worry, beef curry! Get Poi too!!


That's my goto after a heavy workout. No better way to get much needed protein and carbs in.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 01:16 AM

Originally Posted By: LBBoozer
All diets work for losing weight as long as you ingest less calories than you expend, pretty simple math. Anybody who thinks there is something "magical" about the keto diet that allows you to lose weight by ingesting more calories than you expend doesn't know much about how the human organism works.

That being said many like Keto because it's simple to understand (don't eat carbs), drops initial weight faster than most other diets (a lot of water from lack of stored glycogen) and fairly easy to adhere to if your are fairly strict and dedicated. Has the same problems that most "diets" have in that most people do not commit to the lifestyle permanently and when they lose the weight they revert back to old eating habits and gain the weight back plus more. It is not fool proof either, some people love meat and if you tell them eat as much as you want some will actually gain weight while remaining in ketosis. Furthermore, it has yet to be seen if it is the most healthy diet long term or if the high levels of fat intake and lack of fiber and micronutrients from carb sources causes health issues in the long term.

I wouldn't suggest anyone adopt the keto lifestyle permanently unless it was the only way they were going to lose the weight and stay at a health weight (healthy weight keto lifestyle probably still healthier than staying over-fat).

A diet which consists of eating the appropriate amount of calories for your goals (maintain, lose or gain weight), consisting of a variety of mostly whole foods (meats, veggies, dairy, grains, fruit, etc.) is most likely the best diet long term, but most people will not commit to living this way. It's really not that hard, you can still drink alcohol, eat junk food, etc. just keep it under about 20% of your total diet. In other words, eat like adult.


Anyone on the Keto diet not eating carbs isn't doing it right.

Also true Keto is lower in protein than I would find useful, limited to somewhere around 70-90g/day.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
5lbs that quickly is water weight.


Maybe. I don't really consider 5 pounds in two weeks "quick."

Used to be all I had to do was not drink alcohol or eat sugar and i could pull off five pounds in less than two weeks.

I've had to make weight a number of times and I like to feel like I know my body well enough to know when I am sucked out/dehydrated vs I've dropped fat. There's a definite difference in the way you feel if you have ever done it.

And I'm assuming by your lack of a response that your claimed "study after study" that indicated long term problems with a keto diet was a BS exaggeration on your part.

I'm still interested if you can produce. LINKS PLEASE.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 01:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Iím pretty sure that if youíre eating at a caloric deficit, thereís an initial quick weight loss.
Google gycogen weight loss
But everyone is different
GWS, thanks for giving Keto a try for the good of the erbb. Glad you stopped before if killed you.
Assuming your wife is still a nurse, donít ignore what she say about getting that checked out. Of course everyone knows that the internet is the best doctor, but sometimes a human one can be good for a second opinion
cowabunga
rg


Actually I didn't quit yet. I just upped my carbs a touch. I've had two other people tell they had the same thing happen to them in the first two weeks. I'm going to push this a little further.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 02:46 AM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000
5lbs that quickly is water weight.


Maybe. I don't really consider 5 pounds in two weeks "quick."

Used to be all I had to do was not drink alcohol or eat sugar and i could pull off five pounds in less than two weeks.

I've had to make weight a number of times and I like to feel like I know my body well enough to know when I am sucked out/dehydrated vs I've dropped fat. There's a definite difference in the way you feel if you have ever done it.

And I'm assuming by your lack of a response that your claimed "study after study" that indicated long term problems with a keto diet was a BS exaggeration on your part.

I'm still interested if you can produce. LINKS PLEASE.


5 pounds of total weight in 2 weeks is not quick- with "weight" including fat, muscle tissue, and water. 5 pounds of body fat would be very quick unless you are at least moderately obese. For that 5 pounds to be exclusively or even 80-90% fat would be unusual. The less fat you have, the more likely you are to lose muscle in addition to fat when losing weight, which makes the prospect of a reasonably in shape person (which I am assuming you are based on your posting history) to drop 5 pounds in 2 weeks without at least some muscle and water loss highly unlikely. You can certainly lose muscle while losing fat but look more ripped, lift stronger, and feel great because of the relief provided by the fat loss.

Also, it's very complicated to accurately assess muscle loss versus fat loss, even with expensive equipment, let alone parse out the water weight loss.

Here's a link I posted earlier, where ketogenic dieters lost muscle mass while dieting, more so than a standard diet: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649 Therefore if what you said is true, that would make you an exception to the norm.

Most of the research I've come across that is not pushed by internet diet gurus state that the most total weight a normal person can lose in a week with it being strictly fat and not muscle tissue is 1 pound/week, with some researchers believing that a half pound of fat is more likely (link is a podcast, but cites an actual peer reviewed study) https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/weight-loss/how-much-fat-can-you-lose-0

If I'm wrong, congrats on being a freak blush2 wink2 hat dancing
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/11/19 11:29 PM

Losing muscle mass is, at least to me, one of the best arguments AGAINST the keto diet.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/12/19 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Losing muscle mass is, at least to me, one of the best arguments AGAINST the keto diet.

Sure, but in fairness you will probably have some muscle loss no matter what type of diet you choose, unless you take it slow shrug
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/13/19 04:39 PM

Saw an interesting article about orthorexia. Can't help but think keto is just one example of it.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/13/19 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Saw an interesting article about orthorexia. Can't help but think keto is just one example of it.

That's a bullshit, proposed "disorder" pushed by the HAES crowd.

A preoccupation with eating healthy food is a good thing, especially when confronted with the worldwide obesity epidemic
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/13/19 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Losing muscle mass is, at least to me, one of the best arguments AGAINST the keto diet.

Sure, but in fairness you will probably have some muscle loss no matter what type of diet you choose, unless you take it slow shrug


Diet has little to do with muscle mass. It's more of a calorie surplus/deficit thing.

You could do nothing but sit on the couch and eat Pringles and drink Dr Pepper, gain 100 lbs and still see a net gain in muscle mass.

Generally you will never add muscle tissue on a calorie restricted diet. For an obese untrained person there is a small window, but that's it.

I don't think as written the Keto diet allows enough protein for stress recovery. I also think that depending on a persons lipid panel and genetics it could be a very poor choice, again as written.

The very best diet a person could use would be one that measures macro-nutrients, contains whole proteins and saturated fats, and is base lined and minimally adjusted over time depending on measured results. When people tracking this they are usually shocked at how many calories they were actually consuming per day.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/13/19 06:50 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Saw an interesting article about orthorexia. Can't help but think keto is just one example of it.

That's a bullshit, proposed "disorder" pushed by the HAES crowd.

A preoccupation with eating healthy food is a good thing, especially when confronted with the worldwide obesity epidemic

No, itís not bullshit
Maybe you donít know anyone like this, but I do.
I know the difference between being concerned about what you eat and obsession over controlling what youíre eating and the anxiety that comes with potentially not being able to control what you eat and when you eat it
Itís a whole different level
Maybe itís not itís own disorder, and exists in people with anxiety and ocd, and this is jus the thing that triggers it
And eating Keto or vegan or gluten free may go along with it, but just having a restricted diet isnít what theyíd describing.
This is NOT a description of hating On health conscious people. Itís describing a behavior that is a mental health issue and may or may not lead to physical health problems as well.
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/13/19 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Saw an interesting article about orthorexia. Can't help but think keto is just one example of it.

That's a bullshit, proposed "disorder" pushed by the HAES crowd.

A preoccupation with eating healthy food is a good thing, especially when confronted with the worldwide obesity epidemic

No, itís not bullshit
Maybe you donít know anyone like this, but I do.
I know the difference between being concerned about what you eat and obsession over controlling what youíre eating and the anxiety that comes with potentially not being able to control what you eat and when you eat it
Itís a whole different level
Maybe itís not itís own disorder, and exists in people with anxiety and ocd, and this is jus the thing that triggers it
And eating Keto or vegan or gluten free may go along with it, but just having a restricted diet isnít what theyíd describing.
This is NOT a description of hating On health conscious people. Itís describing a behavior that is a mental health issue and may or may not lead to physical health problems as well.
cowabunga
rg



This.

And social media doesn't help either.
Posted By: ringer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 04:26 AM

I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 11:56 AM

Originally Posted By: ringer
I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.

The problem is that those fruits are filled with sugar. A banana almost has as much sugar as a can of soda
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: ringer
I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.

The problem is that those fruits are filled with sugar. A banana almost has as much sugar as a can of soda


The two are not the same.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: ringer
I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.

The problem is that those fruits are filled with sugar. A banana almost has as much sugar as a can of soda


The two are not the same.

Sugar is sugar
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 02:43 PM

Maybe the difference in opinions on fruit stems from the opinion on whether or not all sugar needs to be removed from the diet
If all sugar needs to be removed, then, yes, fruits need to be removed. End of story.
If not, then fruits have benefits that make them a better choice than a can of soda or other processed food with the same amount of sugar
Keto trips me out big time, man
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Maybe the difference in opinions on fruit stems from the opinion on whether or not all sugar needs to be removed from the diet
If all sugar needs to be removed, then, yes, fruits need to be removed. End of story.
If not, then fruits have benefits that make them a better choice than a can of soda or other processed food with the same amount of sugar
Keto trips me out big time, man
cowabunga
rg

You can get the vast majority of those nutrients that fruits have from vegetable that have much less sugar in them. People forget that LCHF diets allow for TONS of veggies to be consumed.

The other theory people have about the overconsumption of fruits is that until recently, in the vast majority of locales, fruit was a seasonal thing. The sugar in fruit was fine in-season, but year-round consumption leads to overconsumption.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Saw an interesting article about orthorexia. Can't help but think keto is just one example of it.

That's a bullshit, proposed "disorder" pushed by the HAES crowd.

A preoccupation with eating healthy food is a good thing, especially when confronted with the worldwide obesity epidemic


In a world where beef is healthy food but where tomatoes have "too much sugar", it sure sounds like a disorder to me.

Mental disorder.
Posted By: LBBoozer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: ringer
I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.

The problem is that those fruits are filled with sugar. A banana almost has as much sugar as a can of soda


Fruits contain fructose (sugar) but also contain fiber, which slows the metabolism of the fructose, and limiting insulin spike, not to mention all the micronutrients contained in fruits that cannot be provided by a keto diet. Additionally, when fruit is eaten and moderation, as part of a balanced meal containing protein and fat, there is almost no impact to insulin. Sure, eating only a hand of bananas for breakfast is not a great idea, but sounds terrible anyways.

Don't think the keto diet is the devil, nor do I care how others eat, but the keto zealots are right up there with the vegans when it comes to being closed minded. (PS- if vegans don't want to eat meat as a moral decision, I'm cool with that, but if they preach that the vegan diet is the best or healthiest, they are wrong, but to each their own)
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: LBBoozer
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: ringer
I don't know all of the fancy chemical analyses, but a diet which encourages eating porkfat (which I definitely eat) but discourages eating apples, oranges, tangerines, and bananas (which I also eat) seems suspect.

The problem is that those fruits are filled with sugar. A banana almost has as much sugar as a can of soda


Fruits contain fructose (sugar) but also contain fiber, which slows the metabolism of the fructose, and limiting insulin spike, not to mention all the micronutrients contained in fruits that cannot be provided by a keto diet. Additionally, when fruit is eaten and moderation, as part of a balanced meal containing protein and fat, there is almost no impact to insulin. Sure, eating only a hand of bananas for breakfast is not a great idea, but sounds terrible anyways.

