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#2524619 - 07/19/16 12:29 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
StuAzole Offline
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Registered: 01/22/16
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In fact, our nation's drug policies stem from racism in the first place - "negro fiends" were the poster children for criminalization of coke in the first place, Chinese creeps who were thought to be luring white women into opium dens in San Fransisco caused the opium ban, and "violent Mexicans" brought about the end of legal weed.


Edited by StuAzole (07/19/16 12:30 PM)
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#2524629 - 07/19/16 12:43 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: StuAzole]
ifallalot Offline
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Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 41098
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
In fact, our nation's drug policies stem from racism in the first place - "negro fiends" were the poster children for criminalization of coke in the first place, Chinese creeps who were thought to be luring white women into opium dens in San Fransisco caused the opium ban, and "violent Mexicans" brought about the end of legal weed.

100% fact
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#2524638 - 07/19/16 01:05 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: GromsDad]
trevorbc Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 1136
Loc: cold
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
[quote=casa_mugrienta]

Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.


So by that logic you agree with Michael Bloomberg banning big gulp soda in NYC right? Your consumption of large amounts of soda hurts your health, causes you to use more health care and drives up my costs. What about all of those uninsured people that go to Emergency Rooms when they get sick? Their lack of health insurance hurts me and my family. The government should make they have health care probably right? You heard it here first folks GromsDad supports Obamacare. I'm glad you've come around.

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#2524665 - 07/19/16 02:15 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: trevorbc]
casa_mugrienta Offline
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Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 9133
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Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
[quote=casa_mugrienta]

Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.


So by that logic you agree with Michael Bloomberg banning big gulp soda in NYC right? Your consumption of large amounts of soda hurts your health, causes you to use more health care and drives up my costs. What about all of those uninsured people that go to Emergency Rooms when they get sick? Their lack of health insurance hurts me and my family. The government should make they have health care probably right? You heard it here first folks GromsDad supports Obamacare. I'm glad you've come around.


Can you remove my name from that quote please?
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#2524678 - 07/19/16 03:01 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
GDaddy Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
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Race Relations / Gallup Historical Polls

It looks to me like we were doing okay well into Pres. Obama's 2nd term. It also looks like blacks thought it was worse that most other people prior to the last year but now think it's a little better than most other people.



A drop-off from the 70s to the mid-40s in such a short period of time is pretty dramatic. But the latest number on that graph is from Jan 2015. That was 18 months ago. Although not charted on the graph, a couple of the questions in the article have more recent responses.

For instance, one of the questions was "How about the state of race relations?"

for the responses indicting to "somewhat satisfied" the range from 2001-2014 was 39%-45%. But it dropped to 24% in 2015 and 01/2016. As well, the "very satisfied" went from 8% and 10% prior to 2015 and dropped to 6% in 2015 and 3% in 2016.

That's a significant decline in "satisfied". Not an improvement.

For the responses indicating to "very disappointed" the range from 2001-2014 was 10% - 14%, the mode (most common) being 13% and 14%. But it jumped to 30% in 2015 and increased to 34% as of their 01/2016 poll.

The numbers for "somewhat disappointed" didn't change significantly mostly 26-28% before vs 30% and 32% in 2015 and 2016. But I would guess there's relatively little overlap in the composition of that group in 2016 vs the periods prior to 2015. It's apparent that lots of people moved in from "somewhat satisfied" and lots of people moved out to one of the "dissatisfied" categories.

Regardless of the reasons why, it's apparent that these conditions have gotten much worse just in the last 2-3 years, not better. Call it a success or progress if you want, but that's not an assertion that the poll numbers support.







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#2524692 - 07/19/16 03:19 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: GromsDad]
Gnudz Offline
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Gnudz
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile in Baltimore.....a year later the prosecutor who tried to make a name for herself and the media that sensationalized it are 0-4 in proving that the cops committed a crime. But hey, CNN's numbers were up. shrug http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/18/baltimore-officer-learns-fate-in-gray-case/


From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Lieutenant Brian W. Rice, age 41, white, is a 17-year-veteran of the force.[23][24] Rice, who was promoted to lieutenant in 2011, is the highest-ranking officer charged in relation to Gray's death.[26] The Guardian reported that, in 2012, Rice had allegedly threatened to kill himself and the husband of his former partner. He had been hospitalized, reportedly, for a mental health evaluation and given an administrative suspension. The consequences of this threat included twice having his guns confiscated, and a restraining order on behalf of the husband of his former partner.[27] According to a police report obtained by The Guardian, Rice had also misused his position to order the arrest of his ex-girlfriend's husband as part of a personal dispute that took place two weeks before the incident.[28]


Sounds like a great guy.


