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#2601302 - 02/03/17 08:34 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
BillyOcean Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 1874
These laws are total clusterf-cks

Revisiting them is very smart

We have a globally dominant financial services industry, which for some reason the Dems are intent on destroying just like every other thing they touch

Our banks have been getting totally hammered with pointless and contradictory regs for years now

And still too big to fail is an issue

If you want to solve too big to fail, solve it, but don't create some pointless hornets nest of regs and pretend you're actually doing something productive

Funny thing is that our competitor nations actually actively SUPPORT their banks instead of trying to kneecap them


Edited by BillyOcean (02/03/17 08:48 PM)

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#2601303 - 02/03/17 08:35 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
squidley Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 3315
.
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
as long as the government remains the underwriter of last resort via bailouts and unethically allowing the use of extend-n-pretend accounting the regulation of these entities will still be part of the public interest.


One of the things I resent worst is how Obama kept seeding taxpayer investment cash to things like the mortgage market. .....Here have some free taxpayer money. They don't need it.

Every free tax dollar which went into private investment displaced a private investment dollar which could have earned its owner a profit. All of those would-be investment dollars had to compete with other investment dollars in other markets, and suppressed profits in those markets. Obama's move was merely a backhand slap at anyone who wanted to save or invest.

Don't believe me? Banks are offering around 1% on savings accounts. Charitable Institutions which used to survive on investment profits from their endowments have been advertising for more money. Driving charity hospitals out of business was goal #1 for Obama.

Trump needs to stop the practice .....slowly.
..

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#2601304 - 02/03/17 08:36 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: obslop]
BillyOcean Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 1874
Originally Posted By: obslop
if wall street likes it, joe and jane average are going to get f-ed.

a more bigly bubble shall come to pass.


No.

This is bullshit

Wall st and Main Street are aligned

Wall st provides the fuel that makes the economy go

Trump is smart to signal to wall st it is time to turn on the tap

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#2601308 - 02/03/17 08:40 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
BillyOcean Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 1874
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Dodd-Frank was a result of the excesses it was aimed at curtailing from occurring again. Some of the deals Trump is saying can't get done are marginal deals that probably *shouldn't* get done.

When it's the State's checkbook that is ultimately on the line the State has an obligation to protect its interests.



Dodd frank is a f-ing nightmare that nobody knows how to comply with

Even the people who wrote the law have no f-ing clue what it means

It was a total political exercise meant to show the public that the Dems were sticking it to the banks

It did not achieve anything productive and net net was a massive f-ing drain on our economy

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#2601309 - 02/03/17 08:43 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
CharmingSophisticate Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 03/07/09
Posts: 17875
Loc: In Gods Country
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Predictable
Big mistake
Why? (be gentle, I haven't studied this one yet).

My overall take is that "big money"/Wall Street loves regulation, they can afford to pay for it while the up and coming potential competition can't and the upstarts have no political connections to go to for help leaving the establishment assholes......established.

Think Amazon v. Barns and Noble et al.
_________________________
"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey

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#2601311 - 02/03/17 08:53 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: CharmingSophisticate]
obslop Offline
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 4876
Loc: san diego, CA
Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Predictable
Big mistake
Why? (be gentle, I haven't studied this one yet).

My overall take is that "big money"/Wall Street loves regulation, they can afford to pay for it while the up and coming potential competition can't and the upstarts have no political connections to go to for help leaving the establishment assholes......established.

Think Amazon v. Barns and Noble et al.


wall street loves to securitize debt and sell it. auto loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

multiple trillions of dollars in debt and yet someone else's pain in the butt monthly payment is magically transformed into a valuable asset that individual investors, pension plans, mutual funds, sovereign funds, etc. pay for.

the securitized debt is rated through a bribery process in which the ratings agency deems risky assets to be financially sound investments.

complicated derivatives instruments are then created to hedge against the risk - completely underestimated of course - inherent in the securitized debt. wall street makes money from selling the derivatives.

the best part though is that once the house of cards starts to fall part the same people that sold the securitized debt and derivatives then take a short position on those assets and bet against the people that used to be their customers (now financial adversaries).

wall street does all of this because they know they can go broke and leave the bill with the tax payers of the United States of America. we are really that stupid.



Edited by obslop (02/03/17 08:56 PM)

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#2601312 - 02/03/17 08:54 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
BillyOcean Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 1874
Regs in general add additional overhead which bigger operators can more easily absorb

However, Dodd frank was uniquely aimed at large financial institutions

It was like Obamacare in the sense that it was a half measure

Just like how the people behind Obamacare REALLY wanted single payor healthcare, the people behind Dodd frank really wanted to totally break up the major banks

But, just like how Obamacare made an untenable compromise because what they really wanted could not be done politically, the same thing happened with Dodd frank

The result in both cases was to make the problem they were trying to address WORSE than before they started, imposing massive pointless costs with zero movement on the underlying issue

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#2601315 - 02/03/17 08:57 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: obslop]
BillyOcean Offline
Michael Peterson status
**

Registered: 01/06/17
Posts: 1874
Originally Posted By: obslop
Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Predictable
Big mistake
Why? (be gentle, I haven't studied this one yet).

My overall take is that "big money"/Wall Street loves regulation, they can afford to pay for it while the up and coming potential competition can't and the upstarts have no political connections to go to for help leaving the establishment assholes......established.

Think Amazon v. Barns and Noble et al.


wall street loves to securitize debt and sell it. auto loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

multiple trillions of dollars in debt and yet someone else's pain in the butt monthly payment is magically transformed into a valuable asset that individual investors, pension plans, mutual funds, sovereign funds, etc. pay for.

the securitized debt is rated through a bribery process in which the ratings agency deems risky assets to be financially sound investments.

complicated derivatives instrument are then created to hedge against the risk - completely underestimated of course - inherent in the securitized debt. wall street makes money from selling the derivatives.

the best part though is that once the house of cards start to fall part the same people that sold the securitized debt and derivatives then take a short position on those assets and bet against the people that used to be their customers (now financial adversaries).

wall street does all of this because they know they can go broke and leave the bill with the tax payers of the United States of America. we are really that stupid.