Don't think the keto diet is the devil, nor do I care how others eat, but the keto zealots are right up there with the vegans when it comes to being closed minded. (PS- if vegans don't want to eat meat as a moral decision, I'm cool with that, but if they preach that the vegan diet is the best or healthiest, they are wrong, but to each their own)

I understand what you're saying and agree with you, but in our banana example we're talking about something with 27g of carbs, 14 of which are sugar, and only 3g of fiber to offset that.

People automatically think fruit = healthy automatically which isn't always the case
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot


People automatically think fruit = healthy automatically which isn't always the case


Yeah, what a bunch of idiots.

Everybody knows: burger = healthy / tomatoes = unhealthy

Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:01 PM

This has just gotten...

whatever.

There are other things in fruit besides sugar. Some of those things science tells us help prevent cancer. Citrus, various berries and yes Virginia, tomatoes, and dare I say even beans and carrots provide cancer protection. Moderation. Cancer bad.

So, as my experiment continues, my Atkins style loading phase got me a dismal five pounds in two weeks. I can't see eating that way long term. So I am continuing and basically restricting bread/wheat, beer, bawling refined sugar. I'm still having a (1) vodka martini at the end of the day (after I work out) or a couple of shots of silver TaKillYa over ice. And I am down another pound. There was no rebound weight gain of my "water" loss, just a slower continuation of the downward trend in my weight. I should probably cut all the booze out next. Now I am mostly just trying to eat clean and avoid processed foods. Whatever. When I was younger, if I knew I had to cut five pounds and I was two weeks out I would just eliminate wheat, bread, pasta, booze and refined sugars. Done. No dehydration weight cut, wrapped in garbage bags, sauna, stationary bike BS necessary. Now my older body REALLY wants to hang on to that last ten pounds. It doesn't get easier. A benefit re the weight loss is I surf better under 200 pounds. And I am now under 200. dancing

I'd like to hit 190...
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000
5lbs that quickly is water weight.


Maybe. I don't really consider 5 pounds in two weeks "quick."

Used to be all I had to do was not drink alcohol or eat sugar and i could pull off five pounds in less than two weeks.

I've had to make weight a number of times and I like to feel like I know my body well enough to know when I am sucked out/dehydrated vs I've dropped fat. There's a definite difference in the way you feel if you have ever done it.

And I'm assuming by your lack of a response that your claimed "study after study" that indicated long term problems with a keto diet was a BS exaggeration on your part.

I'm still interested if you can produce. LINKS PLEASE.


5 pounds of total weight in 2 weeks is not quick- with "weight" including fat, muscle tissue, and water. 5 pounds of body fat would be very quick unless you are at least moderately obese. For that 5 pounds to be exclusively or even 80-90% fat would be unusual. The less fat you have, the more likely you are to lose muscle in addition to fat when losing weight, which makes the prospect of a reasonably in shape person (which I am assuming you are based on your posting history) to drop 5 pounds in 2 weeks without at least some muscle and water loss highly unlikely. You can certainly lose muscle while losing fat but look more ripped, lift stronger, and feel great because of the relief provided by the fat loss.

Also, it's very complicated to accurately assess muscle loss versus fat loss, even with expensive equipment, let alone parse out the water weight loss.

Here's a link I posted earlier, where ketogenic dieters lost muscle mass while dieting, more so than a standard diet: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649 Therefore if what you said is true, that would make you an exception to the norm.

Most of the research I've come across that is not pushed by internet diet gurus state that the most total weight a normal person can lose in a week with it being strictly fat and not muscle tissue is 1 pound/week, with some researchers believing that a half pound of fat is more likely (link is a podcast, but cites an actual peer reviewed study) https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/weight-loss/how-much-fat-can-you-lose-0

If I'm wrong, congrats on being a freak blush2 wink2 hat dancing


Did you read my previous page link? Peer reviewed study that appears to at least partially contradict your first link. Check it out.

Second link,isn't the Spanish Doc talking about how much weight can be lost through exercise alone? A quick read of that, it sounds like there is a communication problem happening between the Spaniard and the author. But regardless, in a state of diet induced Ketosis, is not your body being forced to burn fat for fuel? I think the science on that is fairly settled? If your body has in fact been forced to use fat for fuel, doesn't it follow your body will drop more fat over a given time period than someone not in a state of ketosis?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:12 PM

So...... fruit is unhealthy and fat-laden animal protein is healthy, therefore America is the healthiest country in the world?
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
So...... fruit is unhealthy and fat-laden animal protein is healthy, therefore America is the healthiest country in the world?

rolleyes

Way to Fecal it up
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
So...... fruit is unhealthy and fat-laden animal protein is healthy, therefore America is the healthiest country in the world?

rolleyes

Way to Fecal it up


It was obviously intentional.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:44 PM

I ate a tomato today and became a diabetic. bawling
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
So...... fruit is unhealthy and fat-laden animal protein is healthy, therefore America is the healthiest country in the world?

rolleyes

Way to Fecal it up


It was obviously intentional.

It's hard to tell on this forum sometimes
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:55 PM

Hidden camera footage of Fecal eating fruit.



dancing
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 05:56 PM

Quote:
Did you read my previous page link? Peer reviewed study that appears to at least partially contradict your first link. Check it out.

You mean this study confused2 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ with this finding "The weight and body mass index of the patients decreased significantly (P<0.0001)"

Not sure how that contradicts, assuming this is the link you mentioned. Weight loss and BMI reduction would be expected with any diet. However what a lot of diet studies do not evaluate are changes in body composition i.e. muscle gain/loss and change in percent body fat. Even if they do, they do not parse out water loss from muscle loss, therefore fat and water get lumped together as "fat free mass".

Which brings me to the finding from the link I posted, which may not be a perfect study and has a small number of participants (17), but at least it was in a metabolic ward with sound methodology:

"Body fat loss slowed during the KD and coincided with increased protein utilization and loss of fat-free mass. "

Therefore I find it it suspect that anyone can lose 5 pounds of fat in 2 weeks, regardless of their diet, without some muscle and/or water loss. I know that you specifically said that you don't think you lost water weight, which may be true, but to not lose some muscle mass with that amount of weight in that time frame would be highly unusual. Most people greatly underestimate muscle loss when dieting/cutting, because anyone with a decent physique would look more ripped after dropping 10-20 pounds, even if a third to half of that was muscle loss.

As for the study I posted, if you listen to the podcast (less than 10 minutes, worth a listen) she does say that upon contacting the researcher, he did say that his findings got lost in translation, and that fat loss potential from exercise was around an ounce/hour. So at best about 1/2 pound a week if you jog for an hour everyday. No thanks drowning Later in the podcast she goes on to say that in her experience and meta analysis of available research, the most fat someone can lose without losing muscle is around 0.5-1 pound/week whether that be from diet and/or exercise.

Quote:
But regardless, in a state of diet induced Ketosis, is not your body being forced to burn fat for fuel? I think the science on that is fairly settled?

Yes, I believe that mechanism is well accepted. However your body will first burn the dietary fat you consume, which is the bulk of your diet when you are ketogenic. If there is a caloric deficit, it will then burn body and/or muscle tissue for energy, although that would happen with any diet in a calorie deficit. Question is will keto allow the body prioritize body fat over muscle tissue while in a deficit confused2 The jury may still be out on that, however the study I posted suggests "No" shrug
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 06:31 PM

Let's just go to the conclusions since no one wants to go over the whole thing.

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:

The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.


compare to the conclusion of the study you linked to.

Quote:
Conclusion: The isocaloric KD was not accompanied by increased body fat loss but was associated with relatively small increases in EE that were near the limits of detection with the use of state-of-the-art technology.


Not a direct contradiction I will grant you, but if you read the two studies, the difference in tone from one study to the next is significant.

Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons. Further, if it were all water weight, wouldn't there be an immediate rebound in weight following cessation of the ketogenic portion of the diet? Instead weight has continued to decline, albeit at a slower rate.



Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 06:52 PM

Fascinating Fact #986530: You can eat bananas every single day and nothing else and still lose weight.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 08:22 PM

I weighed myself immediately before my last poop and again immediately after
I lost 4 pounds!
Iím pretty sure some of that had to be due to the calorie burning and muscle producing work involved Iím pooping
Lost another 3 overnight. I was going to eat an orange, but saw this thread and didnít want it anymore, Some of that mightíve been water weight. My down comforter makes me sweat out a few pounds every night
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 08:29 PM

If you really like processed junk food just go to Trader Joes. They package theirs as organic.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
I weighed myself immediately before my last poop and again immediately after
I lost 4 pounds!
Iím pretty sure some of that had to be due to the calorie burning and muscle producing work involved Iím pooping
Lost another 3 overnight. I was going to eat an orange, but saw this thread and didnít want it anymore, Some of that mightíve been water weight. My down comforter makes me sweat out a few pounds every night
cowabunga
rg



Pictures or it didn't happen.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Let's just go to the conclusions since no one wants to go over the whole thing.

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:

The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.


compare to the conclusion of the study you linked to.

Quote:
Conclusion: The isocaloric KD was not accompanied by increased body fat loss but was associated with relatively small increases in EE that were near the limits of detection with the use of state-of-the-art technology.


Not a direct contradiction I will grant you, but if you read the two studies, the difference in tone from one study to the next is significant.

Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons. Further, if it were all water weight, wouldn't there be an immediate rebound in weight following cessation of the ketogenic portion of the diet? Instead weight has continued to decline, albeit at a slower rate.





One of my points in this thread is that the keto diet is meant for use in people who are obese, diabetics, and people who have seizures. It's completely unnecessary for the rest of the population, just like all the nonsense gluten-free diets.
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 09:13 PM

roflmao
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 09:32 PM

Quote:
Not a direct contradiction I will grant you, but if you read the two studies, the difference in tone from one study to the next is significant.

Agreed. If you were to "follow the money" so to speak, I think you would find biases or at least trends in the views of the various researchers for both studies. Also, not sure if it was clear, but the study I linked compares the results of a ketogenic to a standard diet, with total calories and protein kept the same. Both diets had weight and muscle loss, with more muscle loss recorded in the keto group.

Quote:
Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.

Intuitively yes, but It's not unheard of for people to lose muscle mass while dieting but still have their lifts go up. There could also be a energy exertion/lack of tiredness advantage with ketogenic that helps you push out a few extra reps and add some more weight. Or maybe your weight at the start of this thread had a few pounds of post-holiday bloat? I can easily be 5 pounds heavier on a Monday after a rough weekend than I am the following Friday after 4 days of normal eating and exercise.

Again, just throwing out some possible explanations that may or may not apply to you. What I am saying is that if you are correct, your results are far from typical and likely to not be reproduced by most people shrug
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS

Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.


Can't a person's existing musculature become more efficient during training without any weight gain? You aren't losing muscle fiber, you aren't gaining new muscle fiber, but the muscle fiber you do have becomes more energy efficient such that a person is stronger?
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Duffy


50 calories in each teaspoon


In a Tablespoon of table sugar, sure, just not in a teaspoon.

link

FWIW I am sure you knew what you meant just made a speed typing brain hiccup.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
Not a direct contradiction I will grant you, but if you read the two studies, the difference in tone from one study to the next is significant.

Agreed. If you were to "follow the money" so to speak, I think you would find biases or at least trends in the views of the various researchers for both studies. Also, not sure if it was clear, but the study I linked compares the results of a ketogenic to a standard diet, with total calories and protein kept the same. Both diets had weight and muscle loss, with more muscle loss recorded in the keto group.

Quote:
Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.