What part of NOT GUILTY didn't you grasp?


You're the one who doesn't grasp it what NOT GUILTY means.

NOT GUILTY means NO ONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

And it happens all the time when the victim is a black man.
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#2524698 - 07/19/16 03:29 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: GromsDad]
Kento Offline
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Gnudz
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Meanwhile in Baltimore.....a year later the prosecutor who tried to make a name for herself and the media that sensationalized it are 0-4 in proving that the cops committed a crime. But hey, CNN's numbers were up. shrug http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/18/baltimore-officer-learns-fate-in-gray-case/


From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Lieutenant Brian W. Rice, age 41, white, is a 17-year-veteran of the force.[23][24] Rice, who was promoted to lieutenant in 2011, is the highest-ranking officer charged in relation to Gray's death.[26] The Guardian reported that, in 2012, Rice had allegedly threatened to kill himself and the husband of his former partner. He had been hospitalized, reportedly, for a mental health evaluation and given an administrative suspension. The consequences of this threat included twice having his guns confiscated, and a restraining order on behalf of the husband of his former partner.[27] According to a police report obtained by The Guardian, Rice had also misused his position to order the arrest of his ex-girlfriend's husband as part of a personal dispute that took place two weeks before the incident.[28]


Sounds like a great guy.


What part of NOT GUILTY didn't you grasp?


You told that to Fred Goldman after the OJ trial too, didn't you?


Did his mustache quiver?
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#2524699 - 07/19/16 03:29 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
GDaddy Offline
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Lots of criminals get off for lack of evidence or lack of even being identified. Blacks most of all, in terms of their representation in the population. Our legal system puts the burden of proof on the state. A tie always goes to the runner.

In the Freddie Gray cases the state has their suspects. What they don't have is the evidence it takes to prove a crime was committed. Counting all their various allegations, the state is now 0-24. Meaning, they can't even prove any of the lesser charges.


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#2524707 - 07/19/16 03:44 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: GDaddy]
Gnudz Offline
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Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Lots of criminals get off for lack of evidence or lack of even being identified. Blacks most of all, in terms of their representation in the population. Our legal system puts the burden of proof on the state. A tie always goes to the runner.

In the Freddie Gray cases the state has their suspects. What they don't have is the evidence it takes to prove a crime was committed. Counting all their various allegations, the state is now 0-24. Meaning, they can't even prove any of the lesser charges.



Yet Freddie Gray died as a result of injuries he suffered while in police custody, and no one is being held accountable.

If so many black people are being freed due to lack of evidence, one has to ask: Why are so many black people being arrested without any evidence in the first place?
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#2524718 - 07/19/16 04:01 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
GDaddy Offline
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A - There's "no evidence for an arrest" and then there's "insufficient evidence for a conviction". I'm sure you can understand the point that the two are not synonymous. Not every arrest SHOULD result in a conviction when the burden of evidence for both is different.

B - Lots of the crooks never even get arrested for lack of evidence, despite what the cops think they know of them. I can't even tell you how many assholes I had to let go for lack of evidence to support an arrest. I CAN tell you that I never made an arrest that was found - upon review by the DA office - to have lacked probable cause.

C - The people who end up in prisons are the ones who have gone through the judicial system. Many times they have agreed to plea bargain for lesser offenses, so they're not even serving the sentence for what they actually did.

D - Even so, blacks as a group really do get convicted of way more violent crime against others relative to their representation in the population - by which I am not referring to the oh-so-unfair drug laws.

E - The rates of black convictions for crimes of violence (not drug crimes) are actually higher than the rates of blacks being shot by police for any reason.

FBI crime statistics

U.S. census info on demographics in the U.S.

"The Guardian" count of police shootings, which lists a larger number of such shootings than the less complete counts from other sources.