Yeah, that sucked, but there have been many bubbles throughout history

This will continue to happen because people are hysterical

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#2601340 - 02/03/17 09:49 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: obslop]
CharmingSophisticate Offline
Duke status
**

Registered: 03/07/09
Posts: 17875
Loc: In Gods Country
Originally Posted By: obslop
Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Predictable
Big mistake
Why? (be gentle, I haven't studied this one yet).

My overall take is that "big money"/Wall Street loves regulation, they can afford to pay for it while the up and coming potential competition can't and the upstarts have no political connections to go to for help leaving the establishment assholes......established.

Think Amazon v. Barns and Noble et al.


wall street loves to securitize debt and sell it. auto loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

multiple trillions of dollars in debt and yet someone else's pain in the butt monthly payment is magically transformed into a valuable asset that individual investors, pension plans, mutual funds, sovereign funds, etc. pay for.

the securitized debt is rated through a bribery process in which the ratings agency deems risky assets to be financially sound investments.

complicated derivatives instruments are then created to hedge against the risk - completely underestimated of course - inherent in the securitized debt. wall street makes money from selling the derivatives.

the best part though is that once the house of cards starts to fall part the same people that sold the securitized debt and derivatives then take a short position on those assets and bet against the people that used to be their customers (now financial adversaries).

wall street does all of this because they know they can go broke and leave the bill with the tax payers of the United States of America. we are really that stupid.

Seems to me like your making the case to minimize regulation.
If we've put ourselves the position of backstopping Too Big To Fail Financial, that ain't their fault, they're adapting/overcoming in order to keep the money coming in.

There are plenty of high earning people at Goldman Sachs that aren't swine, they have chosen their field, built their lives around it and I seriously doubt that they're sitting around the dinner table yukking it up about how they're swindling the American taxpayer- you could make a way better case that Teachers (and other govt employee unions) Unions are the swindlers of taxpayers.

The best saying I've heard on this sort of shit is the old libertarian one;"the more government tries to regulate business, the more that business tries to regulate government".

There should be no such thing as "too big to fail".
_________________________
"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey

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#2601343 - 02/03/17 09:59 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
obslop Offline
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 4876
Loc: san diego, CA
warnings predating the above scenario were raised with the bush administration and ignored. too much money being made.

but this time is different, right?

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#2601345 - 02/03/17 10:05 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
obslop Offline
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 4876
Loc: san diego, CA

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#2601362 - 02/03/17 11:00 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
StuAzole Online   content
Miki Dora status
**

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 4235
This is good for me. Way to go Donnie!

And just think, all those Trump voters can get mortgages they can't afford and lose them to their lenders 2 years later. It's gunna be UGE.
_________________________
Bock you

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#2601368 - 02/03/17 11:34 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
GDaddy Online   sleepy
Duke status
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 17595
Loc: Carlsbad
If the feds weren't backstopping big business (notwithstanding the "in the name of the greater good" rationale) and if they more were aggressively arresting and criminally prosecuting the white collar crooks we could let the feds step back and allow the market to kill its own losers.

The moral hazard of bailing the assholes out on the basis that we can't afford for them to fail is that it disincentivizes them to exercise any reasonable degree of caution or restraint.

When it comes to federal prosecution the commercial concern that has billions in assets has the resources it takes to completely dominate the U.S. Justice Dept. in court. The rule of law favors the rich because they have the resources to seek out the loopholes and fabricate the degree of reasonable doubt that it takes to thwart a conviction.

Look at the sentencing for mortgage fraud just as an example; you can defraud a federally regulated banking institution by $1M and the sentence prolly won't be more than a couple years. And that's if the feds even take the case to begin with. That's just not enough of a deterrent. It's such a PITA to investigate and prosecute a white collar crime that the feds usually won't even bother with chasing a crook until the losses get into 7 figures.

This is why acting proactively to slow the crooks down from committing the crime in the first place will produce far more effective and more timely results than acting reactively to prosecute them after the fact. Particularly when those investigations are complaint driven, meaning there's already a victim. Justice delayed is justice denied.


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#2601370 - 02/03/17 11:42 PM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: the janitor]
GDaddy Online   sleepy
Duke status
**

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 17595
Loc: Carlsbad
Same thing with gutting the EPA. I'm no fan of the global warming theology but I wouldn't think it that controversial to want to continue to make improvements to air quality, water quality and water availability and the like - those concerns are all proximate to our quality of life regardless of our politics. Nobody here should want to see the U.S. backslide in those areas.

Law enforcement is a function of the Executive Branch - I want our federal government to effectively enforce the rule of law at all levels of society, right up to the 1%.

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#2601377 - 02/04/17 12:55 AM Re: Finally! Reforms coming to the financial markets [Re: GDaddy]
the janitor Online   mad
Phil Edwards status
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Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 7344
Loc: north of the bridge
agreed on the moral hazard, white collar crime stuff. The one thing I'd add is that while those firms have the resources to fight/delay hard in the courts, the PR front quickly becomes a problem. I think if the Federal Prosecutor in say, Manhattan builds a reputation for taking cases to trial and trotting out the dirty laundry, even if they lose the first case or two, this will make various boardrooms break out in hives and likely lead to changes in their behavior.


I loved the part in the video where Mr. Cohn said that the reason banks were not lending to businesses was because of the capital reserve requirements that Dodd Frank call for roflmao monkey

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