Intuitively yes, but It's not unheard of for people to lose muscle mass while dieting but still have their lifts go up. There could also be a energy exertion/lack of tiredness advantage with ketogenic that helps you push out a few extra reps and add some more weight. Or maybe your weight at the start of this thread had a few pounds of post-holiday bloat? I can easily be 5 pounds heavier on a Monday after a rough weekend than I am the following Friday after 4 days of normal eating and exercise.

Again, just throwing out some possible explanations that may or may not apply to you. What I am saying is that if you are correct, your results are far from typical and likely to not be reproduced by most people shrug


Not to mention just getting better at it due to repetition.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: GWS

Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.


Can't a person's existing musculature become more efficient during training without any weight gain? You aren't losing muscle fiber, you aren't gaining new muscle fiber, but the muscle fiber you do have becomes more energy efficient such that a person is stronger?




The body will recover and adapt to external stress. If you did not gain a single fiber of muscle you could still see strength gains to a point, then recovery and adaptation become limited. Most likely you will start feeling tired or shitty if you are increasing stress without increasing calories. Proficiency at the lift will feel like a strength gain, when ultimately you just got better at it. For instance, when you really nail deadlift form, the lift feels like it got shorter, when in reality the bar still traveled from the floor to lockout....so unless you grew 6 inches, the bar traveled the same distance.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 10:58 PM

lol

The weight thing is not new for me. I have lifted for many decades. So if anything, my technique is degrading due to aging rather than improving. Next we need to reexamine my quote for the word that seems to have been lost.

Quote:
I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.


I absolutely agree that strength gains (as measured by resistance training) can be made without gaining appreciable muscle mass. I however have trouble believing you can make strength gains with a concurrent loss of muscle mass. Not to mention how shitty you are going to feel training while simultaneously decreasing muscle mass in rapid fashion.

Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
lol

The weight thing is not new for me. I have lifted for many decades. So if anything, my technique is degrading due to aging rather than improving. Next we need to reexamine my quote for the word that seems to have been lost.

Quote:
I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.


I absolutely agree that strength gains (as measured by resistance training) can be made without gaining appreciable muscle mass. I however have trouble believing you can make strength gains with a concurrent loss of muscle mass.



Generally, you can not make strength gains with a concurrent loss of muscle mass. But there's always a few four leaf clovers out there.

Muscle loss with aging, "sarcopenia" is serious and should be addressed with the sick and aging phenotype. To date we still just call it old age and ignore the health risks associated with it.

Back on topic, current studies are now coalescing around the idea that standard nutritional recommendations are inadequate for adults engaged in regular physical activity or physical training programs. This is particularly true of protein for older adults who exhibit a decreased sensitivity to both dietary protein and general physical activity. Practically, older active adults are not getting enough protein, essential amino acids (EAAs) and branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) as part of their diet. Older adults on a Keto type diet will suffer from this.

Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Quote:
Not a direct contradiction I will grant you, but if you read the two studies, the difference in tone from one study to the next is significant.

Agreed. If you were to "follow the money" so to speak, I think you would find biases or at least trends in the views of the various researchers for both studies. Also, not sure if it was clear, but the study I linked compares the results of a ketogenic to a standard diet, with total calories and protein kept the same. Both diets had weight and muscle loss, with more muscle loss recorded in the keto group.

Quote:
Re muscle loss, during this time I have been weight training and my max has increased. I have a hard time with greater levels of strength coinciding with loss of muscle mass for obvious reasons.

Intuitively yes, but It's not unheard of for people to lose muscle mass while dieting but still have their lifts go up. There could also be a energy exertion/lack of tiredness advantage with ketogenic that helps you push out a few extra reps and add some more weight. Or maybe your weight at the start of this thread had a few pounds of post-holiday bloat? I can easily be 5 pounds heavier on a Monday after a rough weekend than I am the following Friday after 4 days of normal eating and exercise.

Again, just throwing out some possible explanations that may or may not apply to you. What I am saying is that if you are correct, your results are far from typical and likely to not be reproduced by most people shrug


Actually, the Atkins induction (first two weeks) stage typically provides closer to ten pounds of weight reduction. Again, we can get into what that weight consists of, but whatever. 5 pounds is actually a fairly shitty result. Age, current levels of stress (high) and not being all that far off my target weight, plus my insistence on my nightly martini probably didn't help.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/14/19 11:40 PM

Quote:
Actually, the Atkins induction (first two weeks) stage typically provides closer to ten pounds of weight reduction. Again, we can get into what that weight consists of, but whatever. 5 pounds is actually a fairly shitty result.

Sure, which is exactly my point. The composition of that weight is important in the grand scheme of things. The Atkins era was mostly focused on weight loss, not total fat loss. Up until a few years ago with the advent of DEXA scans, it was cost prohibitive to accurately assess % body fat changes with diets (and even those methods have sources of errors and limitations), so I don't think the early Atkins adopters and researchers were paying attention to that. They were just happy to hear that people were losing 10 pounds in 2 weeks.

I tried ketogenic a few years ago and easily lost a pound a day for about 10 days, but gained most of it back when I returned to a normal carb intake. Therefore I would expect 5-10 pounds of total weight loss with a keto or atkins diet, but 5 pounds of pure fat loss in 2 weeks with no corresponding muscle or water loss would be an anomoly. Which doesn't make it impossible, because outliers do exist, but based on most research regarding how fast one can lose weight without losing muscle those results are not typical.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 12:10 AM

so, whats the go to maintain muscle mass and drop the body fat %
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
so, whats the go to maintain muscle mass and drop the body fat %


strength training and a clean diet.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 12:14 AM

could you elaborate?
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 01:29 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
could you elaborate?


Corona arm curls and chile rellenos.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 01:35 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
so, whats the go to maintain muscle mass and drop the body fat %

Higher in protein
And expect it to be a slow marathon, not a quick sprint
Take in more calories than youíre burning, but not a lot. Like 5 or 6 more.
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
so, whats the go to maintain muscle mass and drop the body fat %


TRT.
Posted By: keenfish

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: freeride76
could you elaborate?


Corona arm curls and chile rellenos.


This formula has always worked well for me.

Just don't skimp on the arm curls! cheers
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
could you elaborate?


General strength exercises, Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Overhead Press.

Generally you need to be in a caloric surplus to increase muscle mass. There are some exceptions but it's short term.

If your waist is over 40 inches I would worry more about fat loss. Stay in a caloric deficit and limit strength training to two days per week and focus on HIIT and Interval training.

If you're in generally OK shape, track calories and don't obsess about fat. A little fat is meaningless healthwise and once you begin building strength and mass it will take care of itself and you can make diet adjustments later on to fit your physical goals.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
could you elaborate?


Curls in the squat rack.
Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:42 AM

Originally Posted By: ElOgro
Originally Posted By: freeride76
could you elaborate?


Corona arm curls and chile rellenos.


bowdown


Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:43 AM

what is a physical goal?
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 05:19 AM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
what is a physical goal?


Whatever you want them to be. Aesthetic, strength, waist size etc.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 06:01 AM

One key is to be making constant gains while eating super healthy and as little food as possible to make said gains.

Get some of these, S.

https://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-lb-fr...9IaAuAUEALw_wcB

Posted By: freeride76

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 06:30 AM

So where were we on the calorie is a calorie issue.

I thought Hal9000 was a strong proponent and now he's backflipped over the sugar in a banana?
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
So where were we on the calorie is a calorie issue.

I thought Hal9000 was a strong proponent and now he's backflipped over the sugar in a banana?


What I said isn't inconsistent with my original statements. Bananas aren't the same as soda since bananas come with fiber whereas soda does not. However, if you eat too many bananas, or too much of anything, you'll have a caloric surplus.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: freeride76
So where were we on the calorie is a calorie issue.

I thought Hal9000 was a strong proponent and now he's backflipped over the sugar in a banana?


also, one is food while the other isn't. it's not that complicated.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 03:21 PM

Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot


I know this is satire but thereís no reason some couldnít do both. Eat what I want, but a reasonable amount
I can unpack my fat phobia while starting to change the way I eat...
But, I mean, sure, thatís an amusing sarcastic poke at the people looking for excuses to be disgusting pigs
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 05:17 PM



Is there anything funnier than a bunch of grown men arguing over food like they're high school girls?
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 08:01 PM

Building a lot of muscle starts having a profound effect on BF %.

Deadlifting and packing a lot of muscle on your glutes and hamstrings changes the rules.

When you get lean and are building muscle you can eat abusively for a long time and still stay lean if you are still training hard.

But yeah, everyone should be dead lifting.

Squatting too if your back can take it.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Building a lot of muscle starts having a profound effect on BF %.

Deadlifting and packing a lot of muscle on your glutes and hamstrings changes the rules.

When you get lean and are building muscle you can eat abusively for a long time and still stay lean if you are still training hard.

But yeah, everyone should be dead lifting.

Squatting too if your back can take it.



As far back as I can remember Iíve had the ass of a black 1980s MLB player. Squats and deadlifts have made it worse.
Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Iíve had the ass of a black 1980s MLB player


facelick
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Building a lot of muscle starts having a profound effect on BF %.

Deadlifting and packing a lot of muscle on your glutes and hamstrings changes the rules.

When you get lean and are building muscle you can eat abusively for a long time and still stay lean if you are still training hard.

But yeah, everyone should be dead lifting.

Squatting too if your back can take it.



As far back as I can remember Iíve had the ass of a black 1980s MLB player. Squats and deadlifts have made it worse.

I have the same issue
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/15/19 11:19 PM

So I would squat or DL one set once a week and sprint.

Muscular glutes are a gift from Jesus.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
So I would squat or DL one set once a week and sprint.

Muscular glutes are a gift from Jesus.



can I get an amen?

Posted By: ringer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Building a lot of muscle starts having a profound effect on BF %.

Deadlifting and packing a lot of muscle on your glutes and hamstrings changes the rules.

When you get lean and are building muscle you can eat abusively for a long time and still stay lean if you are still training hard.

But yeah, everyone should be dead lifting.

Squatting too if your back can take it.



As far back as I can remember Iíve had the ass of a black 1980s MLB player. Squats and deadlifts have made it worse.


Haha, Dusty Baker.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 02:23 PM

Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?
Posted By: ThaDood

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace


Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.





WINNER WINNER!!, low carb chicken dinner.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ThaDood
Originally Posted By: FecalFace


Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.





WINNER WINNER!!, low carb chicken dinner.



You're just trying to draw iFall into the argument again. Dude. Fat adaptation. Look it up. All the keto blogs have all the best info on it.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000

Is there anything funnier than a bunch of grown men arguing over food like they're high school girls?


It's your thread Susie.
Posted By: ThaDood

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Is there anything funnier than a bunch of grown men arguing over food like they're high school girls?


It's your thread Susie.


roflmao
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Is there anything funnier than a bunch of grown men arguing over food like they're high school girls?


It's your thread Susie.


I never said I wasn't among them.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Is there anything funnier than a bunch of grown men arguing over food like they're high school girls?


It's your thread Susie.


roflmao
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?


I had fresh 'quick bread' this morning for breakfast...Sweetie-pie made me banana pancakes this morning.

On went the peanut butter and a little maple syrup as I watched some storm hype news on the telly.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


The realistic difference between consuming the marketed "healthier" multi-grain breads versus full fat white bread are exactly nothing. If you like bread feel free to enjoy yourself. After all, everything is better on sourdough.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 05:21 PM

Speaking of sourdough, surely there must be some closet bread bakers here....and it is to you I address this question.

To make the ultimate sourdough, have you ever heard of using the wild yeast that grow naturally on fruit?