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#2524720 - 07/19/16 04:03 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: Gnudz]
GDaddy Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 16329
Loc: Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: Gnudz
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Lots of criminals get off for lack of evidence or lack of even being identified. Blacks most of all, in terms of their representation in the population. Our legal system puts the burden of proof on the state. A tie always goes to the runner.

In the Freddie Gray cases the state has their suspects. What they don't have is the evidence it takes to prove a crime was committed. Counting all their various allegations, the state is now 0-24. Meaning, they can't even prove any of the lesser charges.



Yet Freddie Gray died as a result of injuries he suffered while in police custody, and no one is being held accountable.


[shrugs] Some people think the cops are responsible for his injuries, and some think he's responsible for his injuries. The state hasn't even gotten close to demonstrating the former to the exclusion of the latter. The only thing they did was treat him exactly the same way hundreds of other arrestees are treated every single day across the U.S. He wasn't seat belted into the back of a transport van because he was combative.

If that was such a crime then why aren't people dying every single week under those circumstances? Could it be because that's not the dominant reason for his injuries?

Career crook. Far more experienced than most people in the process of getting arrested, being transported and booked for a crime. There's no aspect of his arrest that he could claim to be ignorant of.



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#2524742 - 07/19/16 04:41 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
FecalFace Offline
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Registered: 11/21/08
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Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: trevorbc
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
[quote=casa_mugrienta]

Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.


So by that logic you agree with Michael Bloomberg banning big gulp soda in NYC right? Your consumption of large amounts of soda hurts your health, causes you to use more health care and drives up my costs. What about all of those uninsured people that go to Emergency Rooms when they get sick? Their lack of health insurance hurts me and my family. The government should make they have health care probably right? You heard it here first folks GromsDad supports Obamacare. I'm glad you've come around.


Can you remove my name from that quote please?


Good of you to admit that you don't care if your "freedom" hurts others.
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#2524750 - 07/19/16 04:53 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: GDaddy]
Gnudz Offline
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Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 4284
Loc: Jonestown
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
A - There's "no evidence for an arrest" and then there's "insufficient evidence for a conviction". I'm sure you can understand the point that the two are not synonymous. Not every arrest SHOULD result in a conviction when the burden of evidence for both is different.

B - Lots of the crooks never even get arrested for lack of evidence, despite what the cops think they know of them. I can't even tell you how many assholes I had to let go for lack of evidence to support an arrest. I CAN tell you that I never made an arrest that was found - upon review by the DA office - to have lacked probable cause.

C - The people who end up in prisons are the ones who have gone through the judicial system. Many times they have agreed to plea bargain for lesser offenses, so they're not even serving the sentence for what they actually did.

D - Even so, blacks as a group really do get convicted of way more violent crime against others relative to their representation in the population - by which I am not referring to the oh-so-unfair drug laws.

E - The rates of black convictions for crimes of violence (not drug crimes) are actually higher than the rates of blacks being shot by police for any reason.

FBI crime statistics

U.S. census info on demographics in the U.S.

"The Guardian" count of police shootings, which lists a larger number of such shootings than the less complete counts from other sources.



None of which addresses the too frequent instances of black men falling victim to law enforcement -whether due to malice, callous disregard, or just plain incompetence- and no one in law enforcement being held accountable.

I'm not denying the problem of black on black crime, nor do I believe the cops are responsible for all the cases that have made the news in the last few years, but I think they clearly are in the Freddie Gray case.

Freddie Gray was arrested for carrying what the cops said was "an illegal switchblade," which turned out to be a legal sized pocketknife. He never should have been arrested in the first place, yet he ended up dead in police custody.

I also believe a lot more black people end up getting pulled over, stopped, and even arrested without probable cause than white people do. The evidence backs that up, no?
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#2524777 - 07/19/16 05:32 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
Autoprax Offline
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[s][/s]Poor people are targeted by law enforcement because it's expensive to obey all the laws.

I feel sorry for the poor people of other colors who are not getting attention.

As a poor .25 Jew I feel like I need my time in the sun as a victim.



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#2524786 - 07/19/16 06:00 PM Re: "Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media [Re: casa_mugrienta]
sirfun Offline
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