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herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water

Posted By: bergie

herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 03:26 PM

I have a lower back injury for alomost 4 months now and each time I think I get better I don't.Seing physio chiro nothing worked yet.Any ideas exercice how to get better?I'm getting a carver skatebard to stay in shape but any other way? Getting an mri next week to really see whats going on
Thanks
Posted By: Who's Your Daddy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 03:46 PM

Forget the MRI... READ THIS BOOK FIRST!
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 04:19 PM

.
Where does it hurt? Does it restrict movement?

A skateboard for staying in shape? What if the best prognosis comes from nothing but rest? In that case you will never recover. Hold off on skate boarding until you know more.
..
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:00 PM

Pain does not restrain only when i bent and lift numbbess in leg and weakness sometimes too in legs. now neck pain. doc and physio tell me to stay active but often make it worst
Posted By: Who's Your Daddy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: bergie
Pain does not restrain only when i bent and lift numbbess in leg and weakness sometimes too in legs. now neck pain. doc and physio tell me to stay active but often make it worst


Read the book. Chances are you'll see yourself on almost every page. Don't be so dismissive!
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Who's Your Daddy
Originally Posted By: bergie
Pain does not restrain only when i bent and lift numbbess in leg and weakness sometimes too in legs. now neck pain. doc and physio tell me to stay active but often make it worst


Read the book. Chances are you'll see yourself on almost every page. Don't be so dismissive!


everyone i know who's read that book has been fixed by it, incl me.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:08 PM

Numbness = nerve trauma.

You don't want to traumatize your nerves.
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:42 PM

I will order the book for sure. Make me worry for the nerves for sure.
Posted By: test_article

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:45 PM

Forget the book. Sarno is a quack.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Numbness = nerve trauma.

You don't want to traumatize your nerves.


I tend to agree here.
I'm not a fan of Sarno tbh, even though he is miles ahead of some of the other more established ideas out there.
He just went a bit too far off the deep end imo.
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Numbness = nerve trauma.

You don't want to traumatize your nerves.


I tend to agree here.
I'm not a fan of Sarno tbh, even though he is miles ahead of some of the other more established ideas out there.
He just went a bit too far off the deep end imo.


well his vast legions of no-longer-handicapped by pain fans are all stocked to have taken the plunge.

how do you explain the stunning %'s and #'s of 5* book e-reviews written by prior sufferers?
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Numbness = nerve trauma.

You don't want to traumatize your nerves.


I tend to agree here.
I'm not a fan of Sarno tbh, even though he is miles ahead of some of the other more established ideas out there.
He just went a bit too far off the deep end imo.


well his vast legions of no-longer-handicapped by pain fans are all stocked to have taken the plunge.

how do you explain the stunning %'s and #'s of 5* book e-reviews written by prior sufferers?



People tend to heal injuries and resolve pain all on their own with no intervention whatsoever.
It's the biggest confound out there.

He just tends to lean on the psychosocial elements too heavily imo.
While that may be helpful too many, it's not painting an accurate picture.

It's a question of "useful lies" much like the Kitty Genovese story.

I have no doubt the book has proven useful to many, but the biopsychosocial pain model encompasses more than what i've seen of what Sarno promotes.

"All pain is neurogenic." != "Your emotions etc caused your pain."
Posted By: brukuns

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 06:40 PM

Dude, a friend of mine had a tiny fracture on a lower vertebrae (don't ask me which, I have no idea), and also discovered a small disk hernia.

He is struggling to get back to surfing longer sessions, but at the same time he is going crazy with exercises, swimming a lot (we actually swim together at the same gym), Krav Maga twice a week, as well as some other random exercises.

It's been almost one year... just like you described, when he thinks he will get better, he doesn't. I don't think he should be doing all that exercise, but at least he is in the greatest shape of his life despite being injured...

2 important things:

1. Surfing makes it worse. He surfs for 1:30 hours and leave... he says it then hurts more than usual for a couple days. One thing is worse the surfing though...

2. A carver board is the worst thing you can do. If there's one thing my buddy completely abandoned after getting hurt was his carver board. He says it absolutely wreaks his back, more than anything else.

So to sum it up, a carver board is a big no no.
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Numbness = nerve trauma.

You don't want to traumatize your nerves.


I tend to agree here.
I'm not a fan of Sarno tbh, even though he is miles ahead of some of the other more established ideas out there.
He just went a bit too far off the deep end imo.


well his vast legions of no-longer-handicapped by pain fans are all stocked to have taken the plunge.

how do you explain the stunning %'s and #'s of 5* book e-reviews written by prior sufferers?



People tend to heal injuries and resolve pain all on their own with no intervention whatsoever.
It's the biggest confound out there.

He just tends to lean on the psychosocial elements too heavily imo.
While that may be helpful too many, it's not painting an accurate picture.

It's a question of "useful lies" much like the Kitty Genovese story.

I have no doubt the book has proven useful to many, but the biopsychosocial pain model encompasses more than what i've seen of what Sarno promotes.

"All pain is neurogenic." != "Your emotions etc caused your pain."


i see.

and so by your logic it was mere coincidence that my "chronic" back pain of 4yrs stopped w/i 2 wks of having read the book (9yrs ago w/o any relapse) ?

i (and my legions!) am clearly more an "expert" on the book's effectiveness than you.

imo your cynical theories here do a cruel disservice to those who might have also benefited by reading it. shameonyou

if you have a strong argument against his works, why must you rely on blatant mis-quoting?
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf


i see.

and so by your logic it was mere coincidence that my "chronic" back pain of 4yrs stopped w/i 2 wks of having read the book (9yrs ago w/o any relapse) ?


I nowhere mention coincidence, i'm only pointing towards finer distinctions.
In fact it was probably, for you and your legions, "just what you needed to hear".

The biopsychosocial model incorporates almost everything Sarno promotes, but gives it proper context.

Ignoring biological change is almost as harmful as assuming mesodermal changes are what caused the pain, or are still causing it.


Quote:

i (and my legions!) am clearly more an "expert" on the book's effectiveness than you.

imo your cynical theories here do a cruel disservice to those who might have also benefited by reading it. shameonyou

if you have a strong argument against his works, why must you rely on blatant mis-quoting?


Likewise the Kitty Genovese story is still recited as truth in textbooks across the land.

Conversely, a skeptic might now read it knowing it's value in relation to its shortcomings.

I use the quote function for actual quotes, in case you missed that.
Paraphrasing, typically with sarcasm added, is better suited to the "".


Take the "smudging" described here:



That's a biological change to the brain.
How do you suggest a book is going to help with that, no less immmediately?
Reading a book instead of sticking to PT could on the other hand allow such biological changes to occur.
That's real harm.
Posted By: Thrustless

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 07:19 PM

Have your MD prescribe you a DosePack to give you a leg up then suit up, paddle out and work through it. It took me months to work through mine but I eventually did. Worst part was getting in and out of the suit (and car and motorcycle and bed!).
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Reading a book instead of sticking to PT could on the other hand allow such biological changes to occur...


and nyet it was your legion of pt's (et al - the doc said i would need to get surgery) who informed me in no uncertain terms that my back was fubar'd and who, in all their expertise failed to make my pain any less severe (i'm not dissing on pt's, but clearly there's much more going on with most back pain than MEATs the eye).

reading that book did the exact opposite even tho my xray from neck down looks like evil kneivel's.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Reading a book instead of sticking to PT could on the other hand allow such biological changes to occur...


and nyet it was your legion of pt's (et al - the doc said i would need to get surgery) who informed me in no uncertain terms that my back was fubar'd and who, in all their expertise failed to make my pain any less severe (i'm not dissing on pt's, but clearly there's much more going on with most back pain than MEATs the eye).

reading that book did the exact opposite even tho my xray from neck down looks like evil kneivel's.