Specifically, if you have a pear/apple/grape/etc plant, you wait till the apple (or other fruit) is just about to fall off the tree, pick it, then you just chop/mash it up (without washing it), put a little chlorine free water with the mash in a bowl, cover it with a cloth, wait a few days, then scoop out some of the resulting "growth", mix that with some flour and water, let it ferment a bit, then use that as starter to your sourdough bread recipe.

Anyone heard of this or do it? If you have done it, how'd it turn out?

Thanks in advance.





Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 06:40 PM

Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay


Definitely not Rhode Island.

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay


the same people who say stuff like this freak the fvck out when you say that pizza doesn't taste right unless it comes from NJ or NY.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay


the same people who say stuff like this freak the fvck out when you say that pizza doesn't taste right unless it comes from NJ or NY.

Those people are also wrong. The best pizza is 100% on the East Coast. It really is better.

Bagels too
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ThaDood
Originally Posted By: FecalFace


Plus if you're into any kind of activity that remotely requires endurance, you're fuct without carbs.





WINNER WINNER!!, low carb chicken dinner.



You're just trying to draw iFall into the argument again. Dude. Fat adaptation. Look it up. All the keto blogs have all the best info on it.

We've been over it already. Why repeat?
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/16/19 09:39 PM

Tabatas are great for fat loss.

I'm going to start again.
Posted By: OBSurvivor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 12:50 AM

Well after two decades of over indulging , finally sobered up. Epic war lol. Happy now. Only negative - I gained 20 lbs! drowning toilet
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay


the same people who say stuff like this freak the fvck out when you say that pizza doesn't taste right unless it comes from NJ or NY.

Those people are also wrong. The best pizza is 100% on the East Coast. It really is better.

Bagels too



Fair enough. We will agree to agree here. Sourdough from those two places is the only proper sourdough.
Posted By: obslop

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 02:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


i eat the trader joe's gluten free bread all the time. totally cool with it now.
Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 03:38 AM

This thread really hammers home the fact that I need to do my best possible work and hold my standards high when teaching my 1st graders the difference between fact and fiction.

'But, this is the best and you are wrong!' applause2
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: obslop
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


i eat the trader joe's gluten free bread all the time. totally cool with it now.


Frazier Farms does a veggie low carb bread that is delsih for avocado toast.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: obslop
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


i eat the trader joe's gluten free bread all the time. totally cool with it now.


Frazier Farms does a veggie low carb bread that is delsih for avocado toast.



HIV
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: obslop
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


i eat the trader joe's gluten free bread all the time. totally cool with it now.


Frazier Farms does a veggie low carb bread that is delsih for avocado toast.



HIV


You take roids and testosterone.

I'll take AIDS avocado on toast over that shit any time of the day.
Posted By: GWS

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 07:01 PM

Testosterone is your friend.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: FecalFace

i eat the trader joe's gluten free bread all the time. totally cool with it now.

Frazier Farms does a veggie low carb bread that is delsih for avocado toast.



HIV


You take roids and testosterone.

I'll take AIDS avocado on toast over that shit any time of the day.


actually I don't and my hormone levels are fine. Then again I'm not mainlining avocado toast.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace


You take roids and testosterone.

I'll take AIDS avocado on toast over that shit any time of the day.


You would take AIDs over normalized hormone levels? I think we just found the root of your hysterics.
Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 08:06 PM

What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 08:09 PM

Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


not manly enough I guess. you need to eat more steak.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.

It would really help him
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.

It would really help him


Gets more waves than ifall at the pier:

https://positivevibewarriors.com/blogs/news/grom-of-the-week-peter-romaniuk
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


He probably collects the pits and uses them as anal beads.
Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


He probably collects the pits and uses them as anal beads.


and not the small ones

Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.


Artificial? No.

It was Lance Armstrong's friend tho.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/17/19 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


He probably collects the pits and uses them as anal beads.


roflmao
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


He probably collects the pits and uses them as anal beads.


Probably? Are you afraid to commit you pussy. You gave fecalT his best change at raging hard on in months....and then threw a "probably" in there. Once again he's left with trying to row a boat with a rope.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


There's nothing wrong with it per se. It just something you should keep to yourself....like eating an ice cream cone or a banana in public.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 12:05 AM

Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


You've gotten duller over time. Eat a steak and get ahold of yourself.
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


He probably collects the pits and uses them as anal beads.


Probably? Are you afraid to commit you pussy. You gave fecalT his best change at raging hard on in months....and then threw a "probably" in there. Once again he's left with trying to row a boat with a rope.


I said "probably" because I wasn't sure they had the diameter to satisfy you after your World Cup exhibition.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 02:00 AM

No worries there. Iím like a one man ďThe AristocratsĒ show. Ta da.
Posted By: ringer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 02:45 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Sourdough only tastes right when made in the Bay Area or around the Monterey Bay


the same people who say stuff like this freak the fvck out when you say that pizza doesn't taste right unless it comes from NJ or NY.

Those people are also wrong. The best pizza is 100% on the East Coast. It really is better.

Bagels too


All of the above is correct. True sourdough only comes from the central/north CA coast. The truly good NY/NJ-style pizza and bagels only come from there. It's water and climate and cultchah...
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.

It would really help him


Gets more waves than ifall at the pier:

https://positivevibewarriors.com/blogs/news/grom-of-the-week-peter-romaniuk


Derp. Has nothing to do with me, this conversation, or anything else

But its good to see you're tracking little kids, creep
Posted By: StuAzole

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.

It would really help him


Gets more waves than ifall at the pier:

https://positivevibewarriors.com/blogs/news/grom-of-the-week-peter-romaniuk


Derp. Has nothing to do with me, this conversation, or anything else

But its good to see you're tracking little kids, creep


Who has more T, you or the 10 year old?
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: GWS
Testosterone is your friend.

It would really help him


Gets more waves than ifall at the pier:

https://positivevibewarriors.com/blogs/news/grom-of-the-week-peter-romaniuk


Derp. Has nothing to do with me, this conversation, or anything else

But its good to see you're tracking little kids, creep


Who has more T, you or the 10 year old?


First creeping on little boys, now you want to discuss their hormone levels? Sicko!
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


You've gotten duller over time.


It's probably the avocados. shrug
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


You've gotten duller over time.


It's probably the avocados. shrug


As far as a spread goes, I would say avocados are far superior to mayo, mustard, ketchup, etc.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


No trap, I'm not an a-hole like fecal or hap...
If I were to eat bread I think I'd go old style, my own sourdough starter & 3 ingredients, flour, water, salt.
There a few flour mills around were you can get the real stuff
Your body digests & processes this differently than anything you can buy
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


No trap, I'm not an a-hole like fecal or hap...
If I were to eat bread I think I'd go old style, my own sourdough starter & 3 ingredients, flour, water, salt.
There a few flour mills around were you can get the real stuff
Your body digests & processes this differently than anything you can buy


Based on other comments, you should go up to Monterey or San Francisco and make it there.


There was some internet buzz about all sourdough bread being gluten free, but I think thatís only true under certain circumstances. ( Those circumstances being when you can say pretty much anything Is true without any evidence or it being actually true. )
Too bad, cuz Iíd love some sourdough bread, but no gluten for me.
Uh oh. Is coat hanger gonna call me a fag now?
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 11:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy


There was some internet buzz about all sourdough bread being gluten free, but I think thatís only true under certain circumstances. ( Those circumstances being when you can say pretty much anything Is true without any evidence or it being actually true. )


Rather than try to say something intelligent about sour dough bread being gluten free, I'll let this do this talking instead.

Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/18/19 11:46 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback


I'm not an a-hole


roflmao
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


You've gotten duller over time.


It's probably the avocados. shrug


As far as a spread goes, I would say avocados are far superior to mayo, mustard, ketchup, etc.



I wouldn't consider ketchup or mustard to be "spreads". This might start a whole new fight.
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:32 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


You've gotten duller over time.


It's probably the avocados. shrug


As far as a spread goes, I would say avocados are far superior to mayo, mustard, ketchup, etc.



I wouldn't consider ketchup or mustard to be "spreads". This might start a whole new fight.


Do you them straight out of the jar or do you "spread" them on bun/bread/steak to mask the fact that the main entree is sh*t?

Now THAT will start a fight.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


You've gotten duller over time.


It's probably the avocados. shrug


As far as a spread goes, I would say avocados are far superior to mayo, mustard, ketchup, etc.



I wouldn't consider ketchup or mustard to be "spreads". This might start a whole new fight.


Do you them straight out of the jar or do you "spread" them on bun/bread/steak to mask the fact that the main entree is sh*t?

Now THAT will start a fight.



If you use a knife to scoop it from the jar and if you use said knife to spread the substance, it is a spread. Also, if it comes in a bottle, as opposed to a jar, it is not a spread. It's a sauce.


Ok, next discussion:

Twix, Kit Kats, and Reese's peanut butter cups.......candy bars or just candy?
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice


It's probably the avocados. shrug


As far as a spread goes, I would say avocados are far superior to mayo, mustard, ketchup, etc.



I wouldn't consider ketchup or mustard to be "spreads". This might start a whole new fight.


Do you them straight out of the jar or do you "spread" them on bun/bread/steak to mask the fact that the main entree is sh*t?

Now THAT will start a fight.



If you use a knife to scoop it from the jar and if you use said knife to spread the substance, it is a spread. Also, if it comes in a bottle, as opposed to a jar, it is not a spread. It's a sauce.


Ok, next discussion:

Twix, Kit Kats, and Reese's peanut butter cups.......candy bars or just candy?


I see your logic re: that and it makes sense. But don't people spread those condiments with a knife, generally speaking?


Those candies are just that, candies. Snickers, Milky Way, Mars, etc. are candy bars.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Kento


I see your logic re: that and it makes sense. But don't people spread those condiments with a knife, generally speaking?


Those candies are just that, candies. Snickers, Milky Way, Mars, etc. are candy bars.


If I see someone spreading ketchup with a knife they're getting pimp-slapped.

Mustard is where it gets complicated: yellow mustard from a squired bottle is a sauce. But on dark mustard, which comes from a jar and is spread with a knife......I'm gonna have to make a ruling on this........I'm calling it a spread.



I say kit kat is a candy wafer. I consider Twix a cookie treat. Reese's is a candy. Yet they're all grouped among the candy bars.

What about Chunky?

And what the fvck do we even do about Klondike bars? Popsicle, frozen candy bar, ice cream sandwich? What the fvck?
Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


You've gotten duller over time. Eat a steak and get ahold of yourself.


And yet you've gotten sharper, like a wet booger.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/19/19 04:35 PM

Is steak keto? It's very high in protein. Shouldn't it have more fat?
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/20/19 06:00 AM

Have we talked yet about the desirability of good genetics?
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/20/19 06:17 AM

Originally Posted By: HarryLopez
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: jkb
What's wrong with avocado on toast shrug


Coat Hanger, are there other foods that you also relate to sexuality? Or just avocados? Is this related to a certain event or experience with avocados?


You've gotten duller over time. Eat a steak and get ahold of yourself.


And yet you've gotten sharper, like a wet booger.



Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/20/19 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Have we talked yet about the desirability of good genetics?



oh, now you've done it.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/20/19 06:07 PM

Some people do really well on a keto diet.

I think they should do it if it works for them.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/20/19 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Some people do really well on a keto diet.

I think they should do it if it works for them.


Exactly
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/21/19 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Some people do really well on a keto diet.

I think they should do it if it works for them.


Exactly


Exactly.

And stop preaching to those who're not on keto and also do well.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/21/19 01:26 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Some people do really well on a keto diet.

I think they should do it if it works for them.


