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#2607049 - 02/17/17 11:22 AM Re: The Media [Re: GDaddy]
GromsDad Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 8918
Loc: 600 yards from the surf.
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Trump could get impeached tomorrow and it wouldn't help the establishment media's credibility problem that much.

I think it's interesting that even the media now has to fear exposure of their unethical conduct by the media. To the extent that external control keeps them (more) honest I think that's great.

Checks and balances.




Truth right there. For the last 8 years the media gave a president and administration a complete pass. Then when the election came they chose sides clearly against the eventual winner. After the election the press continued their attacks on the newly elected president with slanted and often false coverage. He's calling them out on it and he is being very effective at it. Very fun to watch.
_________________________
"The Purpose Of Global Warming Is To Put Handcuffs On American Liberty And Prosperity." Joe Bastardi

"There are two potential violators of mans rights: the criminals and the government. The great achievement of the United States was to draw a distinction between these two by forbidding to the second the legalized version of the activities of the first." Rand

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#2607056 - 02/17/17 11:33 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
rossmoor Offline
Nep status
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 939
Loc: Oahu
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Trump could get impeached tomorrow and it wouldn't help the establishment media's credibility problem that much.

I think it's interesting that even the media now has to fear exposure of their unethical conduct by the media. To the extent that external control keeps them (more) honest I think that's great.

Checks and balances.




Truth right there. For the last 8 years the media gave a president and administration a complete pass. Then when the election came they chose sides clearly against the eventual winner. After the election the press continued their attacks on the newly elected president with slanted and often false coverage. He's calling them out on it and he is being very effective at it. Very fun to watch.


Okay what about the conservative media outlets? Which side are they on?

I love how you only bash the media as if every single media entity is going against Trump and there aren't any on his side with their own biases.

You probably didn't say jack when Fox News went hard on Obama for 8 years.





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#2607059 - 02/17/17 11:39 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
GromsDad Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 8918
Loc: 600 yards from the surf.
What conservative media outlets? Fox? So 1 out of what 100 networks on TV played it strait the last 8 years?
_________________________
"The Purpose Of Global Warming Is To Put Handcuffs On American Liberty And Prosperity." Joe Bastardi

"There are two potential violators of mans rights: the criminals and the government. The great achievement of the United States was to draw a distinction between these two by forbidding to the second the legalized version of the activities of the first." Rand

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#2607061 - 02/17/17 11:45 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
rossmoor Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
What conservative media outlets? Fox? So 1 out of what 100 networks on TV played it strait the last 8 years?


There are multiple conservative media outlets. You know that right?

Look at how large Fox News is in terms of viewership. They dwarf competitors.

http://deadline.com/2016/12/cable-rankings-network-ratings-fox-cnn-msnbc-1201873996/

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#2607062 - 02/17/17 11:46 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
frvcvs Offline
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Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 35744
Do you mean the same media that gave some rich orange-faced asshole a platform to spew his racist birther conspiracy theories for 8yrs launching his political career and went on to give him endless free coverage as he ascended to the Presidency?

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#2607064 - 02/17/17 11:53 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
manbearpig Offline
Phil Edwards status
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Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 7225
Loc: its so flat
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Trump could get impeached tomorrow and it wouldn't help the establishment media's credibility problem that much.

I think it's interesting that even the media now has to fear exposure of their unethical conduct by the media. To the extent that external control keeps them (more) honest I think that's great.

Checks and balances.




Truth right there. For the last 8 years the media gave a president and administration a complete pass. Then when the election came they chose sides clearly against the eventual winner. After the election the press continued their attacks on the newly elected president with slanted and often false coverage. He's calling them out on it and he is being very effective at it. Very fun to watch.