Don't lump me in with some imaginary group, i already said Sarno is miles ahead of some more established ideas. shameonyou

Surgery should be a last resort and even then its efficacy is questionable in many, many cases.

Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 07:41 PM

Another good reading list here:
https://www.painbc.ca/content/recommended-reading-viewing-and-links
Posted By: nimby

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 08:28 PM

"According to Sarno, the mind tricks you into not facing repressed emotion by making you focus on pain in the body. When this realization sinks in ("and it must sink in, for mere intellectual of the process is not enough"), the trick doesn't work any more, and there's no need for the pain"

Hilarious horseshit. Waiting for the posts how 'my back was cured through yoga and fresh kale'

Injuries are real, back injuries can be debilitating. Get the MRI, hear what your doc thinks, and strongly reccomend seeing a sport medicine physiatrist for a second opinion, they are nerve, muscle, and bone experts who treat injuries through PT programs designed to offset the injury, and only recommend surgery as a last resort.

And stay off the balance board, if you do have herniated discs, and they are bulging, last thing you need to do is put more lateral torque on them.
Posted By: santacruzin

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 08:44 PM

I cured my back issues though strengthening the crap out of my core?
Posted By: rice

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: nimby
"According to Sarno, the mind tricks you into not facing repressed emotion by making you focus on pain in the body. When this realization sinks in ("and it must sink in, for mere intellectual of the process is not enough"), the trick doesn't work any more, and there's no need for the pain"

Hilarious horseshit. Waiting for the posts how 'my back was cured through yoga and fresh kale'

Injuries are real, back injuries can be debilitating. Get the MRI, hear what your doc thinks, and strongly reccomend seeing a sport medicine physiatrist for a second opinion, they are nerve, muscle, and bone experts who treat injuries through PT programs designed to offset the injury, and only recommend surgery as a last resort.

And stay off the balance board, if you do have herniated discs, and they are bulging, last thing you need to do is put more lateral torque on them.


I am so glad I don't have to contemplate advice like this, anymore.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: nimby
"According to Sarno, the mind tricks you into not facing repressed emotion by making you focus on pain in the body. When this realization sinks in ("and it must sink in, for mere intellectual of the process is not enough"), the trick doesn't work any more, and there's no need for the pain"

Hilarious horseshit. Waiting for the posts how 'my back was cured through yoga and fresh kale'

Injuries are real, back injuries can be debilitating. Get the MRI, hear what your doc thinks, and strongly reccomend seeing a sport medicine physiatrist for a second opinion, they are nerve, muscle, and bone experts who treat injuries through PT programs designed to offset the injury, and only recommend surgery as a last resort.

And stay off the balance board, if you do have herniated discs, and they are bulging, last thing you need to do is put more lateral torque on them.



Well that didn't take long and thus the danger of Sarno's work, the baby goes out with the bathwater.


Injuries are real but so are chronic pain symptoms in the absence of any injury, or long after any injuries are healed.

Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 10:11 PM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm



perhaps, but his papers and format cater to clinicians whereas sarno was able to dumb it down to a short book for us unwashed masses. in the end who's helped more sorebacks?
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: nimby
"According to Sarno, the mind tricks you into not facing repressed emotion...


must've skipped that chapter crazy2
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: santacruzin
I cured my back issues though strengthening the crap out of my core?


That' what im focus on right now as long not too painful
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: brukuns
Dude, a friend of mine had a tiny fracture on a lower vertebrae (don't ask me which, I have no idea), and also discovered a small disk hernia.

He is struggling to get back to surfing longer sessions, but at the same time he is going crazy with exercises, swimming a lot (we actually swim together at the same gym), Krav Maga twice a week, as well as some other random exercises.

It's been almost one year... just like you described, when he thinks he will get better, he doesn't. I don't think he should be doing all that exercise, but at least he is in the greatest shape of his life despite being injured...

2 important things:

1. Surfing makes it worse. He surfs for 1:30 hours and leave... he says it then hurts more than usual for a couple days. One thing is worse the surfing though...

2. A carver board is the worst thing you can do. If there's one thing my buddy completely abandoned after getting hurt was his carver board. He says it absolutely wreaks his back, more than anything else.

So to sum it up, a carver board is a big no no.


Im not surfing at all and don't think i'll skate a lot too.Been told to stay active too but sometimes not sure either is that good as I get pain in neck now but focusing on core strenghning now.
Thanks for you input
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Thrustless
Have your MD prescribe you a DosePack to give you a leg up then suit up, paddle out and work through it. It took me months to work through mine but I eventually did. Worst part was getting in and out of the suit (and car and motorcycle and bed!).


How many months in took you? Nothing got prescribe other than robax and ibuprofen.pain isn't a issue its more each time I lift bent or twist it hurt and numbness in legs for a few days.Car is bad and bed too. focusing on my core now and see what the mri show.
Posted By: Who's Your Daddy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 11:05 PM

What did I do with that LMAO@UDumDums handle?

This thread is degenerating as fast as the human spine.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm



perhaps, but his papers and format cater to clinicians whereas sarno was able to dumb it down to a short book for us unwashed masses. in the end who's helped more sorebacks?


Do you see the contradiction in your post?

cheers
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/01/14 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: bergie
Originally Posted By: Thrustless
Have your MD prescribe you a DosePack to give you a leg up then suit up, paddle out and work through it. It took me months to work through mine but I eventually did. Worst part was getting in and out of the suit (and car and motorcycle and bed!).


How many months in took you? Nothing got prescribe other than robax and ibuprofen.pain isn't a issue its more each time I lift bent or twist it hurt and numbness in legs for a few days.Car is bad and bed too. focusing on my core now and see what the mri show.



It's not your core, you can be almost sure of that.
If those exercises make you feel less pain that's another thing entirely, and that should be what makes you decide to do them.

WRT to the MRI:

Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 01:28 AM

Do you know what Dorko recommends for back treatment?
Posted By: kurtisp

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:12 AM

Strained the fvk o my lower lumber last weekend, overexertion work out then heavy yard work. Spasms that night. Next day caught flu (confirmed by MD (swab) even though I got the shot). Spastic Coughing and retching is not an ideal companion to back spasm. Went to MD, got my first shot of Toradol in the glute. 2 hrs later fever down from 102 to 99, pain down 60%. Flexeril q 8hrs as needed. Even better today. No narcotics needed. Up and moving and doing mobility. There was no amount of affective self therapy that would have gotten me from point A to B in such a manner. I do that chit for a living btw.

I empathize with individuals with a variety of somatoform. Pain n pleasure hijack logic with a vengeance. Neuropsychologists tend to deal with this well. But the individual needs readiness. The author of said book facilitates that well. I do like the BPS model - I'm surprised its "new"?

Bottom line is, whatever works for you is best. But that does not make it a universal application. Try many approaches (responsibly) and have reliable feedback measures.

cheers
Posted By: Thrustless

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:36 AM

Originally Posted By: bergie
Originally Posted By: Thrustless
Have your MD prescribe you a DosePack to give you a leg up then suit up, paddle out and work through it. It took me months to work through mine but I eventually did. Worst part was getting in and out of the suit (and car and motorcycle and bed!).


How many months in took you? Nothing got prescribe other than robax and ibuprofen.pain isn't a issue its more each time I lift bent or twist it hurt and numbness in legs for a few days.Car is bad and bed too. focusing on my core now and see what the mri show.


I would say it took me 6 months to get over it. Had I not been active and surfing, I feel it would have taken a LOT longer. The DosePack is not for pain. It's a steroid-type thing that reduces inflammation. Not only will your back feel better but the rest of your joints as well.
Posted By: sohaole

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:45 AM

Better your core, better your score at almost everything.
the pain will probably always be there coming and going.
I've been dealing with it for over a decade, but when I started
training, my pain is more manageable. Find what stretches work for you, and
what makes your back feel better.