Exactly


Exactly.

And stop preaching to those who're not on keto and also do well.



exactly.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/21/19 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Some people do really well on a keto diet.

I think they should do it if it works for them.


Exactly


Exactly.

And stop preaching to those who're not on keto and also do well.



exactly.


That's what I've been saying
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/21/19 03:15 PM

Finally, a common sense approach that actually works:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/201...think-slow-carb

Slow carb.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/22/19 04:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


No trap, I'm not an a-hole like fecal or hap...
If I were to eat bread I think I'd go old style, my own sourdough starter & 3 ingredients, flour, water, salt.
There a few flour mills around were you can get the real stuff
Your body digests & processes this differently than anything you can buy


Based on other comments, you should go up to Monterey or San Francisco and make it there.


There was some internet buzz about all sourdough bread being gluten free, but I think thatís only true under certain circumstances. ( Those circumstances being when you can say pretty much anything Is true without any evidence or it being actually true. )
Too bad, cuz Iíd love some sourdough bread, but no gluten for me.
Uh oh. Is coat hanger gonna call me a fag now?
cowabunga
rg


Not at all.

I was at Starbucks ordering a soy milk extra non fat latte that they apparently prepared too close to the bakery goods. I immediately went into gluten shock. I'm only here today because a mobility trainer recognized what was happening and quickly rubbed CBD oil on my lifelines.

Make believe conditions are nothing to poke fun at.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/22/19 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


No trap, I'm not an a-hole like fecal or hap...
If I were to eat bread I think I'd go old style, my own sourdough starter & 3 ingredients, flour, water, salt.
There a few flour mills around were you can get the real stuff
Your body digests & processes this differently than anything you can buy


Based on other comments, you should go up to Monterey or San Francisco and make it there.


There was some internet buzz about all sourdough bread being gluten free, but I think thatís only true under certain circumstances. ( Those circumstances being when you can say pretty much anything Is true without any evidence or it being actually true. )
Too bad, cuz Iíd love some sourdough bread, but no gluten for me.
Uh oh. Is coat hanger gonna call me a fag now?
cowabunga
rg


Not at all.

I was at Starbucks ordering a soy milk extra non fat latte that they apparently prepared too close to the bakery goods. I immediately went into gluten shock. I'm only here today because a mobility trainer recognized what was happening and quickly rubbed CBD oil on my lifelines.

Make believe conditions are nothing to poke fun at.



Oh, my god.....are you gonna pull through? You are so brave.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/23/19 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: laidback
Out of curiosity, what kind of bread do you guys eat?

In a Keto thread?
Is this some kind of a trap?
For a while I used cheese slices as bread.
Now I pretty much stick to Trader Joeís gluten free multi grain.
cowabunga
rg


Lol
Douche

What do Keto people suggest for when youíre just getting over a stomach virus and need something bland
Usually itís crackers, toast, rice or pastina. Itís all carbs!!!
What do the Keto people do?
Relevant due to my recent intestinal distress issues
cowabunga
rg

No trap, I'm not an a-hole like fecal or hap...
If I were to eat bread I think I'd go old style, my own sourdough starter & 3 ingredients, flour, water, salt.
There a few flour mills around were you can get the real stuff
Your body digests & processes this differently than anything you can buy


Based on other comments, you should go up to Monterey or San Francisco and make it there.


There was some internet buzz about all sourdough bread being gluten free, but I think thatís only true under certain circumstances. ( Those circumstances being when you can say pretty much anything Is true without any evidence or it being actually true. )
Too bad, cuz Iíd love some sourdough bread, but no gluten for me.
Uh oh. Is coat hanger gonna call me a fag now?
cowabunga
rg


Not at all.

I was at Starbucks ordering a soy milk extra non fat latte that they apparently prepared too close to the bakery goods. I immediately went into gluten shock. I'm only here today because a mobility trainer recognized what was happening and quickly rubbed CBD oil on my lifelines.

Make believe conditions are nothing to poke fun at.

Posted By: ReefTeef

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/23/19 12:27 AM

Cut almost all carbs and went from 185lbs to 158lbs within 3 months. Been going to the gym/ keeping up with the diet for 2 years now and went from looking like Al Bundy to Conor McGregor.
Posted By: manbearpig

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/24/19 09:28 PM

Any good resources people have found for this diet?

Thinking about doing it as itís not really that far off of my current ďdietĒ anyway from the little I know about it.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/24/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Any good resources people have found for this diet?

Thinking about doing it as itís not really that far off of my current ďdietĒ anyway from the little I know about it.


as with most things, Reddit is a great resource: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/

crowd-sourced, well-moderated, informative, supportive, BS is quickly dispatched. a hive mind, much like here.
Posted By: stu dog

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/24/19 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Any good resources people have found for this diet?

Thinking about doing it as itís not really that far off of my current ďdietĒ anyway from the little I know about it.


been looking at it after weighing in 10lbs heavier at the doctor. done diet dairies and calorie restriction before. end of it I'm feeling tired and super light headed. changing up my breakfast and dinner to be more keto. plus have to stay away from chips lunch and/or work snack which is my killer. don't really want to give up my weekend beer for a month or so yet.

done this one for breakfast week 1 with some hot sauce was good
https://mealpreponfleek.com/recipe/greek-egg-bake/

going try these ones:
https://joyfilledeats.com/keto-breakfast-pockets/
https://www.castironketo.net/blog/keto-breakfast-potatoes?rq=breakfast

for snack did these this week. they're ok, but you can tell how good regular flour & sugar make things
https://alldayidreamaboutfood.com/low-carb-blueberry-pancake-bites/

dinner: oven roast sausage links from TJ's + veggies worked well.

basic take away I'm getting is: almond or coconut flour as replacements. need to get fake sugar. get creative with turkey sausage patties. cauliflower rice is a good alternative. The turnips instead of potatoes might be something that wouldn't mind. Week one went well. haven't got into adding cheeses yet, besides the morning eggs. some info on what veggies to stick with https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/vegetables
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/24/19 10:46 PM

these are pretty tasty, if you're in the mood for pasta: miracle noodles

zero carb - actually more like ramen and less like pasta, but let's you get your noodle fix without the carbs/calories. made from some kind of root, i believe
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/24/19 10:49 PM

For a snack, have you tried our little rebellion protein crisps?
Theyíre really good, and way healthier than normal chips
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 01:49 AM

Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Any good resources people have found for this diet?

Thinking about doing it as itís not really that far off of my current ďdietĒ anyway from the little I know about it.


I'd ask around at your local CBD store, they usually know everything about everything.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 02:52 PM

https://www.outsideonline.com/2382501/shawn-baker-carnivore-diet-test
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Any good resources people have found for this diet?

Thinking about doing it as itís not really that far off of my current ďdietĒ anyway from the little I know about it.


as with most things, Reddit is a great resource: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/

crowd-sourced, well-moderated, informative, supportive, BS is quickly dispatched. a hive mind, much like here.

I'll concur. /r/keto and its related subs like /r/ketogains are some of the best resources on the internet.

We're going to have a weight loss contest in our department starting in February. I'm already the skinniest guy but I think I can cut a good portion still. I might try pure carnivore for a month.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 04:07 PM


I read this yesterday. Going to try a month
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 04:24 PM

I think the milage may vary.

But I think some people legitimately thrive on in.

I could do. I think. I should try for a month.

I'm would drink a little wine and hard stuff.

I think the variation would be good. A form of hormesis.

WH Dana in "two year before the mast" said, he thrived on a diet made exclusivity of meat and red wine when he was working in Dana Point on a big Spanish ranch.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 04:28 PM

There's no way I could do that forever. The Plains Indians lived mainly on red meat during the horse period.

I need to read Two Years Before the Mast again.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I think the milage may vary.

But I think some people legitimately thrive on in.

I could do. I think. I should try for a month.

I'm would drink a little wine and hard stuff.

I think the variation would be good. A form of hormesis.

WH Dana in "two year before the mast" said, he thrived on a diet made exclusivity of meat and red wine when he was working in Dana Point on a big Spanish ranch.



Did he get gout?
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot


We're going to have a weight loss contest in our department starting in February. I'm already the skinniest guy but I think I can cut a good portion still. I might try pure carnivore for a month.


start bulking up fast, you only have a week to set your baseline. I'm thinking Popeyes for breakfast and lunch would be a good start
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: the janitor
Originally Posted By: ifallalot


We're going to have a weight loss contest in our department starting in February. I'm already the skinniest guy but I think I can cut a good portion still. I might try pure carnivore for a month.


start bulking up fast, you only have a week to set your baseline. I'm thinking Popeyes for breakfast and lunch would be a good start


Pork rinds dipped in ice cream for every meal with Cheesecake Factory for snacks! jam_on

Cut carbs to 20% of intake (mostly from fruit), average of 1,800 calorie deficit per day, down 13 pounds in 17 days. Stocked. Told my wife when I get down to target weight, buying a new board. To which she says, are you selling your old one? Too funny. roflmao
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I think the milage may vary.

But I think some people legitimately thrive on in.

I could do. I think. I should try for a month.

I'm would drink a little wine and hard stuff.

I think the variation would be good. A form of hormesis.

WH Dana in "two year before the mast" said, he thrived on a diet made exclusivity of meat and red wine when he was working in Dana Point on a big Spanish ranch.



Did he get gout?


I believe that genetics can influence gout, age too.

The point is that one size doesn't fit all.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: the janitor
Originally Posted By: ifallalot


We're going to have a weight loss contest in our department starting in February. I'm already the skinniest guy but I think I can cut a good portion still. I might try pure carnivore for a month.


start bulking up fast, you only have a week to set your baseline. I'm thinking Popeyes for breakfast and lunch would be a good start

Eating pizza with cookies for dessert would be a far better weight gain program for me
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/25/19 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: the janitor
Originally Posted By: ifallalot


We're going to have a weight loss contest in our department starting in February. I'm already the skinniest guy but I think I can cut a good portion still. I might try pure carnivore for a month.


start bulking up fast, you only have a week to set your baseline. I'm thinking Popeyes for breakfast and lunch would be a good start

Eating pizza with cookies for dessert would be a far better weight gain program for me


Oh, you going to be in ny or nj?
Sounds like in this weight loss challenge, some people are going to have a big fat advantage over others
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/26/19 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
There's no way I could do that forever. The Plains Indians lived mainly on red meat during the horse period.


I suppose one could argue that was one benefit the Spanish brought to the Native Americans (the introduction of the horse).... drowning

Anyway, this paper provides some context for earlier human civilization life expectancy....lots of red meat or not.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/26/19 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: stu dog
almond or coconut flour as replacements. need to get fake sugar.


Do what you have to do but I'd highly recommend staying away from "fake sugar " it's not worth it....do you really need it?

I still have a bag of almond flour stashed somewhere.....
Posted By: stu dog

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 04:56 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: stu dog
almond or coconut flour as replacements. need to get fake sugar.


Do what you have to do but I'd highly recommend staying away from "fake sugar " it's not worth it....do you really need it?

I still have a bag of almond flour stashed somewhere.....


I'm only using it for backing. Never been a sugar person.
Feeling good a week into Keto-ish. Turnips are a good substitute for breakfast potatoes. Califlower rice ainít that bad
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 06:21 AM

Originally Posted By: sussle
these are pretty tasty, if you're in the mood for pasta: miracle noodles

zero carb - actually more like ramen and less like pasta, but let's you get your noodle fix without the carbs/calories. made from some kind of root, i believe


Best to rinse those first before cooking
Posted By: afoaf

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 05:24 PM



why do they poop so much?