You don't see why the media would be all over trump more so than your cookie cutter politician? Lift those blinders, his narrative of upsetting the establishment and "draining" (read "filling") the swamp is something that the media anywhere is going to be all over. The guys got all in with all eyes on him as it should be. He's getting a lot of scrutiny because:

A. He's obviously not a politician and isn't fitting into the role very gracefully

B. His policies have overall been a mess not even a month in
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#2607065 - 02/17/17 11:58 AM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
GDaddy Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 18147
Loc: Carlsbad
In my day job the primary product we sell is our professional reputations for honesty, impartiality and objectivity. Our technical competency - although important - is subordinate to our credibility. While definitely not good, being incompetent is fixable whereas getting caught being dishonest is unfixable.

In some ways, similar to the ethics that journalists assert. Same as referees, accountants, judges - any occupation where impartiality is part of the primary job description.

Just as is the case for journalists, once any of us gets caught at being dishonest or unethical it doesn't matter how technically competent we may be or how "right" our analyses and conclusions might be. Because you can't trust a liar. In this way, professional credibility is easy to lose and once lost is almost impossible to regain. Moreover, when an individual gets caught it casts aspersions on all their peers, so in that respect our own donkeys are the biggests threats we have to our common interests. They're the ones who hurt us the most, by diminishing the public's perception of our credibility,.

Outside their bubbles, nobody trusts Alex Jones or Kieth Olbermann to be impartial or objective, which is why few people attribute any credibility to whatever they may come up with - even if it later turns out they were right on that particular story. What they sell is overt advocacy - which while very marketable - isn't what journalists sell.

In contrast to our expectations for journalists, the expectations we have for politicians don't include impartiality and objectivity. We expect them to act like used car salesmen, to be the advocate for whatever deal they're pimping and to go long on lofty promises and short on IRL details.


That's what puts the media at the disadvantage when they're doing open warfare with Trump - in violation of their own assertions of impartiality. These are two different types of parties that are judged based on different expectations and with different benchmarks for performance. Trump's biggest problem isn't the opposition media, it's himself and his own dumb decisions. Likewise, the media's biggest problem isn't Trump, either. It's their own reputations in the public eye, which they burned down by their own hand.

The road back for these news journalists will be long and painful for those of them who are not prepared to cut back on their overt partisanship. They need to refine their poker face and go back to the basics of reporting the good, the bad and the ugly without regard for who their subjects are. They need to emotionally divorce themselves from the decisions that get made and refrain from attempting to actively participating in those decisions.

The people who can't do that need to stick to the entertainment side of what passes for reporting these days because if they don't they are stabbing their peers who are trying to do the do right in the back.

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#2607081 - 02/17/17 12:11 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
Autoprax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 18011
Loc: Vagina Point
You can simple present facts to reveal that trump is insane.

No need to spin.
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#2607084 - 02/17/17 12:13 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
GDaddy Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
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Loc: Carlsbad
The truth sells itself. It's trying to make an untruth look credible that takes all the extra effort.

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#2607086 - 02/17/17 12:14 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
Autoprax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 18011
Loc: Vagina Point
You have to a broken record stating facts.

That is an effective tactic.
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#2607111 - 02/17/17 12:46 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
StuAzole Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 5299
Parts of Trump bashing the media yesterday I enjoyed the most:

Re the Congressional Black Caucus:

Am I going to include who? he asked.

Are you going to include the Congressional Black Caucus, Ryan, who is black, asked, and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus as well as ?

Well, I would, Trump interrupted. Tell you what, do you want to set up the meeting? Do you want to set up the meeting? Are they friends of yours? Set up a meeting.


And re recent bomb threats at JCC's across the country - said to an obviously-jewish reporter:

Number one, I am the least anti-Semitic person that youve ever seen in your entire life, Trump responded, after calling the query not a fair question. Number two, he continued, the least racist person.

When Turx tried to clarify the response he sought which explicitly wasnt about Trump being anti-Semitic Trump shot him down. Quiet, quiet, quiet! Trump told Turx, who was wearing a yarmulke. He summarized his lack of anti-Semitism by pointing to the embrace of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel on Wednesday. You should take that, Trump said to Turx, instead of asking a very insulting question.