I train Muy Thai, and Jiu Jitsu, and I'm in the best shape of my life
42 and surfing better than ever.

good luck with your back.

Johnny
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 04:31 AM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm



perhaps, but his papers and format cater to clinicians whereas sarno was able to dumb it down to a short book for us unwashed masses. in the end who's helped more sorebacks?


Do you see the contradiction in your post?

cheers


i only see those in other people's posts. shrug
Posted By: feralseppo

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 04:44 AM

about 11 years ago I had an MRI had 3 herniated discs in the low back. Some days wasn't sure I could make it out of my office to my car. Driving home was a painful experience.

I saw about 5 different doctors. The surgeons would obviously only say surgery. Problems eased after taking two Medrol packs and living off Vioxx too bad that stuff isn't around anymore. Stay away from the Chiros and I doubt PT is going to do much for you. I had a chiro do an adjustment on me when I had my problems and I almost passed out and the guy said chiro wasn't going to help.

For another angle, you can try Ming Chew's book at http://www.permanentpaincure.com His theory is the fascia that surrounds your muscles builds up with scare tissue and it needs to be broken down and reabsorbed by the body. Friend of mine flew to NY to see him when he was about to have surgery for a torn rotator cuff and ongoing back problems. He said he is good as new today.

I was rear ended about 6 months ago and my back problems came back. I've been following the stretches and regimen in Ming Chew's book and it takes the pain away and puts things right. Discs problems can come from things like your psoas muscles shortening up from sitting behind a desk too much like I do. Oddly, hiking up hills does wonders for my back as well.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 04:48 AM

Just do deadlifts.
Posted By: neinfore

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 09:42 AM

been surfing for over three years now, at a rate of about 250-300 days per annum, with a fractured L5, slipped L4 and ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY ZERO DISC BETWEEN L4/L5.....

...my advice to you is the following.

the single best way to get back in the water quickly witth a lumbar injury is to GET BACK IN THE WATER NOW!!!

work through the pain, find comfortable ways to paddle, etc.... DO NOT LEAVE THE WATER THOUGH!!!

at the very least, swim in a lap pool!!!

personally, i have to clench my butt cheeks, bend my legs at the knees and cross my ankles, all the while keeping my gluts engaged and the ties pointing outwards... it looks funny and painful as hell, but i paddle faster than most without the back injury still!!! catch more waves!!! have more fun!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

peas,
9'4''
Posted By: neinfore

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 09:45 AM

ties pointing outward = toes pointing outward...

gotta board a plane, good luck!
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 12:03 PM

i didn't read the thread yet, but read the book...
i've had no back pain since i read it like a bunch of years
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 01:36 PM

Could back pain be an expression of mental stress?

Yeah.

But not all back pain is caused by mental stress.

Thank you.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 01:47 PM

not all back pain is caused by mental stress, but reading a book isn't all that invasive, and the recovery fime from reading a book is pretty quick, and, i mean, the book might not be covered by insurance, but it's available in libraries, for, like, free
so, i mean, like, why not read the book?
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:00 PM

I read the book and so many others.

I don't feel like I have gotten any closer to the truth, other than it's complicated.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:21 PM

i didn't feel like it got me closer to the truth, but i wan't really thinking about the truth, or getting close to it
i just haven't thrown my back out
reality mattered more than truth.

my wife went to a for sciaticaish issues. he was talking about the mind body connection with respect to pain, so i asked him what he thought of sarno's book.
he said sarno used to send him a lot of patients until he wrote his own book
he said sarno's book has helped a lot of people
he said he believes sarno's view is mind OVER matter, as opposed to mind body CONNECTION

i looked at it as splitting hairs, at the high level i gave a sh*t about
this doc is a pretty big deal, and well known as the ncaa dr, but his book never took off like sarno's

my wife's been getting better since her initial appointment with him
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Norm'

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:27 PM

If there's obvious nerve involvement, it's structural. shrug
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:36 PM

i didn't mean to imply that i think that that there's never a structural issue that needs to be addressed through physical stuff.
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 02:46 PM

What do you guys think of Mcgill?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsup3ZvzAjU
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
i didn't read the thread yet, but read the book...
i've had no back pain since i read it like a bunch of years
cowabunga
rg


severe back pain made me very grumpy. 24/7 for years i was really struggling to be nice on the outside.

i still remember when someone here (wyd?) back in '05 reccommended a stupid book to fix what I GODDAMN KNEW was my structurally ganked up back. but the stupid book only cost $8 on amazon.

i was pissed off with pain as i began reading the stupid book, hating that i'd spent even $8 for what i presumed was some quack telling me this serious back injury was all in my head...

so yeah i remember how it felt when someone recommends a stupid book for what you KNOW is not fixable by simply reading.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I read the book and so many others.

I don't feel like I have gotten any closer to the truth, other than it's complicated.





The problem with books is that they are rarely heavy enough to help your posterior chain or affect thoracic mobility. You're problem as you've described it comes from permanent nerve damage. Your body can overcome this by adaption and become functional again but you need to let your body adapt to this injury the way it was designed to. Stretching and targeting certain areas of your body for lower back pain is like changing the oil and spark plugs on a engine, or adding that stop a leak stuff.....It's preventive maintenance. You need a rebuild.
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: VonMeister
...but you need to let your body adapt to this injury the way it was designed to...


nicely worded. that's the cliff notes for the book.

hanging from a pullup bar and pullups were a major help, as was a religious building up of my abs and side lateral obliques. glucosamine should be re-labled "wd40 for joints."
Posted By: Norm'

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:33 PM

I'm writing a book to overcome compound fractures, through meditation.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Norm'
If there's obvious nerve involvement, it's structural. shrug


That's never obvious though now is it?
I mean obviously the brain qualifies as a "structure" but i'm guessing that's not what you mean.

One can have all sorts of sensations in a limb that doesn't even exist, and when those receptors and the associated nerves aren't even there.
That includes itching, "numbness," tingling and pain.
Couple that with the biological changes to the brain that are paralleled in phantom limb pain and those suffering chronic pain and then you have a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.

Is that structural, new neurons?
Probably not in the way most people are using the term i'd wager but it's clearly "hardware not software".
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: VonMeister
...but you need to let your body adapt to this injury the way it was designed to...


nicely worded. that's the cliff notes for the book.

hanging from a pullup bar and pullups were a major help, as was a religious building up of my abs and side lateral obliques. glucosamine should be re-labled "wd40 for joints."


I wouldn't discount any of the exercises you mentioned and do them religiously, but I'm 100% sold that the body needs maximum involvement to adapt to low back injury.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
...
he said he believes sarno's view is mind OVER matter, as opposed to mind body CONNECTION

...



That's my take too, or more specifically "body IN mind" seems most accurate.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm



perhaps, but his papers and format cater to clinicians whereas sarno was able to dumb it down to a short book for us unwashed masses. in the end who's helped more sorebacks?


Do you see the contradiction in your post?

cheers


i only see those in other people's posts. shrug


Extrapolation?
Assuming equal quality information (i don't) and reach (not that either) it stands to reason the one teaching clinicians would "help more backs".

Dorko has been teaching clinicians for decades, each one of which is potentially responsible for hundreds if not thousands of "helped backs".

That said, did you even read any of his stuff?

It's quite easy reading and not jargon heavy at all.
I thought the stuff like the Matrix metaphors would be a great match for the unwashed plebes, but what do i know...

shrug cheers
Posted By: rice

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: kurtisp
There was no amount of affective self therapy that would have gotten me from point A to B in such a manner.