I feel like you poop less on high protein...especially if he also
cut out the high fiber vegetables.

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: afoaf


why do they poop so much?

I feel like you poop less on high protein...especially if he also
cut out the high fiber vegetables.



The carnivore diet is extremely fvcking stupid, especially considering that we're omnivores.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 06:54 PM

Triggered!
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/27/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: sussle
these are pretty tasty, if you're in the mood for pasta: miracle noodles

zero carb - actually more like ramen and less like pasta, but let's you get your noodle fix without the carbs/calories. made from some kind of root, i believe


Best to rinse those first before cooking
yup, just follow the directions.
Posted By: Iceman

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/29/19 09:46 PM



Pulled from IG. Genius
Posted By: stu dog

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/29/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
these are pretty tasty, if you're in the mood for pasta: miracle noodles

zero carb - actually more like ramen and less like pasta, but let's you get your noodle fix without the carbs/calories. made from some kind of root, i believe


those are at Ralphs too. in the tofu section
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/29/19 10:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Iceman


Pulled from IG. Genius


roflmao
Posted By: Duffy

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/29/19 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: afoaf


why do they poop so much?

I feel like you poop less on high protein...especially if he also
cut out the high fiber vegetables.



The carnivore diet is extremely fvcking stupid, especially considering that we're omnivores.


Iím on a carnivore diet.




Iím also simultaneously on a vegan diet.


Itís incredibly easy.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 01/30/19 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: afoaf


why do they poop so much?

I feel like you poop less on high protein...especially if he also
cut out the high fiber vegetables.



The carnivore diet is extremely fvcking stupid, especially considering that we're omnivores.


Iím on a carnivore diet.




Iím also simultaneously on a vegan diet.


Itís incredibly easy.


somehow it makes sense.
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/07/19 10:56 PM

Although modified it to allow fruits and veggies, combined with a solid amount of exercise (say, 85% cardio, 15% weights), have dropped 18 pounds in one month. Kinda mindblowing actually. Definitely works and works well. jam_on
Posted By: Kento

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/07/19 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot

I read this yesterday. Going to try a month


Let me know if you ever want to hit up AYCE Korean BBQ for lunch. Cheaper than Agora and pure carnivorous bliss. jam_on
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 01:03 AM

is anyone still on the keto diet?
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 05:48 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the kento diet?


steel reserve, larb & pastor w/ 20w has gotta be close to island life, no?
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 12:41 PM

I hate a bunch of stew meat yesterday in one feeding at around noon. That was all I ate.

I can eat once a day when I just eat meat.

I like eating plants and shit and drinking beer and wine.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 02:57 PM

https://instagram.com/5barbeef?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=16s04gh8vc2u6
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


It is a trend. A year from now we'll be talking about some other diet trend.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 06:54 PM

Yesterday's lunch. I guess I'm a fag.

Backyard avocados on toast carbohydrates sugar. bawling

Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Yesterday's lunch. I guess I'm a fag.

Backyard avocados on toast carbohydrates sugar. bawling


+1. I ate 2 avocado halves (in public) yesterday. I filled the pit holes with Tapatio facelick
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.

Practically anyone who loses significant amounts of body fat is better off in terms of cardiovascular health than they were when they were overweight, even if they still eat a lot of fatty foods. Assuming they keep the weight off, of course.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.

Full fucktard. In multiple ways
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.


They're all dead now....I didn't know
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:43 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.


They're all dead now....I didn't know


Do you know someone who's been on Keto for "decades"?

That's what I thought.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 07:52 PM

Your baseline cholesterol is mainly determined by your genetics and your %body weight. You can be very lean with a low fat diet, but if your parents had high cholesterol there is not much you can do. Beyond that, most of the cholesterol in your body is created within your own body, and is determined by your total body fat. Your diet, independent of how it affects your weight, makes a marginal difference in your cholesterol numbers.

The best way to fight heart disease is to not get fat. You are better off lean on a high fat diet than fat on a low fat diet.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Yesterday's lunch. I guess I'm a fag.

Backyard avocados on toast carbohydrates sugar. bawling



Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.


They're all dead now....I didn't know


Do you know someone who's been on Keto for "decades"?

That's what I thought.


I actually know more people who have died after eating "low fat" for decades
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Your baseline cholesterol is mainly determined by your genetics and your %body weight. You can be very lean with a low fat diet, but if your parents had high cholesterol there is not much you can do. Beyond that, most of the cholesterol in your body is created within your own body, and is determined by your total body fat. Your diet, independent of how it affects your weight, makes a marginal difference in your cholesterol numbers.

The best way to fight heart disease is to not get fat. You are better off lean on a high fat diet than fat on a low fat diet.
fwiw, just saw a cardiologist - something of a star in his area, i understand - he tells me statins (high cholo meds) cuts everyone's risk of a major coronary event by 30%, right across the board. i fought it for a few years, telling my doc i can deal with high cholo by making diet changes...but i could never make a dent in my cholo numbers. fvck it, i'm in - statins for life...@ about $15 per year, i can live with it.

btw, if your doc suggests a cardiac calcium score test, take it....takes a picture of your arteries and measures plaque build-up. eye-opening, to say the least.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle

btw, if your doc suggests a cardiac calcium score test, take it....takes a picture of your arteries and measures plaque build-up. eye-opening, to say the least.


Can a person readily get rid of the calcium on their own?

I mean, without drinking a bottle of acidic wine a week. drunk
Posted By: bird.

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/08/19 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.


They're all dead now....I didn't know


Do you know someone who's been on Keto for "decades"?

That's what I thought.


I actually know more people who have died after eating "low fat" for decades


I've known several people who died after living for decades shrug
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 12:03 AM

Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 12:39 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Yesterday's lunch. I guess I'm a fag.

Backyard avocados on toast carbohydrates sugar. bawling



That 99 cent store steak knife makes you a cheap fag.

That thing is fuckingTerrible. What is wrong with you?
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 12:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: sussle

btw, if your doc suggests a cardiac calcium score test, take it....takes a picture of your arteries and measures plaque build-up. eye-opening, to say the least.


Can a person readily get rid of the calcium on their own?

I mean, without drinking a bottle of acidic wine a week. drunk
apparently not, if i understood the doc correctly. the statins might make a slight reduction (less than 1%), but otherwise no.

this is my doc - he seems to be something of an evangelist on the subject of heart health: https://www.getmorefromyourscore.com
Posted By: ghostshaper

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 01:52 AM

i thought the problem w/ long term high fat diets is the kidney failure shrug
Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 02:28 AM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
is anyone still on the keto diet?

What's funny is you think its some hot trend when people have lived sustainably on this diet for decades


Yes, except it was called Dr. Atkins diet and all those people are dead from heart attacks.


They're all dead now....I didn't know


Maybe Gromsdad could cull the Keto and Atkins diet. Saving lives after all.
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 04:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


That 99 cent store steak knife

That thing is fuckingTerrible. What is wrong with you?


https://www.ebay.com/i/223333125693?chn=ps

It's a vintage knife laugh







Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: _____
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


That 99 cent store steak knife

That thing is fuckingTerrible. What is wrong with you?


https://www.ebay.com/i/223333125693?chn=ps

It's a vintage knife laugh









I always cut myself when I have sharp stuff around.

Carelness is a thing
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 06:17 PM

Knife snobs are the worst.

It's a piece of metal that cuts things. I have more important things to spend my money on.


And it's Bed Bath and Beyond, not 99Ę store. smile2

I was actually shopping for knives the other day and some dude was telling me I should get a $400 knife because it's totally worth it. GTFO
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Knife snobs are the worst.

It's a piece of metal that cuts things. I have more important things to spend my money on.


And it's Bed Bath and Beyond, not 99Ę store. smile2

I was actually shopping for knives the other day and some dude was telling me I should get a $400 knife because it's totally worth it. GTFO

A sharp and durable knife is good, but yeah no need to spend anywhere near that much.

LaGuilles are great steak knives, you can get a set without breaking the bank computer
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Knife snobs are the worst.

It's a piece of metal that cuts things. I have more important things to spend my money on.


And it's Bed Bath and Beyond, not 99Ę store. smile2

I was actually shopping for knives the other day and some dude was telling me I should get a $400 knife because it's totally worth it. GTFO

A sharp and durable knife is good, but yeah no need to spend anywhere near that much.

LaGuilles are great steak knives, you can get a set without breaking the bank computer


They look pretty faggy to me. wink2


https://store.moma.org/kitchen-dining/co...DIaAuAxEALw_wcB

I like a sharp knife but I'm not excited about spending more then a $100 for a set.
But I see they are $55 on Amazeon so I may give Bezos some money in order to restore my masculinity.
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 07:10 PM

It's only geey if you buy the rainbow set hat
You can get sets of 6-8 for around $50-60ish on amazon cookin
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 07:10 PM

yea!
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


yeah that seals it, this thread is way more triggering

Is redwood duff keto shrug
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 09:41 PM

Backyard avacados are gold.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/09/19 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: laidback
Backyard avacados are gold.


I hear they're the gerbils of the fruit world.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 02:16 PM

I want to jump the fence and steal the avocados.
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.


Too sweet for ceviche?
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 04:56 PM

Bearse Limes taste great and produce pretty well on the coast cookin
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.


Too sweet for ceviche?


They're sweeter than oranges, like no tartness at all.

I don't even know why they're called limes.
Posted By: laidback

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.



Sounds perfect with ice cold vodka
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 11:01 PM

Good one. Maybe margarita mix too.

I know they look like lemons but they are sweet limes and they're sweet AF

Just picked some. smile2

#humblebrag #notketo







Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 11:34 PM

Juice the limes, freeze them into cubes, add to drinks.
Candy the rinds.
Ferment them and see what happens.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: HarryLopez
Juice the limes, freeze them into cubes, add to drinks.
Candy the rinds.
Ferment them and see what happens.


I like all that!

Will report on the fermentation. drunk

It always takes an enormous amount of self control not to buy these and devour it every time I'm in Trader Joe's



Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/10/19 11:49 PM

I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: the janitor


Backyard avocados cussing

I'm not sure who has microagressed me worse, this or Subway's tavarua thread


roflmao

If it sounds like I'm bragging, it's only because as someone who grew up in a city with extreme seasons, I'm forever fascinated with the fact that I walk out of my back door in January and pick avocados and citrus straight from the trees. smile2


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.

Nature is a trip.

North SD county is insane for growing shit.

I threw poppy seeds in the back yard before the last rain.


I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.

i want a box of sweet limes. i want your avocados, too. in fact, i want your backyard. applause2
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:16 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Fresh is a relative term with avocados because they don't ripen on the tree, so you can't eat them "fresh".

Which is great because you can pick them all year at your leisure, depending on the need.

The ones I picked today will probably be ready in a week to 10 days.

But yeah, you're missing out man. 🥑🥑🥑🥑🥑🥑🥑
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:20 AM

Originally Posted By: sussle
i want a box of sweet limes. i want your avocados, too. in fact, i want your backyard. applause2


You'll have to wait for that box until I find out how fermentation goes. facelick drunk

I like the ice cube idea.

If you're in Oside come and pick some.
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:56 AM

Did you plant that sweet lime tree after watching Darjeling Limited? dancing
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 02:16 AM

Originally Posted By: _____
Did you plant that sweet lime tree after watching Darjeling Limited? dancing


Haha, no but now I'll have to watch it again even though it's my least favorite WA film. dancing

I just went to the nursery like a dummy without any research, saw sweet lime label hanging and thought sweet, sweet lime.