The man's a master.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/poli...m=.3068cea18e94
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#2607118 - 02/17/17 12:50 PM Re: The Media [Re: GDaddy]
StuAzole Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 5299
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
In my day job the primary product we sell is our professional reputations for honesty, impartiality and objectivity. Our technical competency - although important - is subordinate to our credibility. While definitely not good, being incompetent is fixable whereas getting caught being dishonest is unfixable.

In some ways, similar to the ethics that journalists assert. Same as referees, accountants, judges - any occupation where impartiality is part of the primary job description.

Just as is the case for journalists, once any of us gets caught at being dishonest or unethical it doesn't matter how technically competent we may be or how "right" our analyses and conclusions might be. Because you can't trust a liar. In this way, professional credibility is easy to lose and once lost is almost impossible to regain. Moreover, when an individual gets caught it casts aspersions on all their peers, so in that respect our own donkeys are the biggests threats we have to our common interests. They're the ones who hurt us the most, by diminishing the public's perception of our credibility,.

Outside their bubbles, nobody trusts Alex Jones or Kieth Olbermann to be impartial or objective, which is why few people attribute any credibility to whatever they may come up with - even if it later turns out they were right on that particular story. What they sell is overt advocacy - which while very marketable - isn't what journalists sell.

In contrast to our expectations for journalists, the expectations we have for politicians don't include impartiality and objectivity. We expect them to act like used car salesmen, to be the advocate for whatever deal they're pimping and to go long on lofty promises and short on IRL details.


That's what puts the media at the disadvantage when they're doing open warfare with Trump - in violation of their own assertions of impartiality. These are two different types of parties that are judged based on different expectations and with different benchmarks for performance. Trump's biggest problem isn't the opposition media, it's himself and his own dumb decisions. Likewise, the media's biggest problem isn't Trump, either. It's their own reputations in the public eye, which they burned down by their own hand.

The road back for these news journalists will be long and painful for those of them who are not prepared to cut back on their overt partisanship. They need to refine their poker face and go back to the basics of reporting the good, the bad and the ugly without regard for who their subjects are. They need to emotionally divorce themselves from the decisions that get made and refrain from attempting to actively participating in those decisions.

The people who can't do that need to stick to the entertainment side of what passes for reporting these days because if they don't they are stabbing their peers who are trying to do the do right in the back.




That's all well and good, but it presupposes that the media, in fact, is "doing open warfare" with Trump. There are obviously biased folks out there on both sides, but I've seen nothing from the vast majority of reporters that's akin to open warfare. They're asking the questions they should ask. They're discussing the issues they should discuss. There's literally nothing wrong with reporters asking about the leaks and then following up with hard questions when Trump says the leaks are a crime but they're fake but he fired Flynn because of the leaks because he wasn't honest with him but the story is still fake news.
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#2607127 - 02/17/17 12:57 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 18147
Loc: Carlsbad
The point is, their credibility and the marketability of what they are doing is still a problem of their own creation. That creation occurring by their own hand over many years. All Trump did was point out that the emperor had then blow them off when they tried to deny it.

Trump may end up being the political media's Watergate. Regardless of what should happen to him or what actually will happen to him, things will never be the same for them again.

As for Trump, his biggest problem is himself, not his opposition. At whatever point people care enough about his untruths and his hair trigger reactions to support his opposition he'll be hamstrung to do anything if not impeached for cause. So he gets what he gets.


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#2607137 - 02/17/17 01:08 PM Re: The Media [Re: GDaddy]
bird. Offline
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Registered: 07/14/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: LA
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The point is, their credibility and the marketability of what they are doing is still a problem of their own creation. That creation occurring by their own hand over many years. All Trump did was point out that the emperor had then blow them off when they tried to deny it.



Is this mainly a criticism of TV media or do you include print journalism?

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#2607144 - 02/17/17 01:18 PM Re: The Media [Re: GromsDad]
test_article Offline
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Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 5651
Loc: Body of Christ, Texas
If you would lead, never let the media see your weakness. They're pretty accomplished at sniffing them out.
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~James Taylor

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