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#2601379 - 02/04/17 01:16 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
GDaddy Offline
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Capital reserves basically means providing more recourse in the event they get caught passing bad loans on to their investors. More skin in the game.

People forget these numbers represent real dollars; there's nothing abstract or hypothetical about them. A lot of the losses from these pension funds that are adversely affecting the retirees are attributable to bad decision making at the lenders that was concealed from the investor groups by deceit. IRL nobody gives a sht about the 1%, but many of these losses were borne by individuals who couldn't afford to lose those investments - they're the real victims.

When the Executive Branch guts and defunds these regulatory agencies that's exactly like a high crime town like Chicago taking cops off the street - the crooks will step in to fill the void. And with the financial crimes the bottom line will appear to improve for a while until the charade collapses. These lenders will continue to look good right up until the day they fail.

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#2601382 - 02/04/17 01:34 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
the janitor Offline
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I'm thinking there are other, more profit oriented cough<share repurchases >cough reasons why the banks aren't lending, agree with the rest though

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#2601383 - 02/04/17 01:36 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
Autoprax Offline
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Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Capital reserves basically means providing more recourse in the event they get caught passing bad loans on to their investors. More skin in the game.

People forget these numbers represent real dollars; there's nothing abstract or hypothetical about them. A lot of the losses from these pension funds that are adversely affecting the retirees are attributable to bad decision making at the lenders that was concealed from the investor groups by deceit. IRL nobody gives a sht about the 1%, but many of these losses were borne by individuals who couldn't afford to lose those investments - they're the real victims.

When the Executive Branch guts and defunds these regulatory agencies that's exactly like a high crime town like Chicago taking cops off the street - the crooks will step in to fill the void. And with the financial crimes the bottom line will appear to improve for a while until the charade collapses. These lenders will continue to look good right up until the day they fail.


Fox is guarding the hen house
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#2601387 - 02/04/17 02:23 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
GDaddy Offline
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Originally Posted By: the janitor
I'm thinking there are other, more profit oriented cough<share repurchases >cough reasons why the banks aren't lending, agree with the rest though


If it wasn't for Quantitative Easing those banks wouldn't have the cash to be coasting with - they'd have to actually get out and do business instead of competing with investors using that cash for passive investment income.

What happens to the stock market if/when these banks withdraw their participation? remember, all the action (aka "growth") is at the margins. It is the surplus demand that has been driving prices up, part of that demand coming from the banks' use of other people's money. Money they did not earn.

I'll tell you what won't happen; when the QE money gets pulled out of an overvalued stock market it will be the little guy who gets burned; not the banks. The conundrum of excess demand is that when they decide to exit the market they will be switching roles from providing excess demand to providing excess supply, which will exacerbate the slide.


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#2601417 - 02/04/17 08:23 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
BillyOcean Offline
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It's senseless to impose a gigantic regulatory cost on a massive industry that has ripple effects throughout the entire economy because you're mad at a few very rich dudes (who, by the way, are even within that industry just a tiny slice of the overall workforce)

Also, don't you think obamas crew did everything in their power, to the very edge of what was legal and ethical, to try to nail those dudes? Did you ever consider that there was simply no case?

The fact is that there have been massive financial bubbles ever since there have been markets

Dodd frank does not solve this problem

It also does not solve too big to fail

Does anyone think the govt would not ride to the rescue if another Lehman was happening now?

They tried to make an example out of Lehman and it is generally understood that that was a huge mistake

This is a global issue too. Deutsche bank nearly went down a few months ago, which would have had massive cascading effects around the world. How did Dodd frank help there? It wouldn't have done shit. And you know the German govt stepped in behind the scenes

What is truly f-d up on a policy level is the implicit backstop has never gone away. But removing it is NOT realistic. And putting in place a bunch of stupid costly regs in place of removing that backstop makes ZERO economic sense


Edited by BillyOcean (02/04/17 08:27 AM)

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#2601418 - 02/04/17 08:28 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: BillyOcean]
ifallalot Online   sick
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Regulations are absolutely needed in the financial markets, in fact, we need much stronger regulations to cripple the financial industry so they cannot cripple us again.

Remove the backstop and hamstring the system.
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#2601419 - 02/04/17 08:33 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: ifallalot]
BillyOcean Offline
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Regulations are absolutely needed in the financial markets, in fact, we need much stronger regulations to cripple the financial industry so they cannot cripple us again.

Remove the backstop and hamstring the system.