Just reading about it now, it is a cross between citron and bitter orange and its technical name is "limetta" or "mosambi".
Apparently native to Iran and India, hence I thought it was called Persian Lime but oh no, that's Bearss lime. confused
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 02:34 AM

Are those haas? I get haas from the farmers market and they look almost exactly the same but the skins are nearly black instead of green like yours, and your flesh looks a little different (more water content, or lighter green flesh). To be overly specific, Hilltop Canyon Farm avos in Carp. They're the best I've ever had and I eat at least one per day.
Yeah, not to turn it into a WE/film thread but you got it and I sort of agree (the outdoor camp one was my least fav) cheers
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Fresh is a relative term with avocados because they don't ripen on the tree, so you can't eat them "fresh".

Which is great because you can pick them all year at your leisure, depending on the need.

The ones I picked today will probably be ready in a week to 10 days.

But yeah, you're missing out man. &#129361;&#129361;&#129361;&#129361;&#129361;&#129361;&#129361;



Yeah, I get the thing about not being tree ripe, but I always think it's best to have the food at its source. Like, I don't think you can properly eat pineapple anywhere but Hawaii. Tomatoes, blueberries, watermelon....New Jersey. Peaches....Georgia, etc.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 02:54 AM

Originally Posted By: _____
Are those haas? I get haas from the farmers market and they look almost exactly the same but the skins are nearly black instead of green like yours, and your flesh looks a little different (more water content, or lighter green flesh). To be overly specific, Hilltop Canyon Farm avos in Carp. They're the best I've ever had and I eat at least one per day.
Yeah, not to turn it into a WE/film thread but you got it and I sort of agree (the outdoor camp one was my least fav) cheers


No this is Fuerte, much bigger and meatier. I have Haas too but it didn't produce that well this year, it decided to have a growth spurt instead. shrug

We already turned the Keto thread into the avocado and citrus thread so turning it into the WA thread wouldn't be the worst thing. smile2
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Good one. Maybe margarita mix too.

I know they look like lemons but they are sweet limes and they're sweet AF

Just picked some. smile2

#humblebrag #notketo








All of that stuff is keto unless you're actually eating the lime and not just using the juice.

Avocado is a keto/low-carb/etc staple

#themoreyouknow
Posted By: ifallalot

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?

Yes. A lot
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?

Yes. A lot


Thanks, Obama!
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 05:12 PM

I try to eat an avacodo a day
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ifailalot
All of that stuff is keto unless you're actually eating the lime and not just using the juice.


How do you figure that. thought

Sweet lime juice is pure sugar.

If you eat it at least you get fiber.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I try to eat an avacodo a day


It keeps constipation at bay.


Cholesterol too but that doesn't rhyme.
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000

Yeah, I get the thing about not being tree ripe, but I always think it's best to have the food at its source. Like, I don't think you can properly eat pineapple anywhere but Hawaii. Tomatoes, blueberries, watermelon....New Jersey. Peaches....Georgia, etc.


That's just silly. You can find all of those locally grown at the farmer's market and some grocery stores. I bought papayas, blueberries and passion fruit grown in Goleta on Saturday. They also grow pineapples at that same farm. "Fresh avocados" is kind of a silly term since they don't ripen on the tree. Mexico and CA ship "breakers" everywhere, and they're every bit as good as "the source" when they get to you, maybe still unripe.

Read page 8 here to get a better understanding California Avocados
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 06:37 PM

Quote:
Two mature avocado trees can provide enough oxygen for a family of four


Whoa if true.

I'm well oxygenated.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: _____
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Yeah, I get the thing about not being tree ripe, but I always think it's best to have the food at its source. Like, I don't think you can properly eat pineapple anywhere but Hawaii. Tomatoes, blueberries, watermelon....New Jersey. Peaches....Georgia, etc.


That's just silly. You can find all of those locally grown at the farmer's market and some grocery stores. I bought papayas, blueberries and passion fruit grown in Goleta on Saturday. They also grow pineapples at that same farm. "Fresh avocados" is kind of a silly term since they don't ripen on the tree. Mexico and CA ship "breakers" everywhere, and they're every bit as good as "the source" when they get to you, maybe still unripe.

Read page 8 here to get a better understanding California Avocados



Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000

Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


And the Pixies sucked, Breeders/Kim Deal 4 Life! roflmao

Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: _____
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


And the Pixies sucked, Breeders/Kim Deal 4 Life! roflmao




Now you're getting it.
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 09:42 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Serious? We have a ton of avo farms around here and a few friends that work or own them. Local avos are the best food period.
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/11/19 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: _____
Did you plant that sweet lime tree after watching Darjeling Limited? dancing


smile2
Posted By: ringer

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Serious? We have a ton of avo farms around here and a few friends that work or own them. Local avos are the best food period.


This is an essential truth.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 03:42 AM

Originally Posted By: ringer
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Serious? We have a ton of avo farms around here and a few friends that work or own them. Local avos are the best food period.


This is an essential truth.


I was serious, I was wondering if they're really better if purchased locally.
Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 04:08 AM

Nothing to do with some fruity diet... saw a PBS story about how recently Mexico flooded the market with 140 million tons of avos shipped in 1 week. Some rep from the CA Avocado growers said that 140 million tons was how much CA produces in a whole season. Nuts!
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 05:01 AM

Originally Posted By: HarryLopez
Nothing to do with some fruity diet... saw a PBS story about how recently Mexico flooded the market with 140 million tons of avos shipped in 1 week. Some rep from the CA Avocado growers said that 140 million tons was how much CA produces in a whole season. Nuts!

Super bowl Sunday for the win hat Avocados were super cheap and ripe in the week leading up to Super bowl cookin
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 05:53 AM

They can be ripe anytime you want them to be ripe. That's the beauty of growing avocados.
You don't have to worry about the crop going bad if left on the tree.

Unlike what I'm going with sweet limes. Candied lime skins and frozen cubes FTW. Cheers Harry.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/12/19 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifailalot
All of that stuff is keto unless you're actually eating the lime and not just using the juice.


How do you figure that. thought

Sweet lime juice is pure sugar.

If you eat it at least you get fiber.

yup, you got it right...he's got it backwards.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 05:12 AM

Originally Posted By: _____
Originally Posted By: hal9000

Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


And the Pixies sucked, Breeders/Kim Deal 4 Life! roflmao





Was that nice to go down on?
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 06:42 AM

It's like those Choose your own Adventure books

I ordered that at my favorite breakfast spot in Solvang and ate it without the thpoon right there on the sidewalk. mmm

or

I sh1tcanned the banana and cone, ate the papaya, and dumped the avo over my salmon poke for lunch.
Posted By: rice

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Originally Posted By: ringer
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: hal9000
I've never had a fresh avocado from California. Am I missing anything?


Serious? We have a ton of avo farms around here and a few friends that work or own them. Local avos are the best food period.


This is an essential truth.


I was serious, I was wondering if they're really better if purchased locally.


Our local ones are insanely better than the ones at the stores.
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 09:07 PM

+1
Hilltop Canyon farms in Carp- most avocado-ee of avos ever. The butter of avos jam_on bowdown
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifailalot
All of that stuff is keto unless you're actually eating the lime and not just using the juice.


How do you figure that. thought

Sweet lime juice is pure sugar.

If you eat it at least you get fiber.

yup, you got it right...he's got it backwards.


So ifail is not really eating keto and he's ripped. Hmmm.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/13/19 10:05 PM

He read the diet backwards! foreheadslap
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: bird.
I've known several people who died after living for decades shrug


I certainly appreciate your gallows humor, bird.

Made me laugh even as I remember the dead.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Quote:
Two mature avocado trees can provide enough oxygen for a family of four


Whoa if true.

I'm well oxygenated.


I bet you are oxygenating the neighbors downwind of you before yourself.

I thought most of a person's O2 comes from ocean plants.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:30 AM

Originally Posted By: _____
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger


That 99 cent store steak knife

That thing is fuckingTerrible. What is wrong with you?


https://www.ebay.com/i/223333125693?chn=ps

It's a vintage knife laugh



Sweetie-pie inherited some knives from the grand folk that date back to the late 1800s from some Chicago factory.

They look cool and all, the aged wood handles are burnished nicely, but man, that steel is soft...the edge fades quick even with the sharpening steel in near constant use.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.


Time to make lemoncello.

I give it away for holiday gifts.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace

I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.


You got a significant other?

No?

Join the 'Want to Date a Persian' website and say whatever, then add

"...and the best thing about me is my Persian sweet lime. Even if the date doesn't work out, I'll give you a sack of limes."

Ok, so I have no idea if that would help you have a good date or get a date, but at least you'd get rid of some limes and have something to do on Wednesday night for a while.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: hal9000
Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


There are a few blueberry farms up around Chico that get cold enough and on good acidic soil to make pretty good blueberries.

But yeah, I know what you are getting at with regards to blueberries...best ones I ever had were up in the NW. Same with a lot of other berries. Mmm, Olallieberries.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 01:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: FecalFace

I did a dumb thing and planted a sweet Persian lime and it's going nuts with fruit.
They taste pretty great but they are neither oranges or limes, way too sweet.

I somebody knows a good recipe or wants a box of sweet limes LMK.


You got a significant other?

No?

Join the 'Want to Date a Persian' website and say whatever, then add

"...and the best thing about me is my Persian sweet lime. Even if the date doesn't work out, I'll give you a sack of limes."

Ok, so I have no idea if that would help you have a good date or get a date, but at least you'd get rid of some limes and have something to do on Wednesday night for a while.


roflmao

I think I'll stick with candied lime skins and ice cubes.
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.


Time to make lemoncello.

I give it away for holiday gifts.


Love limoncello.

So what's the process? Maybe Harry was onto something with fermentation?
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 01:25 AM

I'm going list on you! laugh

1. Re knives: That one is serrated, I assume you're referring to handmade knives that require sharpening.
2. Epic idea, zest the sweet limes, soak them in Everclear, make sweet lime simple syrup. SweetlimeCello -> bowdown
3. I've currently got a convenient agreement. I don't have to listen to her talk about her work day, drama, or get asked about mine. It's usually lunch break dancing so it doesn't cut into anything I have planned for the night or interfere with work or anything else other than skipping eating at lunch time.
4. Maybe I haven't had good blueberries. The ones I get range from extra tart (acidic?) to super sweet and mild. They're usually so mixed with other ingredients, I can't tell the difference. Ignorance is bliss.
5. To add flame to this Keto thread, I had my first Pliny the Younger DELICIOUS MALT & CARB FERMENTED BEVERAGE facelick today.
My take is:
5a. I'm glad I never waited in line for this beer.
5b. I can't imagine waiting 12 hours at the brewery, or today early in the morning in the rain, wind and cold for a free wristband, especially when there was zero line or wait to get one at lunch time (also possibly my first ever "lunch beer")
5c. It's good, tastes like Pliny the Elder but thicker and more boozy. I think it was probably considered great 10 years ago, more accessible now, but a lot has happened with beer and IPA since and the out-hop-you-bro phase is sorta dead.
5d. I'm curious to see if there are reports of "it was better before the Windsor facility".
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 01:47 AM

Originally Posted By: _____
I'm going list on you! laugh

1. Re knives: That one is serrated, I assume you're referring to handmade knives that require sharpening.
2. Epic idea, zest the sweet limes, soak them in Everclear, make sweet lime simple syrup. SweetlimeCello -> bowdown
3. I've currently got a convenient agreement. I don't have to listen to her talk about her work day, drama, or get asked about mine. It's usually lunch break dancing so it doesn't cut into anything I have planned for the night or interfere with work or anything else other than skipping eating at lunch time.
4. Maybe I haven't had good blueberries. The ones I get range from extra tart (acidic?) to super sweet and mild. They're usually so mixed with other ingredients, I can't tell the difference. Ignorance is bliss.
5. To add flame to this Keto thread, I had my first Pliny the Younger DELICIOUS MALT & CARB FERMENTED BEVERAGE facelick today.
My take is:
5a. I'm glad I never waited in line for this beer.
5b. I can't imagine waiting 12 hours at the brewery, or today early in the morning in the rain, wind and cold for a free wristband, especially when there was zero line or wait to get one at lunch time (also possibly my first ever "lunch beer")
5c. It's good, tastes like Pliny the Elder but thicker and more boozy. I think it was probably considered great 10 years ago, more accessible now, but a lot has happened with beer and IPA since and the out-hop-you-bro phase is sorta dead.
5d. I'm curious to see if there are reports of "it was better before the Windsor facility".