No?
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: psykophant
...Sarno's still miles behind this guy though:
http://www.barrettdorko.com/desk.htm



perhaps, but his papers and format cater to clinicians whereas sarno was able to dumb it down to a short book for us unwashed masses. in the end who's helped more sorebacks?


Do you see the contradiction in your post?

cheers


i only see those in other people's posts. shrug


Extrapolation?
Assuming equal quality information (i don't) and reach (not that either) it stands to reason the one teaching clinicians would "help more backs".

Dorko has been teaching clinicians for decades, each one of which is potentially responsible for hundreds if not thousands of "helped backs".

That said, did you even read any of his stuff?

It's quite easy reading and not jargon heavy at all.
I thought the stuff like the Matrix metaphors would be a great match for the unwashed plebes, but what do i know...

shrug cheers


my damned joke missed! should've typed: "i am only capable of seeing contradictions in other people's posts."

your contention is that more people have received treatment from a properly trained and dorko-researched clinician -vs- having read sarno's book. perhaps true but this is the 1st i've heard of dorko (unforgettable name really) yet i've met several people who've also been fixed by sarno (are they aussies named dork and sarn?).

sarno may have some foibles in his schtick vs dorko (you seem far more qualified to judge) but i for one am really stocked he took occams razor and sliced it all down to digestible chunks for those of us who for variou$ reason$ don't have easy access to a clinician.

can you point us towards dorko's writings that specifically pertain to this stuff?
Posted By: GWS

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 05:56 PM

Put me down as another one Sarno's book helped. Dramatically. I passed the book on to a well-known shaper. It cured him. He passed it on to a rather well-known surfer. It worked for him. God knows where the book is now.

And if you want documented structural damage, I got it. And then some.

Look at the ratings on the book. It's way beyond placebo.

I loaned the book to another guy who gave it back to me and said it was hokum. He had surgery. He's been a cripple ever since. Matter of fact, the vast majority of people I know that have had back surgery were worse post surgery. Many dramatically so.

I don't like reading these threads. Too negative.

I got three more boards to cut and then me and my ruined yet pain free back are going to surf for the rest of the day.

wave2

Posted By: Norm'

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:03 PM

I know a paraplegic who read the book. Two weeks later he was the Salsa Dance Champion of Rio de Janeiro. He'd never even danced before his injury.

True story.
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:05 PM

Ok, Dorko does manual therapy.

http://www.barrettdorko.com/shallow.htm

Simple Contact is an increasingly popular manual care technique that emphasizes the reflexive reaction of the body to gentle touch at specific sites. It begins with the premise that the body's own corrective processes are generally sufficient to produce enough mechanical force to reduce pain and normalize function. Since this process is unconsciously motivated, technique must support and encourage the patient's ongoing activity.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:09 PM

Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.
Posted By: GWS

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


And yet you have all these people with nerve damage/nerve impingement with no pain.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


And yet you have all these people with nerve damage/nerve impingement with no pain.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...


Yet . . . .

Give it time.
Posted By: rice

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


foreheadslap
Posted By: Norm'

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:19 PM

Posted By: keenfish

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Norm'
I know a paraplegic who read the book. Two weeks later he was the Salsa Dance Champion of Rio de Janeiro. He'd never even danced before his injury.

True story.


roflmao roflmao laughingpointing
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


And yet you have all these people with nerve damage/nerve impingement with no pain.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...


Yet . . . .

Give it time.


maybe they only think they have no pain, when really, they have a ton of pain, but they just don't feel it
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:31 PM

Actually, you could be onto something there.
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


I agree with this with the exception of ...there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. My brain tells me to send out to the farmacia for some fentanyl.
Posted By: GWS

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: GWS
Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


And yet you have all these people with nerve damage/nerve impingement with no pain.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...


Yet . . . .

Give it time.



roflmao

I believe I got the book in '99.

I'll take that run thank you very much.

When you have lost control of your leg or your bladder, yeah, you need to do something serious.

The book is cheap. It's non-invasive. A pain sufferer has little to lose by trying it.

But, if you would rather wallow in your pain and embrace your limitations, have at it.

wave2
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:50 PM

I read the book and it didn't do anything for me. But I never said don't read the book. Reading is good for you.

I read everything.

I controlled my pain with this book from my early 20s to my late forties before all hell broke lose.

http://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1572243759
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


for what you wrote to be pertinent - you'd have to believe the human spine is a complete fvckup of a design. this what western medicine has taught us, but interestingly i just don't see people in e. asia (for example) with back problems - even after they've sat on concrete making roundeye trinkets all day.

how do you explain the rising # of us on this thread and 5* e-reviewers who "miraculously" went from grimacing ogres to pain-free "READ THE DAMN BOOK" zealots? were we faking it?

due to fusings, degenerations, herniations, slippages, etc... my lower spine functions pretty much as 2 distinct sections with a flexible rubbery joint between them - which gives it some bizarre characteristics. i can now fold in half (can kiss my kneecaps and flathand the floor) and my lower half can pivot in relation to my upper like never before. it looks kind of gnarly to see the point of the 2 sections bulging out when folded, but it never hurts anymore.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 06:55 PM

I Think we agree more than we disagree.....I believe that you can feel pain, (just like we feel hunger when we aren't hungry) from a number of causes that are treatable by the methods of this book. I haven't read it but I take GWS's word for it. I just think if you have a structural problem, with verifiable nerve impingement, you are going to, without a doubt, feel pain. This is how the body works. Once this structural issue is resolved, via reduced swelling, surgical intervention, or regular healing, the methods in this book would certainly apply as it is completely normal to feel phantom residual pain. In some cases, leg weakness, atrophy, bladder control, foot drop, etc, is many times caused by a permanent nerve injury. I feel the body can adapt to this injury and overcome it quite easily with the correct CNS and muscle stimulation which is only achieved physically.
Posted By: ElOgro

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Q_Surf
Originally Posted By: VonMeister
Seems from Sarno's website, he treats pain, not the underlying cause. I understand that, but fail to see how "mind over matter" is going to work when you have three levels of disc herniation which is completely structural. A piece of disc impinging on a nerve will cause pain and there's nothing your brain is going to do about that. The only cure for that is for the material not to be in contact with the nerve.


for what you wrote to be pertinent - you'd have to believe the human spine is a complete fvckup of a design. this what western medicine has taught us, but interestingly i just don't see people in e. asia (for example) with back problems - even after they've sat on concrete making roundeye trinkets all day.

how do you explain the rising # of us on this thread and 5* e-reviewers who "miraculously" went from grimacing ogres to pain-free "READ THE DAMN BOOK" zealots? were we faking it?

due to fusings, degenerations, herniations, slippages, etc... my lower spine functions pretty much as 2 distinct sections with a flexible rubbery joint between them - which gives it some bizarre characteristics. i can now fold in half (can kiss my kneecaps and flathand the floor) and my lower half can pivot in relation to my upper like never before. it looks kind of gnarly to see the point of the 2 sections bulging out when folded, but it never hurts anymore.


I'm not grimacing but I'll read the book. Right after I finish "I'll sleep when I'm dead". Devils advocate and all.
Posted By: sponge

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/02/14 08:14 PM

I've had (probably still have) compressed discs and pinched nerves up and down my spine (not to mention the broken back). I thought I was going to live the rest of my life with neck and back pain. However, once diagnosed, I started some rehab/physical therapy to strengthen muscles, including core. Amazingly, it has backed off significantly (not totally disappeared).