This makes sense on a theoretical level, sort of like how libertarianism sounds great in theory

But in real life you cannot cripple the financial industry

This is like saying, I think plumbers charge too much, so let's cripple the nations plumbing

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#2601422 - 02/04/17 08:40 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: BillyOcean]
ifallalot Online   sick
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Do you want freedom or do you want to be beholden to banks?

Teddy Roosevelt took the teeth out of Wall Street and we survived just fine, in fact, we prospered. The current behemoth is a new thing that is operating on low interest rates while charging consumers 30% interest rates. It runs off of theoretical dollars and a fake bubble propped up by government backing.

The first step do fix everything would be to forgive all consumer debt. This would put all the debt slavery maintenance products back into the hands of the people who need to spend to keep the economy moving. The world would operate on cash instead of credit. Producers and suppliers would then get the money directly from the consumer, rather than going through the financial middleman.

And your plumbing analogy is false, because unlike banks, plumbers are actually needed and are not holding a middleman position that price fixes the cost of their service
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#2601424 - 02/04/17 08:55 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
BillyOcean Offline
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Registered: 01/06/17
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It's the same thing as plumbing

If you collapse the credit market, society would cease to function

Every single thing in our economy runs on credit. Food, everything.

We would be in mad max territory within 2 weeks if wall st ceased to function

That is why the govt took such drastic measures in 2008/9. There was no other realistic choice

Now on the bigger policy point, I agree with you. It's not cool to be held hostage.

So how do you solve that? There's no easy answer.

You could make wall st into a public utility. But would making the banks an explicit arm of the govt really solve the issue? Or would it make them even MORE dysfunctional and unaccountable to the public?

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#2601425 - 02/04/17 08:58 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
BillyOcean Offline
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I also agree that more direct stimulus to average people is a good idea

Forgiving student loan debt would give the economy a big boost, for example

I think trump gets that there needs to be a greater stimulus at the bottom

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#2601436 - 02/04/17 09:54 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: BillyOcean]
ifallalot Online   sick
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The problem is that the entire economy functions on credit. Blow that up, move back to where we're supposed to be.

And we would not be in Mad Max territory if it collapsed; it collapsed in 1929 and it got ugly but not dystopian.

The government should have let it fail in 2008. We would have been fine.
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#2601437 - 02/04/17 09:56 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: BillyOcean]
ifallalot Online   sick
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Registered: 12/17/08
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Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
I also agree that more direct stimulus to average people is a good idea

Forgiving student loan debt would give the economy a big boost, for example

I think trump gets that there needs to be a greater stimulus at the bottom

Agree totally here, and I admit I'm still thinking in a more theoretic function while you're being more pragmatic.

I don't think making banking a public utility is the key either; rather forced breakup into smaller pieces and forcing competition is the key.
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#2601446 - 02/04/17 10:29 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: BillyOcean]
VonMeister Online   mad
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Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 7438
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
These laws are total clusterf-cks

Revisiting them is very smart

We have a globally dominant financial services industry, which for some reason the Dems are intent on destroying just like every other thing they touch

Our banks have been getting totally hammered with pointless and contradictory regs for years now

And still too big to fail is an issue

If you want to solve too big to fail, solve it, but don't create some pointless hornets nest of regs and pretend you're actually doing something productive

Funny thing is that our competitor nations actually actively SUPPORT their banks instead of trying to kneecap them


Lobbyists spend a lot of time and money with and on democrats to come up with complicated and contradictory regulations that only benefit the wealthy and their corporate owners.
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When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look at him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows shes dating a pussy. -General James Mattis

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#2601447 - 02/04/17 10:31 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: ifallalot]
VonMeister Online   mad
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Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 7438
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
I also agree that more direct stimulus to average people is a good idea

Forgiving student loan debt would give the economy a big boost, for example

I think trump gets that there needs to be a greater stimulus at the bottom

Agree totally here, and I admit I'm still thinking in a more theoretic function while you're being more pragmatic.

I don't think making banking a public utility is the key either; rather forced breakup into smaller pieces and forcing competition is the key.


Ending the federal student loan program is the answer. Another democrat scheme designed to enrich their buddies on the back of hapless students.
_________________________
At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. -P. J. O'Rourke

When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look at him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows shes dating a pussy. -General James Mattis

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#2601460 - 02/04/17 11:07 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: ifallalot]
Random Guy Offline
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Posts: 25658
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
...
The first step do fix everything would be to forgive all consumer debt. This would put all the debt slavery maintenance products back into the hands of the people who need to spend to keep the economy moving....


interesting idea
especially to be since i just started watching Mr Robot this week.
ifallalot, if you haven't, you should check it out
oh, it's set in ny city, so i know you'll love it just for that
cowabunga
rg

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