My son lives a short walk from there. Lemme know if youíre gonna be in the area again, heís a local.
Posted By: sussle

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


There are a few blueberry farms up around Chico that get cold enough and on good acidic soil to make pretty good blueberries.

But yeah, I know what you are getting at with regards to blueberries...best ones I ever had were up in the NW. Same with a lot of other berries. Mmm, Olallieberries.
huckleberries....never even seen them outside of Idaho, but man are they good. Idaho locals guard huckleberry patch locations like surfers do with spots.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 02:57 AM

huckleberry buttermilk pancakes.

Holyfuckiingshitfuckketo~
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 04:05 AM

He's in Windsor? I was up there around Thanksgiving and pass through a few times per year. Cool area up there.
Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: _____
I'm going list on you! laugh

1. Re knives: That one is serrated, I assume you're referring to handmade knives that require sharpening.
2. Epic idea, zest the sweet limes, soak them in Everclear, make sweet lime simple syrup. SweetlimeCello -> bowdown
3. I've currently got a convenient agreement. I don't have to listen to her talk about her work day, drama, or get asked about mine. It's usually lunch break dancing so it doesn't cut into anything I have planned for the night or interfere with work or anything else other than skipping eating at lunch time.
4. Maybe I haven't had good blueberries. The ones I get range from extra tart (acidic?) to super sweet and mild. They're usually so mixed with other ingredients, I can't tell the difference. Ignorance is bliss.
5. To add flame to this Keto thread, I had my first Pliny the Younger DELICIOUS MALT & CARB FERMENTED BEVERAGE facelick today.
My take is:
5a. I'm glad I never waited in line for this beer.
5b. I can't imagine waiting 12 hours at the brewery, or today early in the morning in the rain, wind and cold for a free wristband, especially when there was zero line or wait to get one at lunch time (also possibly my first ever "lunch beer")
5c. It's good, tastes like Pliny the Elder but thicker and more boozy. I think it was probably considered great 10 years ago, more accessible now, but a lot has happened with beer and IPA since and the out-hop-you-bro phase is sorta dead.
5d. I'm curious to see if there are reports of "it was better before the Windsor facility".


That was your first lunch beer?

Are you 12?
Posted By: _____

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 05:02 PM

On a work day during the week? Probably.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.


Time to make lemoncello.

I give it away for holiday gifts.


Love limoncello.

So what's the process? Maybe Harry was onto something with fermentation?


My recipe:

20 lemons from my front yard
3-4 cups of sugar in 5 cups of water...depends on how sweet you like things
Two bottles of decent vodka

Get the vegetable peeler and take the skin off the lemons. Just the yellow part, not the white pith.
Put shaved skin in glass container, pour on a bottle of booze.
Cover container, wait 30 days.
Put sugar in water, boil 10 minutes.
Pour hot sugar water on lemon peels and add 2nd bottle of hootch.
Cover and wait 30 days.
Strain through coffee filter into clean bottles.

I don't appreciate the "creamsicle" style lemoncello, but if you do, don't use fat free milk product. Add it slowly so that the ethanol content keeps the milkfat disolved...too much milk, you get clumps, and that can taste ok, but looks/feels icky.

Lots of ways to use it, from icy cold shots, to a few drips added to a martini, to spooning in a little to Sunday morning waffles, to a teaspoon in a tall glass of soda water on a hot day.

PS
Squish the juice of the 20 lemons and there is your vitamin C for the next week.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: sussle
Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: hal9000
Certain fruits produced in certain states are trash. California blueberries, for example. I wouldn't feed them to a goat.


There are a few blueberry farms up around Chico that get cold enough and on good acidic soil to make pretty good blueberries.

But yeah, I know what you are getting at with regards to blueberries...best ones I ever had were up in the NW. Same with a lot of other berries. Mmm, Olallieberries.
huckleberries....never even seen them outside of Idaho, but man are they good. Idaho locals guard huckleberry patch locations like surfers do with spots.


There are "secret" patches on the sides of most volcanoes in the Cascades. One of the better ones that I know of is right on the Pacific Crest Trail just north of the burn area near 10 U 658442.0 m E by 4354470 m N. No stepping in bear poop.
Posted By: hal9000

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 08:09 PM

I've never had a huckleberry. Do they taste like blueberries? I'll put a wild blackberry above any other berry. A beach plum is pretty damn good too.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 09:13 PM

The huckleberries I am familiar with taste better than all but the best blueberries. Commercial blueberries can be over-watered and that dilutes the taste and makes the flesh too soft.

More detail on both here.


See that reddish ground cover, huckleberries galore. Just keep an eye out for the nearly hibernating bear looking to pack in a few more calories.

Posted By: jkb

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 10:17 PM

Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax


My lemon tree is off the hook right now. Too many lemons.


Time to make lemoncello.

I give it away for holiday gifts.


Love limoncello.

So what's the process? Maybe Harry was onto something with fermentation?


My recipe:

20 lemons from my front yard
3-4 cups of sugar in 5 cups of water...depends on how sweet you like things
Two bottles of decent vodka

Get the vegetable peeler and take the skin off the lemons. Just the yellow part, not the white pith.
Put shaved skin in glass container, pour on a bottle of booze.
Cover container, wait 30 days.
Put sugar in water, boil 10 minutes.
Pour hot sugar water on lemon peels and add 2nd bottle of hootch.
Cover and wait 30 days.
Strain through coffee filter into clean bottles.

I don't appreciate the "creamsicle" style lemoncello, but if you do, don't use fat free milk product. Add it slowly so that the ethanol content keeps the milkfat disolved...too much milk, you get clumps, and that can taste ok, but looks/feels icky.

Lots of ways to use it, from icy cold shots, to a few drips added to a martini, to spooning in a little to Sunday morning waffles, to a teaspoon in a tall glass of soda water on a hot day.

PS
Squish the juice of the 20 lemons and there is your vitamin C for the next week.


Nice, thanks Mr.Doof.

When you store it for 30 days, I presume you don't refrigerate it?

I'm weary about adding too much sugar because the sweet limes are not tart at all, sugar would make it even sweeter.

The recipes I found online are basically just putting lemon peels in the vodka drunk but I like your recipe better. cheers
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/14/19 11:34 PM

Correct, not refrigerated.

I am unsure how the Persian Lime peel tastes. I can't think there is much sweetness in it. No putting any juice in the mix.....just make lemonade from the fruit squishings and let the shaved skin soak.

Half of the use of the sugar is to add viscosity and mouthfeel to the resulting beverage, the other is to cut the bitterness of the lemon oil in the peel, and the third 1/2 is for preservation laugh

My recipe isn't much different from "soak the skins you shaved off the lemon in vodka", but really, there is a time element to it (don't store in sunlight or a hot room either, make sure the container is airtight, etc) and a process element to it that makes for a better product. But if you use cheap likker, well, just don't. Am a fan of Skyy or Tito's. Don't go extra super premium, but no going cheap.

I like it best in a tall glass over ice with fizzy water and mint from the garden on those warm summer nights (that we rarely have).
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 01:12 AM

Tito's for sure.

I read somewhere that they recommend blanching the citrus skins couple of times to get rid of the bitterness but I'm sure that would also kill the flavor.

I also found out that I mistakenly called it "Persian Lime" which apparently refers to Bearss lime. It's confusing.

Wish I had more lemons and bearss limes, those trees are not producing much this year.

I'll report how it goes. smile2 drunk
Posted By: Derrik

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 11:56 AM

Many of you are fired up and ready to start the moment you learn about the ketogenic diet. This is especially grand if youíre newly diagnosed. Now is the time to jump in and make the most impact. Hit
it with all youíve got! The step-by-step guidelines in this book and other resources noted here will get you started down the right road
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 04:17 PM

I made it a day and then drank a beer.

Just one.

Did that take me out of ketosis?
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Derrik
Many of you are fired up and ready to start the moment you learn about the ketogenic diet. This is especially grand if youíre newly diagnosed. Now is the time to jump in and make the most impact. Hit
it with all youíve got! The step-by-step guidelines in this book and other resources noted here will get you started down the right road

Cool bro, you gotta podcast? shaka
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Derrik
Many of you are fired up and ready to start the moment you learn about the ketogenic diet. This is especially grand if youíre newly diagnosed. Now is the time to jump in and make the most impact. Hit
it with all youíve got! The step-by-step guidelines in this book and other resources noted here will get you started down the right road


Have you tried DMT?
Posted By: grapedrink

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Derrik
Many of you are fired up and ready to start the moment you learn about the ketogenic diet. This is especially grand if youíre newly diagnosed. Now is the time to jump in and make the most impact. Hit
it with all youíve got! The step-by-step guidelines in this book and other resources noted here will get you started down the right road


Have you tried DMT?

roflmao
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/15/19 09:00 PM

It's happening. smile2



shocked

Posted By: HarryLopez

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/16/19 02:13 AM

Grew up with preserved lemon peel as one of many choices at the crackseed store. This is how we would do it, others had different ways. Get sterilized glass jar and lid. Hot water would get the wax off if there was any, just rinse well if no wax. Pack in jar with layers of salt, layers of lemons. Roll/flip every couple days for week then let sit about 6 weeks. Use the rind for sucking on when throat is sore. Or chop up on chicken or fish. Made a chimichurri like thing as well. Save the leftover salt as well for use. shrug
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/16/19 02:29 AM

Originally Posted By: HarryLopez
Grew up with preserved lemon peel as one of many choices at the crackseed store. This is how we would do it, others had different ways. Get sterilized glass jar and lid. Hot water would get the wax off if there was any, just rinse well if no wax. Pack in jar with layers of salt, layers of lemons. Roll/flip every couple days for week then let sit about 6 weeks. Use the rind for sucking on when throat is sore. Or chop up on chicken or fish. Made a chimichurri like thing as well. Save the leftover salt as well for use. shrug


Chicharrůn en salsa verde, pozole rojo, coronitas frias.

Aloha
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/16/19 02:35 AM

Originally Posted By: FecalFace
It's happening. smile2



shocked



redemption!

I've finally spied one (1) thing that my former yard grows better than yours (other than mold, moss, ferns, mushrooms and salamanders). Rosemary hat
Posted By: FecalFace

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/16/19 06:31 AM

lulz. That rosemary bush was huge but decided to dry out for no reason. I was going to pull it out all together but decided to leave the few green clumps that were left and now it looks like itís coming back. smile2
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/19/19 06:02 PM

Bees love rosemary.
Posted By: the janitor

Re: Can we talk about the keto diet? - 02/19/19 07:46 PM

also lavender, which my former yard could also support, though I don't have photo evidence than mine were better than Fecal's
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