Staying active doesn't mean placing yourself in the position of getting an extreme trauma (skateboarding). Swim or do some yoga. But see a doctor first. That's my recommendation.
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 02:36 AM

Just met with new pt but this one use diferent approach and heard only good thing about her form people with SERIOUS long time pain and got better right away by using mental brain thing as well so ill give it a shot and planning to get back surfing in 2 weeks after a few days of swimming and biking gotta get back into it
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 06:20 AM

Originally Posted By: bergie
Just met with new pt but this one use diferent approach and heard only good thing about her form people with SERIOUS long time pain and got better right away by using mental brain thing as well so ill give it a shot and planning to get back surfing in 2 weeks after a few days of swimming and biking gotta get back into it


No worries. You'll be doing zoomba in no time.
Posted By: waxhead

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 05:33 PM

timely thread for me-my back went out in late January and I haven't surfed since. Mid fifties and have had back problems for 30 years. I had an mri recently and have two ruptured discs. Doc said swim, but don't surf. He said it will likely heal itself, but will take a while. I've been swimming the laps three-four times a week. Missed so many great days of surf the last four months......I'll probably read the book. I was also thinking those inversion chair things that put you upside down might help. Anyone ever try that?
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 05:47 PM

Originally Posted By: waxhead
......I'll probably read the book. I was also thinking those inversion chair things that put you upside down might help. Anyone ever try that?


1 - 'probably' is no way to read the book. you gotta read it positively
2 - hanging upside down's weird, but if you're into drainer and his wife, they might be able to work you over in that chair and make you forget all about the pain in your back
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 05:54 PM

The moral of the story is you could have herniated disks and they are not causing the pain.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Or you could have them and they are causing pain.

Correlation does imply causation.

If it is the first option and you get back surgery you have made a huge mistake.

This seems to be pretty common knowledge now.

A conservative approach seems the best approach.
Posted By: waxhead

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Random Guy
Originally Posted By: waxhead
......I'll probably read the book. I was also thinking those inversion chair things that put you upside down might help. Anyone ever try that?


1 - 'probably' is no way to read the book. you gotta read it positively
2 - hanging upside down's weird, but if you're into drainer and his wife, they might be able to work you over in that chair and make you forget all about the pain in your back
cowabunga
rg
dancing cheers monkey
Posted By: nimby

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 09:04 PM

"interestingly i just don't see people in e. asia (for example) with back problems"

actually an accurate observation that is true. And why?
because from infants they have sat cross legged on the ground instead of on a chair, so they have significantly more flexibility in their hips, which basically unloads the back. It's why they can spend decades bent over working the rice fields and never have back issues.
Trace your heritage. Genetics matter. got north European in your ancestry? due to adaptive body changes because your ancestors spent hundreds of generations on a horse, common issue are non inflexible hips due to the elevated pelvic saddle locking out T4/T5 = more of a load along less discs = back issues.
One of the best things you can do to unload your hips/back are hamstring stretches.
safest hamstring stretch is the doorway stretch- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ9MjdWC2aE
Posted By: Mr C

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/03/14 09:37 PM

Right - I don't post much - mainly lurk - but thought I'd give you the benefit of telling you what worked for me.
A brief history: About 10 years ago I first put my back out doing deadlifts (with poor technique) in the gym. I felt it go, was on my back for about a week, saw an Osteopath it got better, but after that about every 12 - 18 months or so it would "go" (doing a whole range of things from simply bending down to getting off a bike) and I'd be disabled for about a week. I'd see an osteopath - he'd tell me I was sitting down too much, sitting incorrectly, would give me a load of exercises to do - which I'd do for about a week or two, my back would get better and then I'd go back to how I was. I also had read the magical book - but it didn't seem to stop it from happening.
About a year ago however that changed. My back went - I did the usual lying down for a few days and visiting an osteopath. But it didn't fix it. I ended up seeing all sorts of different people, chiropractors, even Bowen therapy (what a crock of poop that is). I bought foam rollers, I bought a gravity table for hanging upside-down (I would have paid any amount of money to be free from the pain) but nothing helped. I started to get really depressed as I simply couldn't do any form of exercise etc. Eventually I noticed my foot wasn't working properly (a condition called foot drop) so I went to my Dr. He ordered me an X-ray and then an MRI scan. Turns out I had a compression fracture in a vertebrae L3 (from the X-ray) and a ruptured/bulging disc L5/S1. About this time I was recommended a really good sports physiotherapist who was also trained in a technique called Rolfing - which is all about body alignment. I was desperate at this point so booked an appointment and went along to see him.
Practically the second I stepped into his office he said "I can pretty much tell what's wrong with you without doing any form of investigation/diagnosis - but we'll do it anyway to be thorough". So he had me strip down, had a look at me moved me about looked at my legs and hips, measured my legs. Then gave me his diagnosis.
He said "you're a lock knee standing desk shagger". Transpires I stand with my knees locked (very bad apparently) with all my weight on one leg (making it appear that I have one leg longer than the other - which I don't) and stand with my hips thrust forward (That's the desk shagging bit). He said it's all to do with the muscles in your hips and buttocks being very tight and locked - and this is what's causing all your problems - the back pain is a symptom of this underlying problem.
So he set to work on easing off my Psoas muscle - which is deep in your hips and runs from your spine to the front of your groin and working on easing all the other muscles in my hips and buttocks. After the first session I was a new man - by that evening my foot was functioning again and by the next day my back pain had pretty much gone. I went to see him two more times - after which he said - buy yourself one of these massagers (A Thumper Mini Pro 2) and use it on yourself everyday (hips and buttocks) or whenever you feel things getting tight and come back if you ever have another problem - which you shouldn't.
I have to say - after about 5 months I've been much more mobile and free from back pain than ever before in my life (since the first event) and that massager is probably the best £180 I've ever spent in my life.
So find yourself someone who understands physiotherapy very well, who understands how to manipulate the Psoas muscle (this part is very important) - they could be a Rolfer but make sure there also a physio too and buy yourself a Thumper Mini Pro 2 - and within a couple of weeks you should be good to go. Good luck and try not to let it get you too depressed.
Posted By: obelix

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/04/14 10:34 PM

Hey Mr C

Thanks for your post, very interesting.

Where in UK you based? I'm in Aberdeen, Scotland, and am looking at a new physio. Back history seems similar to yours. Intermittent episodes for years, did exercises and work on it after each episode until things cleared up, then would stop doing exercises. Then two years ago my back went out while doing squats in gym, and pretty much hasn't gotten better since then. Now I've got nerve symptoms in both legs and one foot, besides the constant pain. Just sold two of my three boards cos I can't get in the water any more. Woe is me pacifier

I'll google the Rolfing technique you mention, but I'm just checking on the off chance you're not up in these parts. I might contact your physio's office and ask him to recommend someone closer to me if you're down south.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/05/14 10:19 PM

Good take on Sarno's book here:

Quote:
Conclusion

In sum, Sarno is correct that the brain and emotional stress play a big role in chronic pain, but his proposed mechanism for how this relationship works appears implausible and inconsistent with what we know about pain science and evolution.

Of course, none of this means that his treatments do not work. That is a separate question! So if Sarnoís methods work for you, that is great, congrats on your progress and keep at it. But donít think that proves that TMS is a real disease, or that Sarnoís methods work by curing it.


http://www.bettermovement.org/2011/a-skeptical-look-at-the-theories-of-dr-john-sarno/
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/05/14 10:42 PM

I'm tripping out on Dorko's "Gentle Touch."

I was trying it out my girl friend yesterday.

She thought I was trying F her.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/05/14 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I'm tripping out on dorko's gentle touch.

I was trying it out my girl friend yesterday.

She thought I was trying F her.


The term "The grooming Lorax" also came to mind reading your posts to Shayla...

shameonyou roflmao


He was just in CA a couple of months ago, did you go to the conference?



I'll be at this one:
http://www.sandiegopainsummit.com/

Quote:
Speakers
KEYNOTE SPEAKER - LORIMER MOSELEY, PhD
BARRETT DORKO, PT
CHRISTOPHER A. MOYER, PhD
CORY BLICKENSTAFF, PT, MS, OCS
DIANE JACOBS, PT
ERIC KRUGER, DPT
JASON SILVERNAIL, DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
JOE BRENCE, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
JOHN WARE, PT, MS, FAAOMPTS
KARA BARNETT, MPT, OCS
NEIL PEARSON, MSc, BScPT, CYT, RYT500
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/05/14 11:03 PM

No, I was watching his videos but now I can't find them.

What is weird is that I was just thinking (in the last few months) that your body has this intelligent communication system that our egos are not fluent in understanding because we are so language dominant in our communication.

Cats don't have written symbolic language getting in the way of the body's communication with the conscious self.

Our body tells us stuff but we are like, "no entiendo."

He seems like he is trying to get you communicating with your body's non-verbal communication. "Tuned in" if you like hippie talk.

I did it the gentle touch and the girl friend rotated left and felt the warming in her arm. That is cool poop because I don't even know what I am doing.

So I'm in.

Shayla?

Do you need a gentle touch?

Maybe you will take better pictures?
Posted By: Mr C

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/07/14 08:06 PM

Hi Obelix,

Sorry for the delayed reply - travelling at the moment in France.
First thing to mention is that once you start getting nerve issues (i.e. not being able to raise your foot etc) you need to get it sorted asap. You can cause permanent damage to the nerves if you don't get it fixed within 6 months. You definitely need to see a Dr (if you haven't already) and if you do have nerve issues they will do an X-ray first (you have to have an x-ray before an MRI with the NHS) and then send you for an MRI.

As for my location - I'm afraid I'm down in the South West in Devon. The chap I went to see is called Richard Pannell and is based in Plymouth - if you google him you'll find his website. If you can't find anyone local that seems to offer what you want maybe you could give him a call and see if he can recommend anyone in your area. Richard himself isn't a qualified Rolfer - but the lady that works there called Jaqueline is and they both treated me (sometimes both at the same time!) What I found was that actually Richard was better at the treatments as I'm fairly muscular and heavy so I think it was easier for someone stronger to manipulate my muscles. He was actually pretty brutal with his manipulation and whilst it hurt at the time, you kind of knew it was doing you good - so (without being sexist) I'd go for a man over a woman for this type of work every time.

Knowing what I know now my advice would be that when you phone (whoever you think might be able to help) for an appointment ask them specifically if they manipulate the Psoas (pronounced "so ass") muscle. If they say no - or if they say it's not possible (which a lot of people think is the case - including most Dr's) then you've not found the right person. You need to find someone that understands and will manipulate the Psoas muscle (just to warn you that involves a lot of poking and pressing in your groin).

Good luck and I hope you can find someone local to you. If not get yourself a train ticket down to Plymouth have a week or so down there and go and see Richard a few times - obviously I can't guarantee you success but he's the only person I've ever met who actually seemed to know what he was on about and the results backed up everything he said. Oh and don't give up and definitely don't even consider surgery until you've seen Richard (the pain can do funny things to your mind).

Cheers,

Mr C
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/07/14 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: nimby
"interestingly i just don't see people in e. asia (for example) with back problems"

actually an accurate observation that is true. And why?
because from infants they have sat cross legged on the ground instead of on a chair, so they have significantly more flexibility in their hips, which basically unloads the back. It's why they can spend decades bent over working the rice fields and never have back issues....


plus they tend to squat a lot

fave stretch is the asian squat. besides hyper-stretching everything from back to hams, they also really help open up hip flexors, supenate the ankle joint, and push the knee range of motion.
Posted By: lbc1980

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/08/14 05:35 AM

check pm.
Posted By: psykophant

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/08/14 05:53 PM

Worth a revisit:

Quote:
MRI Back Scans Do Not Predict if You Need Surgery



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-c-...;comm_ref=false
Posted By: ZanderZ

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/08/14 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: bergie
I have a lower back injury for alomost 4 months now and each time I think I get better I don't.Seing physio chiro nothing worked yet.Any ideas exercice how to get better?I'm getting a carver skatebard to stay in shape but any other way? Getting an mri next week to really see whats going on
Thanks


We spent thousands of dollars on my wifes lower back issues (two herniated disks from getting hit by a cab in NYC in her early 20s) between 2-3K @ chiro, 2k @ accupuncturist, 3k on a f@#%*n mattress, PT, etc. What ended up doing the job was yoga. Everything else sold her on they see this all the time and would fix her right up...it would only take x number of sessions. After x*5 sessions....no worky. Whenever she stops for a period of time, it will eventually come back. Yoga & lots of water to keep the disks hydrated and not cracking.

Good luck with it
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/08/14 11:47 PM

I have sciatic nerve pain, debilitating at times. However, I'm getting better by treating it myself.

Look at the literature and websites. Official word is that most sciatica is caused by disk herneation. The second most common cause, they say, is inflammation of the piriformis muscle. But I wonder if the numbers are wrong, like the now-disproven numbers associating prostate cancer with "high cholesterol". Oncologists were removing the prostates of aging men with enlarged prostates and "high cholesterol", and reporting it as cancer.

I read a major study where researchers did MRI's on healthy people as well as people with back and hip pain. The researchers studied the MRI's for slipped and herniated disks. It turns out that healthy people have just as many slipped and herniated disks as people with back and hip pain. I know a guy with sciatica. His ortho told him he had a herniated disk. The ortho replaced the disk. The guy did not improve. The ortho ran more tests, and told the guy he had a deteriorated hip joint. The ortho replaced his hip joint. But after rehab the guy still has sciatica.

I think America's orthos are replacing healthy disks and hip joints. I think by far the major cause of sciatica is simply piriformis muscle inflammation.




How would you feel if you had a disk or joint removed only to find out that wasn't the problem? The fact that he's an MD doesn't mean diddly when his mortgage is due. Try the less invasive fixes first. If they work then you have your diagnosis. If they don't work, then go see a sawbones. The key lies in doing your own research.
..
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/08/14 11:50 PM

Surgeons aren't removing discs due to inflammation of the piriformis muscle.
Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/09/14 12:03 AM

hey sqidley, have you read the book?
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/09/14 04:53 PM



This is really nice. You could do this for 15 minutes while watching TV.
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/10/14 03:45 PM

Seems to me im like you MR C and many others,the pain is not bad and got pain pretty much when bending lifting and twisting other than that no restrain in motion but each time I got that little pain my legs(especially right one) start to wanna fall asleep a bit then move and feel that cooling sensation of blood flowing back.Im in Canada so medical here is not a "business" than people want to do surgery on you or rush you to mri(even if private clinic) but I almost feel like my doctor doesn't take it seriously so I will look for another one soon its been almost 4 months now with slow to no major improvement but doc keep saying its ok cause I don't get that much pain in legs and weakness(which I just did maybe 2 times in 4 months) not sure an mri will solve my problem either but just starting to see a physio that might be rofling as well ill ask her and told me its my spleen of position stuck to my ribs that restain my left side so my right side been compasating for weeks maybe months and I guss finally gave up so shes really busy so ill see her next week after 2 weeks without seing her and hope she can give me answer and get me better.But I guest not major weakness and strong reflex in legs its a good news? Glad to hearthan people get better at around 6 months so im still hoping at this point I don't care about pain I can live around it but the lack of blood circulation in legs is more scary.Thanks all for all the input it helps a lot.
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/10/14 05:11 PM

The reason you aren;t being "rushed" to an MRI, is because Canada has as many MRI machines as Toledo Ohio. I would still try and get on the list though, it could be a while. MRI's don't solve problems, they help doctors diagnose them.
Posted By: bergie

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/10/14 09:13 PM

no I mean I can go private clinic and pay for it,it will take a few days but im not sure I wanna pay 900$ for someone tell me what im 90% sure of what I have and then been told not so much we can do especially I don't have lots of pain and no weakness in legs ill wait another few weeks and then will pay for it
Posted By: punkrokvixen

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/10/14 10:33 PM

Acupuncture dude!!!! I work with a lot of folks (teaching yoga) who've had disc issues and the common thread when they talk about their approach to treatment is always acupuncture. Check if there's community clinics in your area, they're a lot more affordable. Good luck!
Posted By: Coat Hanger

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 05/11/14 12:12 AM

I always had you pegged for Zumba.
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 12:41 PM

.
I'm treating and curing my sciatica. My problem is piraformis syndrome, but I suspect minor disk herniation as well.

However, regardless of whether a doctor finds a herniated disk, piriformis syndrome, or missing joint cartilage, the cause of sciatica lies in malformation of collagen. Collagen provides the structural alignment for ligament, tendon, muscle, cartilage and even nerves. Collagen is made by fibroblast cells which are embedded in tissue. Collagen cells are long strands, made up of triple helix carbon chains. They break through normal wear. When broken without replenishment they calcify.

1. I was attempting to do PT while my sciatica was acute. You can't do that. Ice is 1/3 of the treatment. I find that frozen peas and carrots work well. Ice what hurts for 10 minutes. Get off of it for 10 minutes. Rinse and repeat until it doesn't hurt.

Ice the problem areas repeatedly. Ice is not simply a pain reliever. It's called cold thermogenesis. Cold waters on earth support far more life than warm waters. That's because cold water absorbs far more oxygen. And it's not just about oxygen. It's about redox potential. The electrons come first. The oxygen follows. Increasing redox potential stimulates cellular metabolism. This regenerates old tissue, and constructs new tissue.

Ice.

2. You physical therapy (PT) guys have 1/3 of it correct. Use a tennis ball for deep soft tissue massage. This is counter-intuitive. Find the place that hurts and really grind on it. Make it hurt more. Do this every time it starts hurting. Massaging breaks up calcified collagen.

3. Ramp up ingestion of fish oil. Physiologically collagen cells are extremely difficult to build and maintain. They are built in water nanotubes using quantum transformations. These quantum transformations require a close electron structure which is only found in the essential lipid DHA. DHA is in very short supply from any land-based food. Adequate supplies can only be found in seafood.

I was only able to break through my sciatica by increasing my consumption of seafood.
..
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 02:18 PM

Posted By: Random Guy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley
.
I'm treating and curing my sciatica. My problem is piraformis syndrome, but I suspect minor disk herniation as well.

However, regardless of whether a doctor finds a herniated disk, piriformis syndrome, or missing joint cartilage, the cause of sciatica lies in malformation of collagen. Collagen provides the structural alignment for ligament, tendon, muscle, cartilage and even nerves. Collagen is made by fibroblast cells which are embedded in tissue. Collagen cells are long strands, made up of triple helix carbon chains. They break through normal wear. When broken without replenishment they calcify.

1. I was attempting to do PT while my sciatica was acute. You can't do that. Ice is 1/3 of the treatment. I find that frozen peas and carrots work well. Ice what hurts for 10 minutes. Get off of it for 10 minutes. Rinse and repeat until it doesn't hurt.

Ice the problem areas repeatedly. Ice is not simply a pain reliever. It's called cold thermogenesis. Cold waters on earth support far more life than warm waters. That's because cold water absorbs far more oxygen. And it's not just about oxygen. It's about redox potential. The electrons come first. The oxygen follows. Increasing redox potential stimulates cellular metabolism. This regenerates old tissue, and constructs new tissue.

Ice.

2. You physical therapy (PT) guys have 1/3 of it correct. Use a tennis ball for deep soft tissue massage. This is counter-intuitive. Find the place that hurts and really grind on it. Make it hurt more. Do this every time it starts hurting. Massaging breaks up calcified collagen.

3. Ramp up ingestion of fish oil. Physiologically collagen cells are extremely difficult to build and maintain. They are built in water nanotubes using quantum transformations. These quantum transformations require a close electron structure which is only found in the essential lipid DHA. DHA is in very short supply from any land-based food. Adequate supplies can only be found in seafood.

I was only able to break through my sciatica by increasing my consumption of seafood.
..


so squidley, how much relief is that giving you?
my wife's got the sciatica
and maybe this periformus thing
PT is helping alot, but if eating more fish will help, then she'd definitely be up for that
cowabunga
rg
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 04:07 PM

.
Piriformis sciatica (PS) is inflammation of both the piriformis muscle and the sciatic nerve together. The piriformis muscles connect the femurs to the front of the pelvis. The PS system works by stretching through the sciatic foramen .....holes in the pelvis. When a piriformis sciatic system is acutely inflamed it enlarges to a size which no longer fits through the sciatic foramen. If you move this system through the foramen anyway, it destroys tissue. Talk about how good inflammation is to the healing process all you want. When inflammation causes destruction of tissue it is debilitating.

Yes, humans have evolved for 2.5 million years. But we did not evolve without chilling our lower extremities. In fact, human evolutionary selection only occurred during periods of cold thermogenesis. Evolution is strange this way. Significant evolutionary changes are only made when harsh environmental factors kill a species down to a bare minimum number of individuals. These individuals have mutations which allow them to survive and adapt to the harsh environmental conditions.

Humans are marine creatures. We stand upright. Our infants can swim. We have downward-facing nostrils. Our females have long hair, and our infants have strong grips. We have huge brains made mostly out of fat, requiring DHA from seafood. We evolved while living in the surf zone. Most human evolution occurred during ice ages while we lived in the surf zone. Human ancestors who adapted to many harsh conditions did so while adapting to cold water.




Sure, inflammation in a dog's hip might help recovery. But human hips are built tighter than dog hips. We only have small sciatic foramen because we evolved in a place which used cold thermogenesis to reduce inflammation. The same principle applies all over the body. If we are to recover from injuries, then we should return to the conditions which we evolved in. For humans, this condition is cold water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_compression_therapy
Dr. Jack Kruse on Cold Thermogenesis

Imagine that .....a couple of Youtube guys being wrong.
..
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 04:15 PM

Quote:
so squidley, how much relief is that giving you?
my wife's got the sciatica
and maybe this periformus thing
PT is helping alot, but if eating more fish will help, then she'd definitely be up for that
cowabunga
rg


cowabunga rg,
In my research an effective physical therapy regime is AIRROSTI. These guys do deep soft tissue massage. But more importantly they teach you how to do the massage on yourself. It has to be done often. Tennis balls are great.

AIRROSTI therapists handed out the colored tape you saw on olympians in the last Olympics.

I've only been eating fish for the last few days. My recovery has accelerated.
..
Posted By: Witchipoo

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 05:28 PM

I have three herniated discs in my neck (don't text and drive, morons! cussing) and another in my lower back. My doctor told me to eat a lot of Turmeric. confused2 shrug

The only thing that seems to really help is massage, but that gets expensive fast. bawling I also do endless amounts of yoga and PT exercises. When I skip them, things get ugly, like I can barely move.

And the next person who gives me a load of crap about riding a longboard is going to get a few herniated discs of their own. fight This poop is seriously impacting my surfing ability, which was already pretty impacted. toilet
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 05:43 PM

rg,

I wasn't aware that your wife has sciatica. That means your wife and I share two maladies, sciatica and increased intra-cranial pressure with headaches (IIH). Even though our causes are different I suspect the combination of these two maladies is more than coincidental. The combination in two individuals adds to my suspicion.

As part of my therapy I've started icing and deep-massaging the back of my neck, especially on the headache side just beneath my skull. This area contains the natural shunt which releases and regulates cerebro-spinal fluid (csf). I do this on the theory that collagen malformation is interrupting csf pressure regulation, and that added csf pressure is affecting lumbar disk diameters.

I keep a 12 oz bottle of water in the freezer. I think it's helping both maladies.
..
Posted By: squidley

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Witchipoo
I have three herniated discs in my neck (don't text and drive, morons! cussing) and another in my lower back. My doctor told me to eat a lot of Turmeric. confused2 shrug

The only thing that seems to really help is massage, but that gets expensive fast. bawling I also do endless amounts of yoga and PT exercises. When I skip them, things get ugly, like I can barely move.

And the next person who gives me a load of crap about riding a longboard is going to get a few herniated discs of their own. fight This poop is seriously impacting my surfing ability, which was already pretty impacted. toilet



Curcumin, the active ingredient in turmeric has been shown to be an effective antioxidant. Curcumin is a polyphenol dye, like other recently-touted antioxidant dyes. Resveritrol from red grapes was foisted off as a miracle cancer treatment until the main researcher got fired for falsifying his research results.

I am prone to autoimmune disease. In other words I'm allergic to a lot of things. I'm allergic to most polyphenol dyes. But I'm not alone. This is no small public health factor. 85% of autistic children have antibodies to lutein and zeaxanthin, two more "healthy" polyphenol dyes.

Sure, for the people who can stand them polyphenol dyes can be a great pick-me-up. However, they are not a targeted treatment for herniated spinal disks, and they make many people very sick. Ingested antioxidants are intended to try and make up for cellular metabolic shortcomings. You would be better off addressing and fixing these shortcomings.

Your doctor is a quack. Be careful.
..
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 06:07 PM

you are a fascinating source of information squidly. cheers

we dose heavily on fish
Posted By: Witchipoo

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: squidley


Your doctor is a quack. Be careful.
..


Yeah, well, he's the doctor that the lawyers sent me to after the accident. I'm taking everything with a huge grain of salt. Mostly I'm agitating for free massages, because I can't really afford them on my own and they're the only thing I trust not to mess me up more. I mean, this guy is talking about surgery. I am definitely not down with that until all other options have been exhausted. Probably not even then.

And am I the only one who distrusts any doctor whose office is full of promo items for cosmetic stuff? Beverly Hills is full of that kind of douchebaggery. I stopped going to my dermatologist when she started looking like the lady from "Brazil" and started trying to sell me overpriced face goop. foreheadslap
Posted By: punkrokvixen

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 07:16 PM

Have you tried acupuncture? My ex had a herniated disc in his low back and he avoided surgery doing regular acupuncture and qi gong. You can search for community acupuncture places that are a lot cheaper than most places (they offer a sliding scale so you pay what you can) and some of them have massage offered on the same pay system. Good luck! Stay positive!
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Witchipoo
Mostly I'm agitating for free massages,


I do free massages.
Posted By: GWS

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 07:54 PM

.
Posted By: SmackDaddy

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: punkrokvixen
Have you tried acupuncture? My ex had a herniated disc in his low back and he avoided surgery doing regular acupuncture and qi gong. You can search for community acupuncture places that are a lot cheaper than most places (they offer a sliding scale so you pay what you can) and some of them have massage offered on the same pay system. Good luck! Stay positive!


One would think that given how long acupuncture has been around that it wouldn't be hard for scientists to figure out the mechanisms by which it works. Let's face it, physiologically, there's isn't much about the human body that isn't known. However, based on my limited research, it appears that no one has ever found acupuncture to actually work physiologically. There does, however, appear to be a strong placebo effect. Basically, people that believe it works find that it does. Fits in with Sarno et al.
Posted By: Q_Surf

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: SmackDaddy
Originally Posted By: punkrokvixen
Have you tried acupuncture? My ex had a herniated disc in his low back and he avoided surgery doing regular acupuncture and qi gong. You can search for community acupuncture places that are a lot cheaper than most places (they offer a sliding scale so you pay what you can) and some of them have massage offered on the same pay system. Good luck! Stay positive!


One would think that given how long acupuncture has been around that it wouldn't be hard for scientists to figure out the mechanisms by which it works. Let's face it, physiologically, there's isn't much about the human body that isn't known. However, based on my limited research, it appears that no one has ever found acupuncture to actually work physiologically. There does, however, appear to be a strong placebo effect. Basically, people that believe it works find that it does. Fits in with Sarno et al.


wrong. bloodflow, nerves, & muscle tension are physiologically manipulated.
Posted By: punkrokvixen

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: SmackDaddy
Originally Posted By: punkrokvixen
Have you tried acupuncture? My ex had a herniated disc in his low back and he avoided surgery doing regular acupuncture and qi gong. You can search for community acupuncture places that are a lot cheaper than most places (they offer a sliding scale so you pay what you can) and some of them have massage offered on the same pay system. Good luck! Stay positive!


One would think that given how long acupuncture has been around that it wouldn't be hard for scientists to figure out the mechanisms by which it works. Let's face it, physiologically, there's isn't much about the human body that isn't known. However, based on my limited research, it appears that no one has ever found acupuncture to actually work physiologically. There does, however, appear to be a strong placebo effect. Basically, people that believe it works find that it does. Fits in with Sarno et al.


Not true. They do acupuncture on animals that can't comprehend the treatment and it has marked results. I worked for an acupuncturist for a long time and have seen for myself things working. They're just manipulating the body's energy and moving stagnant blood and energy.
Posted By: hilldo

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 11:43 PM

Originally Posted By: punkrokvixen
Have you tried acupuncture? My ex had a herniated disc in his low back and he avoided surgery doing regular acupuncture and qi gong. You can search for community acupuncture places that are a lot cheaper than most places (they offer a sliding scale so you pay what you can) and some of them have massage offered on the same pay system. Good luck! Stay positive!


I would like to have a one stop shop that also offers a chiro adjustment before and a happy ending after.
Posted By: Mr Doof

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 11:51 PM

A joke/crack I heard about the usefulness of acupuncture went along the lines of:

The acupuncture is keep you still in a certain position for a certain after they give you the massage/acupressure/realignment/herbal wraps/blah blah blah so the body can get over the hump and start healing itself.

To me, a just having needles stuck in a you at certain points is not acupuncture...well, maybe the really cheap kind. It is more of a "whole bag of things that includes needles stuck in you at certain points".
Posted By: Autoprax

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/17/14 11:56 PM

it's a trip. When they hit the right spot you can feel it.

And then when you are lying on the table, you go deep into a trance.

I like it but it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

And you need to get the treatment regularly to effect change.

I had a good guy from the China who was in his 90s but he died.

(Don't you hate it when that happens?)

No one has matched that guy.

I'll stick needles in myself just for fun.
Posted By: punkrokvixen

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/18/14 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Autoprax


I like it but it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

And you need to get the treatment regularly to effect change.



Do a search for "community" acupuncture clinics in your area. Super cheap treatments. That's what I do and I go at least once a week.
Posted By: Witchipoo

Re: herniated disc tips to get back faster in the water - 06/18/14 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: punkrokvixen
Originally Posted By: Autoprax


I like it but it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

And you need to get the treatment regularly to effect change.



Do a search for "community" acupuncture clinics in your area. Super cheap treatments. That's what I do and I go at least once a week.




I was going to one for a while, for a herniated disc in my lower back (I've got them all over now cussing ) and was having mixed results, but then one day something happened and I started getting this incredibly creepy sensation in my arm, like when you rub a limb that's fallen asleep, only this felt like something was going seriously wrong. I couldn't get the acupuncturist's attention because she was with another client, so I was kind of stuck there, wondering if my arm was going to fall off or what. That kind of freaked me out, so I never went back.

I'm a fraidy-cat when it comes to medical stuff. socrazy
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